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AspiringPhilosophe user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 11 Aug 07, 11:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20221295/

Discuss.


Formerly MHG
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Posted: 11 Aug 07, 12:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Church and religion.
The most fucked up aspect of Humankind.


MY GOD spell it write.
its_a_hard_life 26994 user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 11 Aug 07, 12:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

These things make me MAD.



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Posted: 11 Aug 07, 12:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

First of all, if a gay member of my family passed on, the last thing I'd do is look to the church - whatever denomination it might be - to bring me closure. Gay = sin. It's nothing new. Why would the family think this man's life or soul would be respected by those people?

Beyond that, I have to say I laughed at this comment - “Even though we could not condone that lifestyle, we went above and beyond for the family through many acts of love and kindness,”

Above and beyond? Through many acts of love and kindness? Isn't that what the church is for? Isn't that what they're supposed to do? Offer love and kindness in times of need? Or is it that they went above and beyond in THIS case - this case of a dead GAY guy?

Pathetic.

And of course, it makes sense, doesn't it, that they'd block the guy's access to heaven through their blessed doors because of photos of him with men “engaging in clear affection, kissing and embracing.” I mean, really. What was this family thinking?! They should have instead supplied photos of the deceased in full military uniform - guns and grenades included. Now THAT would have gained him access. But affection? Pfffffft.

I wish the family hadn't approached things this way. It just gave the church another outlet for its arrogance. To make the holier-than-thou folk think they matter at all is a mistake. Sadly, enough people have yet to realize what a manipulative joke the whole idea of a holy sendoff is.

Separately, I think the circumstances under which this man died are so very sad. He underwent surgery to prepare him for a heart transplant and died of an infection from that surgery. Things like that shouldn't happen in today's world. Sadly, it happens more often than we know.

R.I.P. Mr. Sinclair. Say hi to Freddie for us, will ya? ;-)


"The others don't like my interviews. And frankly, I don't care much for theirs." ~ Freddie Mercury



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Posted: 11 Aug 07, 13:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Absolutely terrible. I wonder if the service would have taken place if for instance the "sin" would have been illegal drug overdose? Killed while driving drunk? Or being shot while committing a robbery? That poor family.

edit* "Its not that we didn't love the family"???? Get real.


-If you want the best seat in the house, you have to move the cat.





AspiringPhilosophe user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 11 Aug 07, 13:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As usual, Janet and Magical...you take the words right out of my mouth.
I liked that line as well. Yes, we did what we could out of kindness and love of humanity, but giving the guy a proper funeral is not an option because of something he had no control over? Pfft.
I still see Catholics get funerals that commit suicide...supposedly one of the worst sins you can commit.


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Posted: 11 Aug 07, 13:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

this is why i want to be carried by 6 buxom wrench's to the end of the pier and dumped over the side and fed to the mackeral or the basking shark cleverly disguised as a great white.if a priest gets anywhere near me when im dead im gonna come back and haunt however lets it happen.

ive said it before and i'll say it again.
"theres no place for religion in modern society"


isnt innuendo an italian suppository?

im gonna ride the wild wind!

its_a_hard_life wrote:you nutcase you rule!

joxer replies: but in a nice way :-]

-fatty- 2850 user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 12 Aug 07, 05:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

My dad died recently and my older brother who organised the funeral said that in accordance with my dad's wishes it was to be a humorous service. I thought that was an excellent idea as my dad enjoyed a good laugh. After the funeral (which didn't contain one single joke) I went up to my brother and told him that although it was a lovely service, I wasn't exactly doubled up with laughter. He looked at me as though I was off my nut and said that funerals weren't supposed to be funny. "I thought you said it was going to be a humorous service" I said, to which he replied "I said it was going to be a humanist service you cloth eared twat."

fatty.

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Posted: 12 Aug 07, 13:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

...


"The tri-tone is the Devil's interval, and he demands resolution." - Richard Lloyd
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Posted: 12 Aug 07, 15:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

hmmm concervative assholes. I hate it when people use "The God Band Aid" to jusify their prejudice. I also hate it when people come up with bullshit excuses instead of just accepting and loving people for who they are...and being gay isnt a lifestyle its a orientation...or so dr.phil says.=P


Punishing shaft since 2007.
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Posted: 13 Aug 07, 21:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

And that is why I don't go to church!


WE EXCHANGE ANYTHING - BICYCLES, WASHING MACHINES ETC. WHY NOT BRING YOUR WIFE ALONG AND GET A WONDERFUL BARGAIN?
Micrówave user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 14 Aug 07, 13:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Okay, you all are attacking "The Church" and "religion".

At least some of you read the words:

"at the nondenominational High Point Church "

So what religion or church are you attacking?

Idiots have started their own churches for years and years now. Being in Texas, we've got some real doozies right here. You all remember Waco. Another story a few years ago... They were shutting down the adult bookstores and adult businesses in a certain section of Dallas. To avoid being closed up, one owner applied and received exemption from the State because he simply changed the definition of his business and called it a private church.

If anything, we should be putting a stop to non-denominational churces and then tax the whole lot!!!

Maybe if the gay Navy officer had joined a real church, he would've have gotten a proper burial. I'm not even in the Navy, but I'd take the burial at sea anyday. No mess to clean and everybody gets a nice cruise.

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Posted: 14 Aug 07, 13:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Micrówave wrote:

So what religion or church are you attacking?


Every single one - no exceptions.


"The others don't like my interviews. And frankly, I don't care much for theirs." ~ Freddie Mercury



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Posted: 14 Aug 07, 13:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

A nondenominational church simply means it has no direct ties to a larger organization. For a megachurch, that means that whatever funds and ministries the have, they control without others infringing upon them. For members, that means they join a church without any of the baggage of being labeled "Baptist" or "Presbyterian."

The idea that a nondenominational church is non-Christian is misleading - most are as Christian as any other church; otherwise we would list them as "cults."



DJ's the man we love the most
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Posted: 14 Aug 07, 13:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Maz wrote:

A nondenominational church simply means it has no direct ties to a larger organization. For a megachurch, that means that whatever funds and ministries the have, they control without others infringing upon them. For members, that means they join a church without any of the baggage of being labeled "Baptist" or "Presbyterian."

The idea that a nondenominational church is non-Christian is misleading - most are as Christian as any other church; otherwise we would list them as "cults."

Incorrect, sir. The Branch Davidians were christians, but we labled them a "cult" and then burned 'em out.

magicalfreddiemercury wrote:

Micrówave wrote:

So what religion or church are you attacking?


Every single one - no exceptions.


Yep. Tax 'em. Hit 'em where it hurts.

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Posted: 14 Aug 07, 14:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Misleading, ma'am. David Koresh broke away from mainstream Christian values, including the use of polygamy and sexual abuse, thus the label of "cult." To label Branch Davidians as the same as mainstream Christians is simply incorrect.

The term "nondenominational megachurches" refers more to Ted Haggard or Joel Osteen churches - massive churches whose values reflect mainstream denominations yet who also adhere to no organizational or episcopal oversight like your local First Baptist Church of *insert town name here*.


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Posted: 14 Aug 07, 14:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Maz wrote:

Misleading, ma'am.


:-D

AspiringPhilosophe user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 14 Aug 07, 15:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

magicalfreddiemercury wrote:

Micrówave wrote:
So what religion or church are you attacking?

Every single one - no exceptions.

Yep. Tax 'em. Hit 'em where it hurts.

Believe me, there are some churches that I definitely want to loose their tax exempt status, as they have forayed too far into the world of politics. However, taxing them means government recognition of churches. While this in and of itself is not a problem, there are various issues that would come up: 1) How do you define a church?
2) Would they be taxed based on a flat rate or number of members?
3) Would only "churches" be taxed? What about temples, synagogs, mosques and other forms of "Holy Ground"?
4) Could the government guarantee that it would tax all religious institutions fairly and not give preference to other ones?
I don't know about you, but I don't trust the government as far as I can throw them, especially with something like the handling of money and fairness and equality....they've consistently proven themselves inept at the best, dismal at the worst.
Not to mention the old issue of the "Separation of Church and State"...and before people crawl all over me, yes I KNOW it's not in the Constitution, and actually is an implied creation of a personal letter of Thomas Jefferson...no where is it guaranteed. But as many of you know, there are many laws that we have because they are "implied" in basis, as opposed to actually stated. This could safely be included in that number as Jefferson did say he thought it was a good idea and it is a written law that there should be freedom of religion; it doesn't take a great leap of logic to see that the Founding Fathers would have agreed that an incorporation of Church and State would lead to preferential treatment...and thereby violate the "Freedom of Religion" idea they saw as important enough to write down.
But the issue here was the fact that this church used Christian values (they described themselves as Christians, so that's their judgment, not mine) to deny this man a memorial service because some ancient piece of literature said that he was evil for something that he couldn't control. Whether or not he was a member of this church is a moot point...remember that he's dead. Memorial services are for the FAMILY and FRIENDS, not for the dead person...they don't care. His family wanted a service to honor his memory, and they were turned down because of who he was....a negative value judgment if ever I saw one. I could get into the hypocrisies with that viewpoint, but I'm pretty sure it's been expressed before.


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Posted: 14 Aug 07, 15:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Wow. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. I simply meant tax any incoming funds. Doesn't matter how many people belong, it's the money channelling that is the problem. Make them accountable for every penny brought in and every donation paid out.

And yes, Maz, that was funny. But more seriously to your point. The Catholic church just paid out a settlement for acts that were similar to your examples. Does that put them in the same boat as koresh now?

Isn't a "Unity" church non-denominational? I went to one once were the "preacher" was also a prophet and had visions of the future. Felt like a cult to me. The only thing missing were funny robes for all to wear.

Point is, I think it's unfair to attack religion and churches because of something that one "supposed" church did. I simply do not recognize it as such. I also think this is just another case where a certain interest group (you know who!) finds a platform against tyranny (religion & The Church), where it is really not that big of a deal. There's just as much blame to pass around here, the church, the mom, the sailor, etc.

If you're an elementary school teacher and you just decide to come out, don't you think there's gonna be a little backlash? Or should Mom be allowed to display Junior's first orgy on his My-Life-In-Pictures memories?

AspiringPhilosophe user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 14 Aug 07, 15:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Taxing still requires recognition...you can't tax something you don't recognize.
Therein lies the problem. Though I know what you mean...I would LOVE to know where those donations disappear to, and what (if any) good they are doing.


Formerly MHG