Forums > Queen - General Discussion > Queen With Phil Collins

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matlin user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 20 Nov 07, 11:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Since people think Phil is a really good drummer do you think it would be good to take Phil on tour with Queen.He could sing some Queen songs Plus his own and when Rog sings his song we would have a proper drummer not a backing tape.


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Posted: 20 Nov 07, 11:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Not bloody likely. Look at the mess he made when he played on one of the Queen songs at the Queens Jubilee party.

And before someone says it.... I know he is a great drummer....


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Posted: 20 Nov 07, 11:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Christ, where do these people come from.......

Why would Roger give up his drummer's seat to a worse drummer / singer than himself? It's not an amazing band as it is currently, but it functions and has a certain dynamic that works - it ain't broke, so don't fix it.

This is almost as ridiculous as when Phil Collins guested with Led Zeppelin at Live Aid - completely inappropriate and ruinous.

If we're going down this road, why not dig Karen Carpenter up and see if she'd like to have a go at going on tour with Queen? She was a better vocalist than *ANY* of them, but the smell might put a few people off.


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Posted: 20 Nov 07, 12:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Benn wrote:


Why would Roger give up his drummer's seat to a worse drummer / singer than himself?


Or a better one, in this case?

But go on thinking Roger is the better singer. And then remember that a song like Su Su Sudio charted higher and sold more than any song Roger put out.

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Posted: 20 Nov 07, 13:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Micrówave wrote:

Benn wrote:


Why would Roger give up his drummer's seat to a worse drummer / singer than himself?


Or a better one, in this case?

But go on thinking Roger is the better singer. And then remember that a song like Su Su Sudio charted higher and sold more than any song Roger put out.


Better sales != quality

I like Phil, and I like most of Genesis (pre-1986), but I've personally been overwhelmed by a lot of his pop pap, mostly 'Can't Stop Loving You' and 'You're In My Heart', which were played every hour for two summers over the PA system at the amusement park where I worked. At the end of a fourteen hour day, I was ready to strangle the person in charge of assembling the mix tapes.

The point of this rant? Phil sold his soul to the devil (Disney). So that doesn't really have much to do with anything.

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Posted: 20 Nov 07, 15:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"And then remember that a song like Su Su Sudio charted higher and sold more than any song Roger put out."

So does that make Madonna or any of the Backstreet Boys exponentially better singers than Phil given their sales?


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Posted: 20 Nov 07, 15:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well the jubilee party in 2002 he was due to watc but said he could not hear the monitors or hold the notes for that song and realised he was going deaf, so will Young Sang it, Collins said he was going to a world tour and retire, he then gets divorced from his 28 year old wife and bang Genesis are back touring, something he said he would only do if Peter Gabriel rejoined and to be qite honest I used to love Genesis but his vocals are pretty weak these days

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Posted: 20 Nov 07, 16:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

RE: Susudio

Yes, I know this track is crap. Even PG sings backup vocals!! Why?!?!? But I simply pulled Phil's worst piece of crap out and it seems to be a better song than:
I'm In Love With My Car
Don't Lose Your Head
The Cross 1st album
Strange Frontier album
Fun In Space album
and pretty much every Cross track recorded and unrecorded.

I haven't heard Roger's last two efforts, but I'm sure they weren't the commercial success of No Jacket Required, the quality of And Then There Were Three thru Invisible Touch, or the downright good songwriting of ...But Seriously Folks.

PS: Elton John sold out to Disney long before Phil. But then, Brian sold out to Ford, didn't he?

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Posted: 20 Nov 07, 16:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I disagree -

Phil's lost his high end - not unusual for a lot of singers his age, but when you factor in his hearing problems, and that the change in his voice seemed to coincide with them, that probably explains it.

And the voice like any muscle has to be used to stay in shape, particularly as you get older- there were a couple of years there when he wasnt doing much at all singing wise, and may have lost the edge which he might still have if he had kept singing, and not gone mostly deaf in one ear!

That said, having seen him on the Genesis tour, and watched the DVD from his last tour, I think, altough stronger in lower keys than in the past, he sounds good. He doesnt chicken out of notes, and he's always in tune, which is more than can be said for a heck of a lot of popular singers.

As for drumming - no, he shouldnt drum with Queen; it was an interesting collaboration for the Jubilee concert, but clearly a one off due to the circumstances. I would have enjoyed him doing Champions, and its a great shame he couldnt- but that demonstrates his hearing problems really.

BUT, anyone who thinks Roger is a better drum is misguided - Phil Im certain is technically superior - he really is one of the best drummers to grace popular music. Go check out Los Endos, or a live version of Fifth of Firth for example.

Roger is a rock solid, fairly innovative and interesting drummer - I like how he tries to have a trademark by emphasising the backbeat in the rhythm, which is how he puts it I think. Now Im Here live, particularly in the 70's shows how awesome and fiery he could be.

Its always difficult to compare different genres, but I think its fair to say Phil is a league above.

Also - I didnt notice Phil muck up anything on drums at the Jubilee for Queen - care to elaborate, and I'll have a look (and stand corrected if necessary).

Finally - Live Aid - dont be daft. When you consider the fact he must have been jet-lagged to fuck, and that he was trying to play with another drummer with whom he'd never rehearsed I think, Im sure Phil can be forgiven for one or two mistakes, which is really all it was - and it was hardly like he'd had much chance to practice with Zeppelin - Im certain if they were doing a series of shows he would have been more than adequate.
The very fact Zeppelin considered him in the first place shows he was a quality drummer.

More to the point - Plant and Page were both far more awful that day; Plant struggled with every song, and it looked like Page hadnt seen a guitar for years - terrible playing from a great guitarist!
Yet everyone picks on Phil!?

Anyway, take it easy everyone.


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Posted: 20 Nov 07, 20:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Personally I use to think Genesis was a decent band, but in Tampa, Fl, we all partied all day to see them and not to mention the price of the tickets, but we were ready and settled in our seats and was ready for a good concert, they came out, Phil played one song and the band walked off the stage, a announcer came on stage and said that Collins had a sore voice and could'nt perfome anymore, well of course the crowd booooed....and he came on stage and bascially said F U's! And that really ticked me off, he was nasty and ignorant and conceded, well we thought it was a joke till he said everyone to F off, so I have no RESPECT for the idiot, and they could've cancelled the concert if he had a sore throat, instead of letting the 20,000 people ready, and cancel the concert a few hours before! Instead of letting everyone in to hear one song and then that, and he was so cruel explaining to the crowd, and bottom line, he played in Miami the next evening! Unreal!
So no respect for him no more!




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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 00:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

What about Neil Peart of Rush,anyone?


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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 06:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well on the last tour Roger couldn't even play the intro to fat bottom girls right.. came far to early ..

Roger is a great drummer but these days he does a lot of huffing and puffing for no reason.
He needs to get fitter.
Compare Neil Peart's drum solo on the last Rush tour to that one of Roger's on the last tour..

Even Roger would admit Mr Peart is in a different class- and they are the about the same age.

Name a Queen song Neil Peart could play ? all of em
Name a Rush song Roger could play ? maybe a couple if your lucky. but then even Mr Colins would struggle on some of em.


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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 10:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

mickyparise wrote:

Personally I use to think Genesis was a decent band, but in Tampa, Fl, we all partied all day to see them and not to mention the price of the tickets, but we were ready and settled in our seats and was ready for a good concert, they came out, Phil played one song and the band walked off the stage, a announcer came on stage and said that Collins had a sore voice and could'nt perfome anymore, well of course the crowd booooed....and he came on stage and bascially said F U's! And that really ticked me off, he was nasty and ignorant and conceded, well we thought it was a joke till he said everyone to F off, so I have no RESPECT for the idiot, and they could've cancelled the concert if he had a sore throat, instead of letting the 20,000 people ready, and cancel the concert a few hours before! Instead of letting everyone in to hear one song and then that, and he was so cruel explaining to the crowd, and bottom line, he played in Miami the next evening! Unreal!
So no respect for him no more!



Damn... that's awful!

What year was that?



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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 10:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

No Phil Collins,

Freddie Mercury may have been slightly biased towards his friend and bandmember regarding his percussion skills, FM was quoted as saying Roger Taylor could be guaranteed never to miss a beat.
Ask yourselves how many styles of music has Queen visited compared to Genesis who are Pretty much bog standard Soft Rock.


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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 11:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

jcomber wrote:

Ask yourselves how many styles of music has Queen visited compared to Genesis who are Pretty much bog standard Soft Rock.


Have you listened to anything Genesis put out between 1970 and 1983?

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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 18:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH

ah yeah
wrote:

mickyparise wrote:

Personally I use to think Genesis was a decent band, but in Tampa, Fl, we all partied all day to see them and not to mention the price of the tickets, but we were ready and settled in our seats and was ready for a good concert, they came out, Phil played one song and the band walked off the stage, a announcer came on stage and said that Collins had a sore voice and could'nt perfome anymore, well of course the crowd booooed....and he came on stage and bascially said F U's! And that really ticked me off, he was nasty and ignorant and conceded, well we thought it was a joke till he said everyone to F off, so I have no RESPECT for the idiot, and they could've cancelled the concert if he had a sore throat, instead of letting the 20,000 people ready, and cancel the concert a few hours before! Instead of letting everyone in to hear one song and then that, and he was so cruel explaining to the crowd, and bottom line, he played in Miami the next evening! Unreal!
So no respect for him no more!



Damn... that's awful!

What year was that?



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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 18:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

.....ASSDUDE...... wrote:

Lester Burnham wrote:

jcomber wrote:

Ask yourselves how many styles of music has Queen visited compared to Genesis who are Pretty much bog standard Soft Rock.


Have you listened to anything Genesis put out between 1970 and 1983?


Are you comparing Queen to Genesis.. Please.. Jcombers point is 100% justified. forget 1970 to 1983. Look at Queen from 1970 to 1995.


No I'm not comparing them. I like them both, and I happen to think Phil is a better drummer than Roger. Matter of personal opinion.

Jcombers was calling Genesis "bog standard soft rock", which they weren't from 1970 to 1983. Roger was a great live drummer, but a lot of their studio recordings featured drum machines and drum programming between 1981 and 1989, so what does that tell you? For the most part, Phil Collins drummed on every song on all their albums, but relinquished the throne to Chester Thompson when performing live.

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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 18:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Opps, Sir GH.....



17 May 92

Tampa, Florida
Show cancelled after two songs due to Phil's throat problems.


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Posted: 22 Nov 07, 17:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

.....ASSDUDE...... wrote:

Lester Burnham wrote:

.....ASSDUDE...... wrote:

Lester Burnham wrote:

jcomber wrote:

Ask yourselves how many styles of music has Queen visited compared to Genesis who are Pretty much bog standard Soft Rock.


Have you listened to anything Genesis put out between 1970 and 1983?


Are you comparing Queen to Genesis.. Please.. Jcombers point is 100% justified. forget 1970 to 1983. Look at Queen from 1970 to 1995.


No I'm not comparing them. I like them both, and I happen to think Phil is a better drummer than Roger. Matter of personal opinion.

Jcombers was calling Genesis "bog standard soft rock", which they weren't from 1970 to 1983. Roger was a great live drummer, but a lot of their studio recordings featured drum machines and drum programming between 1981 and 1989, so what does that tell you? For the most part, Phil Collins drummed on every song on all their albums, but relinquished the throne to Chester Thompson when performing live.


Ok, cool.

But didnt most artists use drumming machines in the 80's? I known thats no excuse as such but thats just what you would of needed to use to get the 80's modern sound.

On that note, would Roger program the beats ect ect? They still had drums, just electroinc drums.


Dude - Way out of your depth here clearly.
Go away and listen to "Selling England by the Pound" "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway" and hmmm "Trick of the Tail" a few times, and maybe you'll have a better idea of how varied PC's ability is.

Oh, and even in the 80's and 90's Genesis were far from bog standard soft rock - have a listen to Domino, The Brazilian, Mama, Home by the Sea, Fading Lights, Driving the Last Spike - all a long way from bog standard, and not really soft rock - more accurately prog rock for the time.


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Posted: 24 Nov 07, 10:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

billy bob wrote:



Name a Queen song Neil Peart could play ? all of em
Name a Rush song Roger could play ? maybe a couple if your lucky. but then even Mr Colins would struggle on some of em.


What an irrelevant argument to use.

Eddie Van Halen has said before that he can play every single note of every solo that Eric Clapton plays, but when he does it sounds nothing like Clapton and does not sound nearly as good. This is despite probably everyone arguing that ECH is a far superior guitarist from a 'technical' point of view.

The same thing would work with Roger's drumming - yes, Neil Peart is technically superior, but he could play Queen songs all day long and the songs would sound very different without Roger's distinct style and sound.

In fact, Roger Taylor is one of a very few drummers (usually only guitarists and vocalists get this)who have a distinct style and sound that once heard you can tell it's him almost straight away.