Forums > Personal > Santa Claus - Lie or Charming Myth?

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magicalfreddiemercury user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 21 Dec 07, 11:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I was in the deli the other day and one of the workers was wearing a Santa hat with long white braids attached. I made the mistake of calling her Mrs. Claus, and she went off saying, "Don't get me started on all that phony crap. People lying to their kids about some old fat pervert who checks them while they're sleeping..."

Honestly, the woman creeped me out.

I've never told my daughter there was a Santa and in fact have been known to tell her, "I'm Santa Claus." She'd always give me a funny look - one that said she wasn't sure whether I was joking - and then continue chatting away. She's twelve now and so doesn't believe, but I never said there was a Santa because it's just so blatantly false. And yet, I never spoiled the fantasy for her because she was always wide-eyed and excited by the idea of being so good that she'd get a special present from him. Yes - just one present from Santa. The biggest and most wished-for item. The rest were from the REAL Santa Claus. :-)

Anyway, after listening to the deli woman, I wondered how other people felt about this. I went online and found this little bit...

http://onecleardot.com/2007/12/04/santa-claus-lie-or-charming-myth/

What do y'all think about the subject?



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Posted: 21 Dec 07, 17:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think it's very much a charming myth that does no harm. I have happy memories of believing in him, actually! Now what that woman said was just plain scary. She's bitter at something beyond Santa..


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Posted: 21 Dec 07, 17:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm not sure if in the future I'll let my children believe in Santa or just tell them the truth straight away, but at the moment I believe it's okay to let them believe in Santa for a few years, and then, when they're a bit mature to understand things, explain that Santa is just a fictional character, like Mickey or a pokemon, and that it's the parents who buy the presents.

And after they're even more mature (12 years old? 14?), explain that Santa does capitalism a big favour by increasing sales a helluvalot in December. ;P


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Posted: 21 Dec 07, 17:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color=660066>Caddel wrote:

I think it's very much a charming myth that does no harm. I have happy memories of believing in him, actually! Now what that woman said was just plain scary. She's bitter at something beyond Santa..

Probably the fat old pervert who checked HER out when she slept as a child. O_o


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Posted: 21 Dec 07, 18:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color=teal>Cookies?<h6>A Scientist wrote:

<font color=660066>Caddel wrote:

I think it's very much a charming myth that does no harm. I have happy memories of believing in him, actually! Now what that woman said was just plain scary. She's bitter at something beyond Santa..

Probably the fat old pervert who checked HER out when she slept as a child. O_o

Maybe when she was a kid, she was expecting Santa to give her a present and her parents couldn't afford it, and she had all her hopes up about Santa being able to buy it...


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Posted: 23 Dec 07, 19:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gdVXwJWPTzQ

THAT IS SANTA!


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Posted: 24 Dec 07, 09:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

.....ASSDUDE...... wrote:

Its Very Charming Myth that if your fortunat to celibrate as a kid, you have many great memories, so who is being harmed.


There's more awareness on the part of parents now, I think. My parents never gave it a second thought. They said there was a Santa and that was that. Now, parenting has changed - not necessarily for the better, either - and parents are more like 'friends' to their kids.

Between my daughter and I, there's always been open communication so telling her there was a Santa wasn't comfortable or natural for me. But I didn't correct others when they said it in front of her or squash her fantasy.

I'm surprised at how many other parents I've spoken to feel it's hurting the child because when they learn you've lied about that and they fell for it, they'll feel foolish, AND they'll wonder what else you lied to them about.

I never felt that way with my parents but... there you have it. The other side - like the deli woman I mentioned above - and who she and others believe is being harmed.



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Posted: 24 Dec 07, 09:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Ellie<3Queen wrote:

I think both of those women are speaking a load of crap. When your little you love Santa. I stopped believing 4 years ago when I was 10 but I remember loads of great times waking up at 4am to open my presents from santa I was so excited. Also the kids who have been told santa isn't real is gonna go to school and say around christmas time "My mummy said Santa isn't real"they are gonna upset their lttle friends who have been told he exists. I stopped believing when I got a mug from santa which had a price tag saying "£5 Sues Gifts" a local shop.


See.
This is what the magic of Christmas for children is all about.
For a child,Christmas is all about waking up excitedly at 4 in the morning and going and unwrapping all the presents that Santa has brought them.The magic that Santa brings is in the faces of children when they see what they get.The sheer joy.Though we may well be bleary eyed because of a late night through wrapping they're presents.
I would say keep the myth going because children need all the magic they can get in their lives and it's not doing them harm anyway.
YEAH.IT'S CHRISTMAS!!!


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Posted: 24 Dec 07, 10:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Do you know that Santa Claus actually is Saint Nicholas of Myra? And that this person is still celebrated in some European countries at December the 5th or 6th? And that the Dutch took it overseas?

Coca Cola changed Saint Nicholas into Santa Claus and made it popular in the end.

And well, in my opinion it’s a charming myth. Never heard a kid explaining about being fooled. ;-)



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Posted: 24 Dec 07, 11:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

WEll... in our case Tijn we're gonna make our children believe in Santa and on Baby Jesus, but then we should make just one gift for them, and the rest are from their grandparents xD


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Posted: 24 Dec 07, 12:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

You do the baby Jezus stuff... I don't even know the story! xD


I got to try al little more,

because I'm an asshole but I'm learning.



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Posted: 24 Dec 07, 12:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

That's a fair trade :P


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Posted: 27 Dec 07, 11:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color=#CC0066 face="Bradley Hand ITC"> The Mir@cle </font> wrote:

Do you know that Santa Claus actually is Saint Nicholas of Myra? And that this person is still celebrated in some European countries at December the 5th or 6th? And that the Dutch took it overseas?

Coca Cola changed Saint Nicholas into Santa Claus and made it popular in the end.

And well, in my opinion it’s a charming myth. Never heard a kid explaining about being fooled. ;-)


The amount of factual inaccuracies in your post is embarassing, I'm afraid.

First off: yes, the feast of St. Nicholas of Myra is still celebrated in a number of countries. Do also notice that it is celebrated on different dates in different places. See a book on medieval dating methods for details.

Second: the Dutch took their annual start-of-winter feast ('Sinterklaas') with them overseas. There, over the years, they met with other peoples who had taken their start-of-winter feasts and celebrations with them. Syncretism (the merging of different (systems of) belief(s) ) took place, which involved mainly German, Scandinavian, English/Scottish and Dutch influence, but also mediterranean and native American, amongst many others.

Third: in extension of this: the figure 'Santa Claus' clearly gets his NAME from St. Nicholas. He is modelled, like it is in Dutch, on the Scandinavian Wodan riding his horse Sleipnir (who used to have six legs). However, the figure itself seems to be based more on a frontiersman in looks. His other name, Kris Kringle, is derived from the German 'Christkindel' (the infant Jesus), who also added the tale of the old man and his wife living in the woods up north (later Northpole), which mixed with the Scandinavian ideas. Note that both were farmers, mainly.
Additionally, the Scandinavians knew of a creature called the Tomte, which were figures like small elderly men with beards. They protected the house and especially the children. Couple that with a celebration around the winter solstice (21 December on the present-day Gregorian calendar, 25 December in the older Julian system, during which religious holidays were set (some on fixed days, like Christmas, others on shifting lunar dates, like Easter).

As you see, an awful lot of melting together takes place, as this is only a small part. So please stop your shauvinist behaviour, trying to claim a celebration that is much older than the one you identify it with, taking into account the origins of Christmas and Santa Claus.

Also, Coca Cola did not do a damn lot of designing Santa Claus. They just put him up on the most succesful billboard.


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Posted: 27 Dec 07, 11:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'd also like to add that the 'Coca Cola' Santa Claus makes his first appearance by the hand of Thomas Nast in the January 6 1863 issue of Harper's Weekly: http://www.billcasselman.com/Original_Santa_Claus.jpg.


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Posted: 27 Dec 07, 11:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color=#CC0066 face="Bradley Hand ITC"> The Mir@cle </font> wrote:

Do you know that Santa Claus actually is Saint Nicholas of Myra? And that this person is still celebrated in some European countries at December the 5th or 6th?


We are celebrating it on December 6th.


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Posted: 28 Dec 07, 18:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Santa was black and Jewish long before Sammy Davis Jr. made it popular.

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Posted: 28 Dec 07, 20:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

i dont see the harm in an old jolly man coming only once a year.

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