Forums > Queen - General Discussion > Who wrote these songs?

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Cedric6014 user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Jul 07, 00:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

If I was to attribute the following songs to a band member, who would be the most appropriate?

Khashoggi’s Ship
May Baby Does Me
One Vision
Stone Cold Crazy
The Miracle
Was It All Worth It






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Posted: 13 Jul 07, 02:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Cedric6014 wrote:

If I was to attribute the following songs to a band member, who would be the most appropriate?

Khashoggi’s Ship
May Baby Does Me
One Vision
Stone Cold Crazy
The Miracle
Was It All Worth It







Khashoggi’s Ship -- Freddie, mostly
May Baby Does Me -- Freddie and John
One Vision -- Freddie, Brian, and Roger
Stone Cold Crazy -- Freddie, mostly
The Miracle -- Freddie
Was It All Worth It -- Freddie and Brian

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Posted: 13 Jul 07, 02:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

...White Lines On A Black Road...

who wrote that - huh?


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Posted: 13 Jul 07, 07:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yes, although actually 'Worth It' is more Freddie than Brian with some contributions from Roger, and 'Kashoggi's' is Fred's only regarding music - lyrics are a four-way split (reportedly the same thing happens with 'Miracle').


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 13 Jul 07, 08:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

one vision.

music- mainly Brian
words- mainly roger
arrangment- mainly freddie( also he changed alot of rogers words).

thats as far as i am aware, if anyone knows different and can correct me then please do.

cheers.

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Posted: 13 Jul 07, 08:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

You're right, and that's why IMO Fred shouldn't be counted as co-writer in 'One Vision'. Surely, he arranged and changed some ideas, but so did George Martin on 'Yesterday' but the song is still McCartney's; or Roger on 'No One But You', Brian on his 'All The Way From Memphis' cover or Fred himself on 'Magic' and 'Ga Ga'. All arrangers instead of co-writers.


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 13 Jul 07, 12:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:

You're right, and that's why IMO Fred shouldn't be counted as co-writer in 'One Vision'. Surely, he arranged and changed some ideas, but so did George Martin on 'Yesterday' but the song is still McCartney's; or Roger on 'No One But You', Brian on his 'All The Way From Memphis' cover or Fred himself on 'Magic' and 'Ga Ga'. All arrangers instead of co-writers.


I don't know if you've ever written a song, Sebastian, but if you have, you should know that whether or not an arranger deserves co-authorship depends from song to song. If an arrangement adds creatively to the song as a whole, the arranger should get credit (for example, Ravel arranging Debussy for orchestra, but also in a number of popular songs), if he/she didn't do much (such as my arranging Jean-Michel Jarre's 'Equinoxe' for a 7-piece rock-band [sorry, I can't think of anything better example right now] which leaves most of the song as it was), he/she shouldn't.


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Posted: 13 Jul 07, 13:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I have written songs, and I keep my point. George Martin orchestrated many Beatles tracks, but they're still Lennon's, McCartney's, Harrison's or Starkey's. Freddie Mercury changed loads of things in 'Radio Ga Ga' but, as he said, "it's still Roger's song". Valensia changed 'Liar' completely but it's still Mercury's, Guns N' Roses completely re-arranged 'Knockin' On Heaven's Door', added bass-part, guitar solos, a nice intro ... but the piece is still Bob Dylan's.

Of course everybody's entitled to their own opinion about the matter ... reportedly, John considered Fred's input in 'Pain Is So Close' and 'Friends Will Be Friends' enough for a co-credit, while 'A Hard Life' is credited solely to Mercury in spite of Brian's strong lyrical contributions and in spite of the (almost verbatim) quote on the intro. Some people give a co-credit for a single word (or note/chord/riff), some don't.

It seems obvious that the band considered 'One Vision' to be collaborative enough to be credited to them all (same as 'Stone Cold Crazy', God knows why), so all I'm giving here is a(nother) opinion, not intending to impose it to anybody. I have indeed arranged songs from friends, but I always reject a co-credit unless I've actually put an entire new section (like McCartney did for 'A Day In The Life').


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 13 Jul 07, 21:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Freddie will always be considered a co-composer of "One Vision" in my book. He added the timeless lyrics: "fried chicken."


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Posted: 14 Jul 07, 07:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thunderbolt<br><h6>Courtesy of God wrote:

Freddie will always be considered a co-composer of "One Vision" in my book. He added the timeless lyrics: "fried chicken."


Wasn't that Jim Hutton?


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 14 Jul 07, 10:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:

Thunderbolt<br><h6>Courtesy of God wrote:

Freddie will always be considered a co-composer of "One Vision" in my book. He added the timeless lyrics: "fried chicken."


Wasn't that Jim Hutton?


I believe it was. Also, I believe there's a difference between a composer and a lyricist.

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Posted: 15 Jul 07, 20:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

i think the real question is:

who cares?


your words. not mine.
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Posted: 15 Jul 07, 23:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

~im a fool~ wrote:

i think the real question is:

who cares?


Many of us do, clearly... as we're adding to the discussion. If you don't, then that's fine. Leave us be.

Very interesting discussion, guys. In my opinion, composition and arrangement are equal, and thus arrangement should deserve equal credit... although it rarely gets it.



"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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Posted: 16 Jul 07, 00:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

~im a fool~ wrote:

i think the real question is:

who cares?


A lot of people and unlike many threads that I've said that on - I care.


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Posted: 16 Jul 07, 08:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:Very interesting discussion, guys. In my opinion, composition and arrangement are equal, and thus arrangement should deserve equal credit... although it rarely gets it.



Interesting point, which I partially share. Generally, popular music's essentially oblivious about the importance of arrangements, while classical and jazz gives the deserved consideration to them (and more to the point, to the creative force behind).


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 16 Jul 07, 11:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:

Very interesting discussion, guys. In my opinion, composition and arrangement are equal, and thus arrangement should deserve equal credit... although it rarely gets it.


Interesting point, which I partially share. Generally, popular music's essentially oblivious about the importance of arrangements, while classical and jazz gives the deserved consideration to them (and more to the point, to the creative force behind).


Yep... agreed.



"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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Posted: 17 Jul 07, 09:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:

Sebastian wrote:

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:

Very interesting discussion, guys. In my opinion, composition and arrangement are equal, and thus arrangement should deserve equal credit... although it rarely gets it.


Interesting point, which I partially share. Generally, popular music's essentially oblivious about the importance of arrangements, while classical and jazz gives the deserved consideration to them (and more to the point, to the creative force behind).


Yep... agreed.


I think that might be to do with the fact that, usually, jazz- and classical musicians/composers have far more technical understanding of the process of making music than those in the pop/rock area. And I'm not referring to technical proficiency in playing or composition, but more to musical philosophy.


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Posted: 17 Jul 07, 10:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6>
Very interesting discussion, guys. In my opinion, composition and arrangement are equal, and thus arrangement should deserve equal credit... although it rarely gets it.



Touché!!

Exactlly my opinion. If people don´t guive credit, that doesn´t mean it´s ok.

I understand that people often see arrangement as "put some cloths on the body". The chords are already there, so the arranger only has to add some instruments here and there! Well, in some cases i agree ; ) but when the arrangement elevates the song to another level, then i think that a co-credit wouldn´t harm.

Examples:

Michael Kamen on "Who wants to live forever";

George Martin on some of the Beatles stuff;

Freddie Mercury on Radio GaGA (when i hear this song and compare it to "Love Kills" i wonder how much of the music and song structure is really Roger´s- and without Freddie this would probably be just another Queen song);

Now, then there are cases when i think it´s insultuous to have royalties (because that´s what were´re really talking about). And the number one slot goes to :

Sting on "Money for Nothing" by Dire Starits.

Well, Sting only sanged a few words. He didn´t write nothing, and Still his publishing company insisted on co-writing credits (50% ??-need confirmation here). Well, at least Sting was embarassed (yeah, right!):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_for_Nothing_(song)

Take care

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Posted: 17 Jul 07, 14:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

> but when the arrangement elevates the song to another level, then i think that a co-credit wouldn´t harm.

Same thing with performance for that matter. What I think is that each song should have "music by ..., lyrics by ... arrangement by ...".

> George Martin on some of the Beatles stuff;

Over half actually :)

Listen to 'Yesterday' by Boys II Men: nearly 80% is new! Yet the song is still McCartney's. Or the much cited 'Knocking' by GnR (or by many others).

Otoh, many hip-hop artists give credit to anybody who's contributed with anything. Quite a different philosophy.


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 17 Jul 07, 15:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:

> What I think is that each song should have "music by ..., lyrics by ... arrangement by ...".


Funny you said that 'cos this is exactly how things are up here in Finland. I can't remember I've ever seen a Finnish album that doesn't give credits to the arranger(s). So, maybe it's a cultural difference, different tradition on giving credits... or maybe it's got something to do with fact that we have relatively small domestic markets up here... dunno really. But I've always wondered about that...