Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Petition: Golder’s Green – Official release?

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John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
John S Stuart
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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 04:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=1037717

Queen Archivist wrote:

...NO WE DO NOT HAVE THE GOLDERS GREEN CONCERT IN FULL IN THE ARCHIVE, ON A DECENT FORMAT, NOT THAT I CAN RECALL ANYWAY, AND NOT THAT I HAVE SEEN OR HEARD IN RECENT YEARS, BUT YES PLEASE WE WOULD LIKE IT - OBVIOUSLY WE WOULD - BUT NOT IF THERE ARE STRINGS ATTACHED, OR CONDITIONS, OR IN SUPPLYING A COPY WE PROVIDE AN OPPORTUNITY, AGAIN, FOR ANYONE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT LOST THINGS FROM YEARS AGO WHICH HAVE NO BEARING ON ANYTHING IN 2007, OR TO THE GOLDERS GREEN GIG. YES WE'D LOVE A COPY. YES PLEASE. BRING IT ON...


http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_post_message.aspx?Q_FORUM_NAME=&Q_FORUM_ID=0&TOPIC_SUBJECT=&Q_FORUM_TOPIC_ID=1027435&Q_FORUM_TOPIC_QUOTE_ID=1027595

John S Stuart wrote:

...I have both the (FULL UNEDITED) BBC master AND the LP versions - but as far as I am aware - Queen Productions are already aware of this... If it is truely the case that QP do NOT have a 'master copy', I would certainly offer it up - provided certain caveats were in place.


This is the first time I have started a separate thread in a long time, so forgive me if it overlaps with any others - but I thought this merited a separate discussion in its own right.

I have no hidden agenda, no cards up my sleeve, no ulterior motives – no reason other than to gauge the public opinion of Queenzone. (I know a poll would have been better, but I am not PC literate enough to design one).

If it was possible for Queen Productions to Officially release ‘Golder’s Green’ as a quality audio CD product, would you be interested in buying a copy?
Or - am I really that out of touch with 'public' opinion', by insisting that a few caveats should be in place to protect both parties before any such disc could be produced?

As I said, no hidden agenda, just a simple question to set my own moral compass by.


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
Zak Royen user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 04:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yes I definitely would.


"I can't play the game of life to win"
Freddie May user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 04:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Me too

John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 04:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

That was quick Zak - you caught me mid cut 'n paste there - but thanks for your prompt reply!


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 04:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Definitely.

There is obviously demand among Queen fans for these things. The "share the music" section of this website proves that, with people willing to spend hours or days downloading files, creating cover art etc. They do this for bootleg concerts that are usually poor quality. Queen could make a fair amount of money (and let's face it, that's ALL they are interested in)by releasing offical soundboard concerts and satisfy fan demand.* Pearl Jam have proved that this can be done sucessfully.

* I don't count the "offical" downloads available from Queen Productions -- who in their right mind would pay for poor quality concerts that are available free on fan websites?




"With a population of 1.75 million, Northern Ireland should really be a footballing minnow. Instead, they could be better described as the piranhas of the international game" (FIFA.com)
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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 05:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The idea is great! I guess we have a chance to make it happen, provided QP/GB will aknoweledge the fact that so far they have been missing the opportunity.

Cheers

pittrek user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 05:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hello John, can I ask a couple of questions ?

1. When you say you have the unedited BBC master tape, does it mean it is longer that the QDA bootleg "Queen will be crowned" ?
2. Is even on the master tape Freddie's voice sounding so "distant" ?
3. I fully agree that this concert DOES deserve a proper CD release, and I would buy it more happy than the Montreal gig, BUT ...

... what about putting pressure on QP to release ALL BBC sessions ? The 6 studio sessions plus the 2 live "sessions" - Golders Green and Hammy 75 ? Releasing ONLY GG 73 would be ONLY "good", I believe that a 3-4 CD box containing EVERYTHING would achieve much better selling results

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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 06:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Golders Green, why not.I would buy it, has to be better than Montreal.

Why not go further and try and get the fabled unreleased/demoes released.


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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 06:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

pittrek wrote:

Hello John, can I ask a couple of questions ?

1. When you say you have the unedited BBC master tape, does it mean it is longer that the QDA bootleg "Queen will be crowned" ?
2. Is even on the master tape Freddie's voice sounding so "distant" ?
3. I fully agree that this concert DOES deserve a proper CD release, and I would buy it more happy than the Montreal gig, BUT ...

... what about putting pressure on QP to release ALL BBC sessions ? The 6 studio sessions plus the 2 live "sessions" - Golders Green and Hammy 75 ? Releasing ONLY GG 73 would be ONLY "good", I believe that a 3-4 CD box containing EVERYTHING would achieve much better selling results
Great idea!That would be a wonderful set!


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YourValentine user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 06:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I would certainly buy it. Unless of course it's full of DRM and does not meet audio CD standards. I do not buy such intentionally deteriorated products.


I do not want any google ads here.

John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 06:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

pittrek wrote:

Hello John, can I ask a couple of questions ?

1. When you say you have the unedited BBC master tape, does it mean it is longer that the QDA bootleg "Queen will be crowned" ?
2. Is even on the master tape Freddie's voice sounding so "distant" ?
3. I fully agree that this concert DOES deserve a proper CD release, and I would buy it more happy than the Montreal gig, BUT ...

... what about putting pressure on QP to release ALL BBC sessions ? The 6 studio sessions plus the 2 live "sessions" - Golders Green and Hammy 75 ? Releasing ONLY GG 73 would be ONLY "good", I believe that a 3-4 CD box containing EVERYTHING would achieve much better selling results


In order - 1: not musically, but longer intro and commentary, 2: Yes, but the sound quality is far superior even to the 'Queen Will Be Crowned' Bootleg.

The reason I focused in on 'Golders Green', (and to a lesser extent 'Hammersmith 1975') is that I OWN those particular 'MASTER' tapes, so I know that they exist in perfect audio quality, and could make excellent CD releases. As for the other concerts you suggest, I do not own those. (Except ofcourse in bootleg for like everyone else).


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 07:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As stated at the top of the page, this thread was (genuinely) written to help me recalibrate my own moral compass...

Can I therefore say thank-you to Greg for helping realign this for me.
(Sorry for jumping between pages):

http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=1037717

John S Stuart wrote:

Queen Archivist wrote:

Nobody could ever say that you are not always trying... very trying.


And genuine fans wonder why collectors do NOT wish to share their treasures with QPL...
I always found it unfair that we were the one's accused of hoarding our rarities, when in fact nothing could be further than the truth.

At the end of the day, I will still own this 'Master', and while QPL can afford to turn their nose up to this (and the many other rarities I possess) it is a shame because it is the genuine fans who will suffer and lose out because of such pettiness.

So while you preach '...pooling of resources in everyone's best interests...', in reality, you (and your employers) do not give a damn. As long as the musical is a success, they can string us along with yet another re-re-release and the hope of a non-materialising anthology. It is all lip-service.

If you (by that I mean QPL) do NOT wish fans to contribute, do NOT ask - or if THEY really do wish collector collaboration, then I really think YOU need to attend some public relations courses, as I for one would rather burn my collection than donate it to such a spiteful and indifferent organisation.



"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
Pim Derks user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 08:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Maybe a strange question - as you legally own the mastertape John, would it be (theoretically) be possible to release this - as long as you pay royaltyies to QP for their songs?

The mastertapes of Montreal were also in the hands of someone else than QP and they released it too without official approval of QP I think?

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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 08:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks for the answers, John.
Pim - VERY interesting idea :-)

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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 08:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yes, I would definitely buy such a release.

Mmmm, not sure about the issue of JSS being able to release the product as I'm not totally up to date on copyright laws, but from memory, it would seem the case is that:

JSS owns the physical tape that the concert is recorded on, and, presuming that it was bought 'legitimately' and isn't to his knowledge stolen, neither QP or EMI can do anything to make him hand it over to them. He could quite easily record over it if he wants - it's his tape to do with whatever he wants regarding the actual 'hardware' of the tape.

JSS doesn't however own the sound recording on his tape, and therefore whoever owns this can legally stop JSS releasing the recording. The sound recording may be owned by QP, although as they weren't in existence in 1973/4 this is doubtful. EMI Records could own the sound recording but personally I doubt that is so as they would not have usually spent a great deal of money organising a live concert recording of a relatively unknown artist at their own cost. Interestingly, it may therefore actually be someone like the BBC or Trident who actually owns the sound recording. JSS - is the master labelled to say who owns the sound recording??

In the case that the sound recording isn't owned by QP or EMI, I believe that JSS could potentially come to an agreement with either such company and the gig could officially and quite legally be released without the knowledge or approval of QP or EMI.

JSS - is the master tape you hold a multitrack recording (ie could be remixed), or is it already a mixed down final stereo mix??

Perhaps someone with a greater understanding of copyright law could confirm or amend my thoughts above?

Cheers

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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 08:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I would guess that if anyone, including EMI tried to issue this recording the BBC would be asking questions. They would still own the copyright to the recording wouldn't they? Anyway - lets face it... QPL are never going to release anything like this because it doesn't conform to the image of Queen that they have chosen to promote for years and "ONLY" Queen fans would be interested. What a fucking crazy idea... releasing archived material that only fans of the band would want! HA. They won't even release Hammersmith '75 on DVD because it isn't a greatest hits setlist that will appeal to everyone with just a passing interest in the band/songs.

cmsdrums - it would be the BBC who owned the copyright and it would be a stereo recording as no multitrack would have ever existed.

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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 08:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

cmsdrums: JSS - is the master tape you hold a multitrack recording (ie could be remixed), or is it already a mixed down final stereo mix??

Mixed down final stereo mix - so a remix would be out of the question, but, don't you find it strange that on one hand QPL 'advertise' for this sort of material, yet on the other show no interest?

As for releasing it privately, I could not afford to do that. Besides, once the first copy is made, it too could be easily bootlegged, so I could not afford to take that chance. However, leagally speaking, the tape is over 34 years old, and unless I am mistaken - renewed copyright only lasts for 25 years - is that correct?

If that is the case, and I know that the BBC have NOT renewed the copyright, does that mean I can renew or register the copyright under my own name?

Unless ofcourse someone in here wanted to buy it?


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
Pim Derks user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 09:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'll give you a fiver :D

Anyway - I'm sure that some label would be willing to pay an X-amount of money for this tape. Same thing happened with the Beatles' Hamburg tapes I think?

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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 09:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

yes it should be officially availeble
in the shops.
i surtainly would buy me a copy.




hello all you rock ’n’ rollers

it’s enourrrrrmous out here

it’s frightning i tell you

soooooooo beautiful.

queen live at KNEBWORTH PARK MAGIC ’86
cmsdrums user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 02 Sep 07, 10:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Only from memory, I think copyright runs out after 50 years, not 25. I remember something in hte last couple of years about the earliest CLiff Richard recordings becoming out of copyright, and as these were in the 1950's, I think this means that 50 yrs is the time frame involved.

Not knowing the logistics of releasing a record on a mass scale, it could be that you may not need to have a lump sum in order to successfully do this. If a company (for example, Pinnacle, or Eagle etc... or one if the companies that specialise in archive material) thought this project was a runner, they may offer you a cash sum to buy the tape, and then they would take all the profits. Alternatively it may be that you could arrange not to take any payment up front, but retain the ownership of the tape, then take a small percentage of the profits once they pay to have it pressed.

However, as it's now been confirmed that the BBC own the sound recording, I'm sure that they would be pretty hot on this kind of thing and so would prevent any kind of release whilst they still own it!!

I don't know if this is the sort of thing you can contact the BBC about, and negotiate to buy the sound recording as they will obviously never use it, or whether by contacting them they will say 'ah, that's where our tape went, give it back now!'

I'll buy the master off you in 16 yrs JSS, and then press a load of CDs up on my home burner!!!