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magicalfreddiemercury user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 20 Nov 07, 16:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

She was gang raped by seven men but because she was 'alone with an unrelated male', she'll receive 90 lashes and time in prison.

One of the reasons we were given for invading Iraq was to liberate the Iraqi people from an evil dictator. If we can fight a six year plus war for this reason, why can't we and the rest of the supposed civilized world at least condemn this so called justice?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071120/ts_nm/saudi_rape_usa_dc;_ylt=AvvvandF.nelK0vAxr8tZ4hg.3QA



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Carol! the Musical user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 20 Nov 07, 21:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

That's terrible. D:


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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 00:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hey Magical
I promise I'll respond....when I have time :-S


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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 03:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

More details about this case on the Human Rights Watch website

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/11/16/saudia17363.htm

Saudi Arabia is one of the worst countries for a woman to live in. I don't even want to imagine the agony of this poor woman.




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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 07:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's okay, just say there's oil under where it happened and you'll get people in there in no time.


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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 08:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

YourValentine wrote:

More details about this case on the Human Rights Watch website

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/11/16/saudia17363.htm


According to this article, the case is a year old.

?!

Why are we just hearing about this now?

I didn't realize the 'unrelated male' she was with had also been punished with the same sentence as she. It's a disgusting system and while I understand there's a different mindset there with their religion and laws, I still find it impossible to understand how a mother or a father or a loving husband can remain silent and accepting of this treatment toward their loved one. I suppose it's the fear of what their own punishment would be. I'd think, with this form of justice, people would not want to create children. I'd die before I'd see my daughter (or son, for that matter) first assaulted by strangers then by the system.

I think this sentence from the article said everything -
“Their interrogations and court hearings are more likely to compound the trauma of the original assault than provide justice.”



"The others don't like my interviews. And frankly, I don't care much for theirs." ~ Freddie Mercury



YourValentine user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 10:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The case is older but the verdict is new, it was an appeal. The woman - extremely courageously - appealed only to be punished even more. BBC also reported that victims and offenders all were Shiites, the minority in the country. Apparently, the rapists also got more jail time.

Why we did not hear about it? We did hear about it - now it has been reported in the mainstream media because the US administration said the verdict is "astonishing". Maybe the victim would have had a better chance if we all had been a bit more outspoken. There are just so many cases of ctruelty and injustice - it's almost impossible to keep track and the most urgent action is always taken in Death Penalty cases.


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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 11:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Not 90. Now she gets 200 lashes and has to walk the plank. Arrrrrr.

And it was increased, apparently, because she DID talk to the media.

YourValentine wrote:

Saudi Arabia is one of the worst countries for a woman to live in.


The Victim's husband says:

Saudi society, he said, is "is very respectful to women in general."

Source: CNN



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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 12:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2007/11/21/robertson.saudi.rape.husband.cnn?iref=mpvideosview

Maybe there is hope, after all with the case getting more attention worldwide. Saudi Arabia does not want to be looked at as a country where women have no protection at all and the courage the husband may have an effect.




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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 14:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't think Saudi Arabia is too worried about public perception. If anything, this will further their efforts of extreme islamism. How could the victim's husband make that "In General" statement about his country?

You see, women are property. Seeing these events will pound that point home. And I'm sure the aggressors will serve closer to the 2 years than the 9 years.

It's a different world over there. The religious rule is NO going out in public without a male companion. I guess that a similar comparison would be the religious nuts who burn down abortion clinics. There are plenty of "holy" people out there claiming it's God's work and the right thing to do.

Furthermore, pretty stupid of Hilary Clinton to come out and lash out at the Saudi government. So I guess we can strike her off the list of hopefuls now, also. What a dipshit. If she would have won, how would she diplomatically deal with Saudi Arabia after going on record with her latest rant?

It would probably be best to be glad it's not happening in our neighborhood and quit worrying what other countries do to their citizens.

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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 14:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well, now that I have more time to respond, most of what I wanted to say has already been said. I mean, Saudi Arabia is the country that is the birthplace and raising place of Osama bin Laden. Don't get me wrong, I'm as pro-Muslim as I can be considering I don't like any form of organized or unorganized religion, but this sad event unfortunately doesn't surprise me at all.



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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 16:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Can you imagine what they would do to Britney Spears, Paris Hilton, and Lindsay Lohan in Saudi Arabia?

( >-D ~ evil grin )


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 16:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr.Jingles wrote:

Can you imagine what they would do to Britney Spears, Paris Hilton, and Lindsay Lohan in Saudi Arabia?

( >-D ~ evil grin )


Should we set up a collection on the internet, and hire them to appear at an imaginary event there? ;)

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Posted: 21 Nov 07, 17:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr.Jingles wrote:

Can you imagine what they would do to Britney Spears, Paris Hilton, and Lindsay Lohan in Saudi Arabia?

( >-D ~ evil grin )


LMAO. :O



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Posted: 23 Nov 07, 09:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Micrówave wrote:

You see, women are property. Seeing these events will pound that point home. And I'm sure the aggressors will serve closer to the 2 years than the 9 years.

It's a different world over there. The religious rule is NO going out in public without a male companion. I guess that a similar comparison would be the religious nuts who burn down abortion clinics. There are plenty of "holy" people out there claiming it's God's work and the right thing to do.


Exactly. I feel beyond awful for the woman on a human level, but if she was aware of the rules of her country and the consequences for breaking them, she shouldn't have left the home without her husband (apparently it is him who you must be with). I'm not condoning the rules. I'm just accepting that those are the rules, and that there's unfortunately no sign of the theocracy being eradicated any time soon.



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magicalfreddiemercury user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 23 Nov 07, 11:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Clearly, this young woman broke the law by going out without a related male companion. However, I'd say being abducted and raped by seven men - Christ! Raped! By seven men! - is punishment enough. But that's me and I've no control over the Saudi regime.

My problem with this - beyond the obvious - is that the world is not roaring mad. When forced circumcision of young girls was brought into the mainstream, voices from all over condemned it. It's still being practiced, but if I have my facts straight, its practice is now against the law in many territories. Why are we not seeing a public outcry here? This isn't the first we've heard of cases like this. By now, I'd think we'd want it to change. Is the world so numb to it now that we're resigned to accept laws like this simply because 'that's the way it is over there'?



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Posted: 23 Nov 07, 11:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yep, exactly.

As long as most people in the west are convinced without proof that an invisible man in the sky exists, they aren't going to be able to see how similar beliefs (although more extreme) in another part of the world are the reason why this poor woman is about to be tortured, again. They'll simply write it off as a "cultural problem", regardless of its roots, and call it a day.



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Posted: 23 Nov 07, 12:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:

Yep, exactly.

As long as most people in the west are convinced without proof that an invisible man in the sky exists, they aren't going to be able to see how similar beliefs (although more extreme) in another part of the world are the reason why this poor woman is about to be tortured, again. They'll simply write it off as a "cultural problem", regardless of its roots, and call it a day.


I hate what you've said here but I do agree with it. It just sounds so hopeless.



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Posted: 23 Nov 07, 14:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Oh no - it's not about disobeying the rules - please read the reports and see the interviews which are available!

First of all, the victim was not married, she married after the rape.
Secondly, it's not true that women in Saudi Arabia cannot leave the house without permission - they are not allowed to "mingle" with unrelated men without permission of a male relative. In this case it's very questionable that there was any "mingling" because she was in a car with her friend on a public street in front of a mall when the 6 guys caught her and her friend.

Even if we assume that women should obey such rules without any resistance - it is very controversial that the victim violated these despicable rules.

Now - about how the world should react: they should protest, shout out, send emails and faxes to the court of the king. Hillary Clinton is right. All Western leaders should voice their objection. Not long ago King Abdullah was in England (under much protest by Human Rights activists) to buy war jets for several billion $$. They want to do their dirty business in peace. The more the public gets angry about such a case the bigger the chance they let her free to avoid more bad publicity.


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Posted: 23 Nov 07, 16:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

YourValentine wrote:

Oh no - it's not about disobeying the rules - please read the reports and see the interviews which are available!

First of all, the victim was not married, she married after the rape.
Secondly, it's not true that women in Saudi Arabia cannot leave the house without permission - they are not allowed to "mingle" with unrelated men without permission of a male relative. In this case it's very questionable that there was any "mingling" because she was in a car with her friend on a public street in front of a mall when the 6 guys caught her and her friend.

Even if we assume that women should obey such rules without any resistance - it is very controversial that the victim violated these despicable rules.

Now - about how the world should react: they should protest, shout out, send emails and faxes to the court of the king. Hillary Clinton is right. All Western leaders should voice their objection. Not long ago King Abdullah was in England (under much protest by Human Rights activists) to buy war jets for several billion $$. They want to do their dirty business in peace. The more the public gets angry about such a case the bigger the chance they let her free to avoid more bad publicity.


The term "mingling", unfortunately, is subjective. They were in a public place, yes, but she was not escorted by a male relative and so, in that regard, she broke the, as you correctly called it, "despicable" law.

We're not hearing much about this case on the news here anymore - though we are hearing repeatedly about how wonderful the weather was for the Thanksgiving Day Parade yesterday. It's like it's already old news. I've sent an email to Hillary Clinton thanking her for her comments on this and stating my concern that more is not being done. My fear, however, is that the more that's made of this, the worse this woman's treatment will be. I don't mean to imply nothing should be said or done, just that I'm afraid of what sentence they might inflict upon her next.



"The others don't like my interviews. And frankly, I don't care much for theirs." ~ Freddie Mercury