Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > YOUR wrong things about queen's songs.

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Bigbrotherbp user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 14 Jul 07, 06:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Rely on my last post about first image of Queen, now I would like to ask what did you think about "who sings it, who plays it?".

I thought Brian and Freddie were all lead singers. Brian was a Bariton - Bass. And Freddie was a Tenor. When I listened to WWRY, I thought that was Brian's singing :D


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Posted: 14 Jul 07, 07:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The three of them were tenors. And as a matter of fact Freddie could go lower than Dr May (it was Fred who did the lowest bits in 'Bo Rhap', 'Somebody To Love', 'Flick Of The Wrist' and 'All Dead').


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 14 Jul 07, 12:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

That might be to do with the fact that Freddie could actually sing, whilst Brian just hums in tune, basically.


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Posted: 14 Jul 07, 12:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote:

That might be to do with the fact that Freddie could actually sing, whilst Brian just hums in tune, basically.

Thats absolute and utter rubish, listen to the last verse of Mother Love.
Brian can definately sing.


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Posted: 15 Jul 07, 18:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:

The three of them were tenors. And as a matter of fact Freddie could go lower than Dr May (it was Fred who did the lowest bits in 'Bo Rhap', 'Somebody To Love', 'Flick Of The Wrist' and 'All Dead').


here we go again.

"three of them were tenors"

NOPE! just because thats your opinion, it doesn't make it true.
do your research!

But i cant be fucked to argue about this anymore! its pointless! i guess some people will believe what they WANT to believe... wrong or not.


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Posted: 16 Jul 07, 04:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Please humour us and explain. Otherwise you might as well not comment

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Posted: 16 Jul 07, 07:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

inmydefence wrote:

Sebastian wrote:

The three of them were tenors. And as a matter of fact Freddie could go lower than Dr May (it was Fred who did the lowest bits in 'Bo Rhap', 'Somebody To Love', 'Flick Of The Wrist' and 'All Dead').


here we go again.

"three of them were tenors"

NOPE! just because thats your opinion, it doesn't make it true.
do your research!

But i cant be fucked to argue about this anymore! its pointless! i guess some people will believe what they WANT to believe... wrong or not.


That actually made me laugh here... "Do your research". Have you ever cared to read his website? I can't think of anyone who's done a better research on the subject than him. His website offers information about who wrote/co-wrote each song, who played each instrument in every song, etc, etc.

I think you should think twice before saying "do your research" to someone who's already e-mailed Brian to get information to make his research more complete.

Why don't you share some of YOUR research with us?


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Posted: 16 Jul 07, 07:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Even though I don't agree on everything Sebastian thinks (mainly it's about Freddie coming up with the borhap solo, and that John sings backing vocals on studio albums) you can't say he doesn't know his stuff or that he didn't do his research.

Thats just ignorant. Look at his website if you need proof


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Posted: 16 Jul 07, 08:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Anyway, this thread isn't about my credibility (or lack of it), it's about the voices of Roger, Freddie and Brian, the three of which were obviously tenors.

Listen to Brian's superb falsetto in 'Under Pressure' or 'Teo Torriatte' during the tour with Paul, or to Roger's effortless high E in 'More Of That Jazz' (done without falsetto), or Freddie's powerful bits in 'Show Must Go On' ... no bass or baritone can do those notes with such ease.

Likewise, even though the three of them could sing quite low (and not only Brian and/or Freddie as many tend to believe), their high range was/is notably stronger. When Fred sang as a baritone (e.g. 'Ensueño') he was indeed "humming" or "whispering" in tune, rather than actually singing.

PS: Some things can be classified as opinions, but not all of them: one person may think Michael Owen's a better player than David Beckham, and another person may think otherwise. Those are opinions. Otoh, Owen's height is 5' 8", while Beckham's is 6", so it's a fact that the Posh consort is taller.


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 16 Jul 07, 13:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

" Please humour us and explain. Otherwise you might as well not comment"

i wasn't aware it needed an explanation as its been discussed on queenzone so often.

But ok.....

Roger was a tenor. never disputed that. i simply said the statement "the three of them were tenors" is false. roger definately was (though I think he lacks alot of the vocal qualities that make most tenors so great to listen to).
brian and freddie were NOT.

Don't get me wrong, I like Seb's site. i think its great.
but cataloging every queen concert does not consitute research into freddie's voice.
I didn't mean to appear disrespectful but it irritates me that members of queenzone, especially ones as respected ad Seb, state things like that as FACT, when IF you research THE SUBJECT IN QUESTION is soon clear to see that Freddie and Brian were baritones.
It doesn't mean they weren't great singers, or that they couldn't force they voices into the tenor range if needed. it simply means tenor is not their natural range. and there's no shame in that!

THIS is research into freddie's voice.

www.f-mercury.com.ar

it also states that freddie and brian were both baritones.

Montserrat Caballé also said freddie is a baritone, and if she isn't experience enough to know about vocal classification then nobody is.
What more research do you need?



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Posted: 16 Jul 07, 14:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

> Don't get me wrong, I like Seb's site. i think its great. but cataloging every queen concert does not consitute research into freddie's voice.

QueenConcerts isn't my website. And yes, you're right that I haven't done a deep research on Freddie's voice, but enough to be sure he was a tenor.

> it irritates me that members of queenzone, especially ones as respected ad Seb, state things like that as FACT

Yes and no ... it's not a matter of "I said so, thus it's a fact"; it's a matter of "20 years of recordings with Freddie's voice (live and in the studio) prove that Fred being a tenor is a fact".

> It doesn't mean they weren't great singers, or that they couldn't force they voices into the tenor range if needed.

It's quite the opposite: Freddie and Brian (and Roger for that matter) were tenors who could cover baritone (or even bass) range for some extent.

> it simply means tenor is not their natural range. and there's no shame in that!

Of course not, but it's not a matter of "shame". Freddie and Brian were tenors, not baritones. And it's not me who's saying that, but loads of recordings.

> www.f-mercury.com.ar
>it also states that freddie and brian were both baritones.

Yes, but otoh it mentions (http://www.f-mercury.com.ar/eng_classification.htm) a tenor's normal extension as being between the C below middle and the C above. If you listen to Brian's range (on his solo tours or when he sings lead on the Brian + Roger + Paul gigs) it corresponds more to that, than baritone (even though he could cover baritone notes as well). Freddie, in contrast, did sing live on a more baritone range, but it was more related with his nodules and his (imperfect) technique than with his (allegedly baritone) range.

> Montserrat Caballé also said freddie is a baritone

Yes, and I *had* supported such affirmation based on that comment, but I'm glad to have been corrected and now I've "joined" the "Fred was a tenor" group, because it's clear that he was.

Otoh we must keep in mind that it's not that Montserrat said that. It's more something along the lines of "Peter Freestone (or was it David Richards?) said that Montsy had told Freddie to 'sing in his natural baritone for the first time on a recording'". It's not that I'm discrediting Phoebe or Montserrat (or anybody whose opinion doesn't match mine), but I really think that we should take these kind of quotes with care. I'm not calling Phoebe a liar, but couldn't he have unintentionally misremembered the exact wording after seventeen years?

> and if she isn't experience enough to know about vocal classification then nobody is.

Actually, I disagree here: the fact she's an extraordinary singer doesn't mean she's necessarily a voice classifier. Besides, as we've confirmed here, it's not *that* easy to label (at least in this case), so perhaps she thought he was a baritone (assuming that Phoebe's comment is accurate and that he didn't misremember or that there weren't any "Chinese whispers" involved).

It's, again, not a matter of "the superb bel-canto diva" vs "a narrow-minded QZ poster", it's a matter of "a (possibly misquoted) deduction from a (possibly misquoted) comment that a (possibly misquoted) person did after listening to Freddie's (possibly misleading) large range" vs "over fifteen albums as part of Queen + one solo album + one duet album + several collaborations, proving that Fred's voice was indeed that of a tenor".


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 16 Jul 07, 15:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

possibly possibly possibly. well You're entitled to believe what you like.
the Webmaster of that site is a professor of music. so im pretty sure he knows his stuff.
the quote is from an interview with Montserrat Caballé which i believe is in the FM 10 disc box set.

its here also on this website

http://www.mercury-and-queen.com/allround.htm

anyway, we could argue about this all we like, I'll take my information from what hard evidence is available. Andres' site and the NUMEROUS other that quote it as a highly reliable source, and you believe the opposite because of what you hear on all these numerous albums.

I'm not convinced you are correctly interpreting what you're hearing as you said you haven't studied vocal technique. in the grand scheme of things it makes no difference. i only considered it necessary to respond to correct your erroneous "fact".


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Posted: 16 Jul 07, 21:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I didn't say I haven't made a research on vocal technique, I said I haven't made a thorough research on Freddie's vocal technique.

Anyway, I do concede that this discussion hasn't got an *obvious* consequence. It's like... a person who's 6 1/2 ft is obviously tall, but a person who's 5' 8" may be "tall" according to some parameters, "average" according to others.

I still consider Freddie to be a tenor in spite of Andres' research (which IMO has been admirable in most departments, but not in this one), and in spite of Montserrat's quote (which I didn't know could be found on the Boxset, so I apologise for that).


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 17 Jul 07, 02:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Listen to Brian's superb falsetto in 'Under Pressure' or 'Teo Torriatte' during the tour with Paul"

Woah, what the?!? I thought you hadn't listened to any of that stuff!! :P

"That might be to do with the fact that Freddie could actually sing, whilst Brian just hums in tune, basically."

Ey??
I've always thought that Brian was a really great singer with a poor instrument (poor for the things he occasionally tries to do with it, at least).


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Posted: 17 Jul 07, 08:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Zebonka12 wrote:

Woah, what the?!? I thought you hadn't listened to any of that stuff!! :P


I hadn't until last week. Then I watched some videos in YouTube and loved them. 'I Want It All' sounds fantastic, so do 'Pressure', 'Teo' and 'Imagine', and 'Champions' is much better than when the true Queen did it.

So I'm even stronger in my point than I was before: Roger + Brian + Paul is an extraordinary combination, so they should really write a new chapter in music. And of course, new chapter means a new name instead of pathetically living off the past.


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 17 Jul 07, 10:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian, how do you feel about The Beatles?

Afterall Ringo wasn't their first drummer. Pete Best drummed on the Love Me Do record.

Also, what about Pink Floyd? After Syd left they started to make horrible music?

After Peter Gabriel Phil Collins took the Lead Vocals in Genesis

After Axl left, came back, left came back, kicked out the band he still plays under the name of Guns 'n Roses, but with completely different members.


I never heard a Pink Floyd fan say 'hmm.. no it's not really Pink Floyd anymore, it's just David and that other guy' Or a Genesisfan say 'no, I don't think they should use the Genesis name anymore'

Why would a band stop using a name, which is a trademark, they used for over 30 years.
Should a Multinational Company change it name when one of the presidents dies or leaves?


Mozart CDs are sold, without anyone whining that it's not really Mozart playing


"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



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Posted: 17 Jul 07, 11:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

FriedChicken<br><font size=1>The Almighty</font> wrote:

Afterall Ringo wasn't their first drummer. Pete Best drummed on the Love Me Do record.


Minor correction -- session drummer Andy White drummed on their first single, 'Love Me Do' and 'P.S. I Love You'. Pete Best recorded a few songs with The Beatles at Abbey Road Studios, but they were only released on the first Anthology set in 1995.

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Posted: 17 Jul 07, 12:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Fried Chicken, my Almighty one, I know that you asked your question to Sebastian about the Beatles and Floyd et al going on without a group member, but here's my thoughts as I've posted before about Queen without Freddie.

On other elite bands going froward without an original member:

"Of the elite bands, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Genesis, Pink Floyd, Van Halen, Guns n Roses and The Rolling Stones and AC/DC were all relatively young men and basically hitting their musical primes when they brought in new members. They were musicians with careers and bills to pay and needed to make the changes to keep their careers going. For example, both Pink Floyd and Genesis were hardly superstar bands (creatively superb, sales wise, no way) when Syd Barrett and Peter Gabriel left the respective bands."

Why is Queen different than these bands?

"Freddie Mercury brought a lot of 'arguably' to the table. He wrote what was 'arguably' the greatest song of the 20th century, he wrote what is 'arguably' the greatest sports anthem of all time, he was 'arguably' the greatest singer of the rock era, he was 'arguably' the most diverse, and successfully diverse writer of the rock era, he was 'arguably' the greatest front man of all time, and he 'arguably' delivered the greatest performance from a rock star (a la Hendrix at Woodstock) of his generation at Live Aid. Remember also, Freddie named Queen. there is a connotation with the name Queen. Regal, majestic, pomp and circumstance. I don't see the same connotation with the names Genesis, The Beatles, or Pink Floyd. In THAT sense of bringing the style to Queen, Freddie was Queen."

Just my opinions, as I've said before, some people will accept it, others won't and it's not for any of us to choose. I believe that Freddie embodied what Queen was all about more than any other ex/dead member, and the only guy who I think brings close to the same is Slash as the danger side of Guns n Roses. Irreplaceable, and Axl can call it what he wants but it's turned into a joke.




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Posted: 17 Jul 07, 12:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

VERY WRONG THING: Those synth sounds that sound like a spaceship on 'Play The Game'.

It ruined the song for me. Makes me wish they never asked Mack to produce their albums.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
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Posted: 17 Jul 07, 12:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

the clearest sign as to whether or not someone is a tenor is how comfortable their voice is in their high range and their ability to sing with colour and feeling in this range, WITHOUT resorting to fasetto.
having good falsetto doesn't mean anything, because baritones can often sing falsetto a lot better than a tenor as tenors tend not to need falsetto.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/28/1025232/Michael%20Crawford%20Ab3.mp3

this is a shining example of a tenor's ability. no falsetto here. Neither brian or roger have done this controlled live or in studio.

which is why I, and many other people believe the contrary to you.