Forums > Personal > Right, I need some advice. Proper advise.

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Freya is quietly judging you. user not visiting Queenzone.com
Meh.
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Posted: 05 Jan 08, 17:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I wasn't going to do this and I still don't think it's a good idea, because I feel somewhat as though I'm betraying their trust, and I'm only doing this being I know that people here can be completely mutual.

Basically, I want you to put yourselves in this situation:

Two of your best friends are sisters, they are two of the nicest people in the world however, their father is a complete and utter... well, I have no words to describe him. He basically subjected them to the worst things that children should be subjected to, physical abuse, sexual abuse.

Their mother doesn't know about it, neither does their brother and they're scared of telling them in case they're not believed or their mum decides to disown them or something. They also know from visible bruises on their mother that there dad does perhaps take out his aggression on her. However, their mum does love her husband and she’s been with him since she was 17 and is about 50 now and it would seem she knows nothing different. This is another thing, they’re both going to be going to university next year and they're terrified of leaving their mum alone with him when they go to university.

They have to see him ever day of their lives because he still lives with them. He really is a vile man.

They both want to go to the police, but they’re both scared, they don't want to have to go through it all with the police as it's obviously so painful for them and again, they're scared they won't be believed.

It's just so incredibly sad, having somebody crying uncontrollably telling you they’re a horrible person and that it’s their own fault and there’s nothing you can say or do that will change their mind.

I want them to go to the police and they want to go to the police, but I just don't know what I can do. Except be their for them.

What would you do? Would you encourage them to go to the police which would mean they would have to relive it, perhaps lose their family or let them do it in their own time?

There's so much I've left out here, but I can’t really write it all down. I really am not sure whether I should be posting this or not, as I feel bad that having kept this secret for such a long time I'm just typing it out, but it's not like that, I just want to know what people think.


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Posted: 05 Jan 08, 18:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The only thing they will gain by not going to the police is the assuredness that the abuse will continue - if not for them, because they'll be out of the house, then for their mother. If these girls were abused by him - physically and/or sexually - what's to say he hasn't abused others? Their cousins perhaps, or their friends. What about their children when these girls have them (IF they have them). What's to say their brother hasn't been abused as well?

Ignoring an abuser will not make him stop the abuse.

As impossible as it seems to them to have to discuss this with the police or therapists, I strongly suggest they do it. They've survived the most difficult part - the abuse itself. Talking about it can't hurt them but can free them - and perhaps even free their mother.

If the police terrify them too much right now, then another suggestion (or additional suggestion) would be to seek professional counseling. Your friends can go together, discuss everything with a therapist and gain the strength and confidence they need to do what needs to be done.

Freya, you're a great friend to care so much for them and take their concerns to heart. You're in a difficult place but whatever they decide to do, being there for them in a non-judgmental way is the most important thing of all. There is no one as lonely as a victim of abuse. Just having someone listen to them reminds them that there can be a way out.



"The others don't like my interviews. And frankly, I don't care much for theirs." ~ Freddie Mercury



Freya is quietly judging you. user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 05 Jan 08, 18:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

You're right, who's to say he hasn't and won't do it again to others. I am however almost certain that their brother hasn't been abused, he almost hero worships his dad, he thinks his dad is brilliant because he stopped the line of abuse in the family (Yes, their father was also abused as a child)

They have both seen therapists, and have said it helps, they know it isn't enough though and it's not truly going to be enough until they've completely put a stop to it by going to the police. It's just making the first steps in going to the police that's hard.

He's also a violent man and I wouldn't like to think what me might do if he found out they were going to the police and lost his temper.

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Posted: 05 Jan 08, 18:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Ultimately, it's up to them. The ball is, in fact, in their court. I suppose all you should do is make sure they know that. They still have their judgment, so it would not be right to impose your own judgment onto them.


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Freya is quietly judging you. user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 05 Jan 08, 18:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm not trying to impose my judgement on to them. It's just I'm pretty young, and so are they, and I wanted to know what others would do in this situation.

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Posted: 05 Jan 08, 19:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Problem is - unless you have witnessed this first hand - you only have their side of the story, and I am sure that most courts in the world need evidence other than heresay.

I accept that he may not be husband or father of the year, but, he may not be an abuser either.

Also, when these kids get to university, what better a time for their mother to leave?


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Posted: 05 Jan 08, 19:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well, if they're going to university, they must be old enough to judge for themselves, I think.

I mean, if I were you, and they were under 16, I think I'd report it myself.

However, if they're of a reasonable age, I suppose the best thing to do is just to be there for them.

Not that I should be giving advice, nor should anyone be taking any from me. I'm probably just giving my unwanted opinion for my own sake. Carry on.


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
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Posted: 05 Jan 08, 19:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I have absolutely no intention of going to the police myself, it's not my business, and it might end up worse if they're not ready for it.

I think I'm being slightly misunderstood, I'm not intending to do anything about it myself, as I feel it isn't my place, I just want some advice generally about it, and advice to give to them.

I haven't been able to talk about this with an adult because I don't want to talk to anybody who knows them, or knows of them, if that makes sense.

John S Stuart wrote:



I accept that he may not be husband or father of the year, but, he may not be an abuser either.


Oh believe me, he is.

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Posted: 05 Jan 08, 19:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<b><font color=007788> ?Freya? wrote:

I have absolutely no intention of going to the police myself, it's not my business, and it might end up worse if they're not ready for it.

I think I'm being slightly misunderstood, I'm not intending to do anything about it myself, as I feel it isn't my place, I just want some advice generally about it, and advice to give to them.

I haven't been able to talk about this with an adult because I don't want to talk to anybody who knows them, or knows of them, if that makes sense.



It does make sense.

Your meaning was clear for me and I completely agree with you about not going to the police for them. As Music Man said, if they were under age, then it would be a different story. And it would be your responsibility to tell the authorities. In this case, going to them could cause irreversible damage. If he's as sadistic as you fear, then they should have a plan before taking such a massive step. Perhaps calling a domestic abuse hotline for advice would be a starting point - one point before the police if they do choose to go that route.

And photographic evidence (of bruises, holes in walls, etc) isn't a bad idea. Neither is a diary of events. Sounds bizarre perhaps, but talking about this can be so stressful that vital details are forgotten.

I'll shut up now. I wish them (and you) luck.



"The others don't like my interviews. And frankly, I don't care much for theirs." ~ Freddie Mercury



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Posted: 05 Jan 08, 19:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's hard to advise not knowing the victims but as a general rule it's better to report the abuser even if a court should not convict him in the end. The victim often needs to fight back in order to be able to cope with the abuse. I am sure the mother knows very well what happened but chose to close her eyes which happens very often in abusive families. It's well possible that she would not lie in court but finally face what she ignored for so long.

If the women are unsure what to do they should consult with a Women's Rape And Sexual Abuse Centre which is available in most bigger cities. There they get professional advice and can better decide what is best for themselves and their mother. You can offer friendship and support but it's probably better to speak to experienced people.


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Posted: 05 Jan 08, 22:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

going to the police is their best option, but before they do that, i think they should contemplate this whole thing with their mom in private. they should plan out what they should do. if their mom still doesn't want to report their dad, maybe they should like... tell her everything. like what the dad did to them. (wait... they haven't told their mom about it right?)

your friends, i suggest, should be each other's support group. and, freya, you're doing a great job at supporting them as well. but from what i've watched on oprah (hehe..) those who have been abused in the past still carry out the same abuse to their children or to others unless they have therapy... or something like that.

(did that make sense....?)

my thoughts and prayers go out to you and your friends and their family. Ü

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Posted: 06 Jan 08, 00:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

i think it would be wise to break a vicious cycle. maybe even in a way, reporting them will get their dad some serious help.

they should look at every worst case scenario possible, and find a solution to them that is as painless as possible (example: what should happen if they didnt report, or retaliated on their own, or told mom but didnt report, etc). that way they can be prepared for anything. for all you know he could be abusing your mother too.

everyone else has given good advice, and basically the verdict is that your firends should get him out of their lives until he is well, or theyre ok with him being around again (being their own judgment). they should also be glad they can confide in each other on this, and they are not alone, which is a start on assurance. it is NOT going to be easy. i assume theyre of age to be on their own, if on worst case?

we give kudos to you for caring so much, freya :) i hope i could help a little.


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Posted: 06 Jan 08, 01:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

If this thing goes on too long, it can wind up in a pretty big backlash aimed at the abuser. It happens so often that laws have been changed here in Australia just recently, concerning victims of abuse killing their abusers.
You said it in your first post; all you can really do is 'be there for them', and I guess reassure them that "telling" is the only way that this is going to stop.
Good luck to them 'n' all; it seems ludicrous to say so at this point but these things have turned out comparitively well in the past. The important thing is that something is done.


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
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Posted: 06 Jan 08, 02:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think they should go, but the main problem is how the rest of the family is gonna react. Maybe her mom is being phisically abused also, no sexually, but literally hit by her husband. There's tons of cases like this one here in Spain, you get tired sometimes of seeing this.

I'll keep these with my prayers to guide them throughth right desicion...


Barcelona, October 22nd 2008
Freya is quietly judging you. user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 06 Jan 08, 09:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thank you everybody :)

I think making a diary of everything he does is a really good idea and I will definitely suggest that, and ringing a domestic violence helpline is also something that I might suggest, because that way they can talk confidentially to people with experience and not actually do it face to face.

The thing is, they do find it quite hard to confide in each other, because they’re both so important to each other they’re scared of hurting each other, so they tend to talk about it separately.

They've both said to me at different times that I might actually have to force them to go to the police and actually go in there with them while they give their statements, and I'm wondering whether to do that or not, because it's important that a person is ready before there take such a large step.

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Posted: 07 Jan 08, 03:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

^hmmm...

if they're telling you to do that, things might go haywire...at least that's what i think. but you guys should at least assume different scenarios and what would happen in each so that you guys would know what to do. having said that, plan out how you would "attack" each scenario so you can get a good end result.

did that make sense? :D

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Posted: 07 Jan 08, 06:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Murder the pervert. That's what some people would do. Or wait until he goes outside during the night, or in the early morning when it's dark, and kick his ass. Or have someone do it for you.


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Posted: 07 Jan 08, 11:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Domestic disputes can be the most tricky of all situations, just ask your local law enforcement officer. You have to be very careful involving yourself as well. But if you are unsure, read this story:

http://www.star-telegram.com/629/v-print/story/387530.html

Just happened here over the holidays. Sounds eerily familiar.

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Posted: 07 Jan 08, 12:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color="green"><b> chickenlicious! wrote:


but from what i've watched on oprah (hehe..)


Even Oprah can't keep abuse from happening at her own school.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
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Posted: 07 Jan 08, 12:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

.*.Messenger: Jake Pyndle.*. wrote:

Murder the pervert. That's what some people would do. Or wait until he goes outside during the night, or in the early morning when it's dark, and kick his ass. Or have someone do it for you.


Kids, you know what time it is? It's time to call Chuck Norris to open a big can of whoop-ass.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]