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The Real Wizard user is on Queenzone.com
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Posted: 13 Jan 08, 21:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/dimming_prog_summary.shtml

Discuss.



"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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Carol! the Musical user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 13 Jan 08, 23:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I hate sunlight. Terrible about the environment, though.


-Things Have Changed For Me-
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Posted: 14 Jan 08, 12:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"We are all seeing rather less of the Sun."

Well, here in Texas there's been more Sun and warm weather this winter than in the last 50 years.

So great. Global Warming. Global Dimming. Hole in the Ozone layer. You keep believing that and keep buying into the companies that are making zillions because of some scientist's opinion that day.

I hope to leave this world a little filthier and used up anyways. I didn't have an Ipod, Cell Phone, or the internet when I was a kid. Things are tough all over.

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Posted: 15 Jan 08, 09:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Micrówave wrote:

"We are all seeing rather less of the Sun."

Well, here in Texas there's been more Sun and warm weather this winter than in the last 50 years.

So great. Global Warming. Global Dimming. Hole in the Ozone layer. You keep believing that and keep buying into the companies that are making zillions because of some scientist's opinion that day.

I hope to leave this world a little filthier and used up anyways. I didn't have an Ipod, Cell Phone, or the internet when I was a kid. Things are tough all over.


I'm glad that people like you exist, really. Why? Because your kind of people remind me that, when mankind finally DOES become extinct, that will be a GOOD thing.


Not Plutus but Apollo rules Parnassus

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Posted: 15 Jan 08, 09:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

.....ASSDUDE...... wrote:

I think The New Foo's album is pretty good.

Most new music these days just comes and goes, some bands who are great dont even get a shot, but who know's what there ambition is..


Im mean, if all EMO's dont like conformity, why do they all dress the same?


I can't even say what I did about Microwave about YOU, sadly. Your importance in the universe would rank about the same as a random dustspeck in a mostly abandoned and slightly ghetto-like backwater of the galaxy.


Not Plutus but Apollo rules Parnassus

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Posted: 15 Jan 08, 10:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

They are just now figuring this out? I would think it would be fairly common sense to anyone. I mean, you burn coal and things, which releases the particles into the air, and they are just now thinking that "Gee...maybe they are blocking out the sun's rays because they are in the way?" Sometimes the scientific community is wonderfully late with the most obvious conclusions....
Oh, and TQ is right about some of the responders to this thread, though I'd like to keep Microwave around as he's a pretty good debate partner. If nothing else he allows me frequent practice to sharpen my skills


Formerly MHG
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Posted: 15 Jan 08, 10:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

ThomasQuinn wrote:


Because your kind of people remind me that, when mankind finally DOES become extinct, that will be a GOOD thing.


Wow. So what are you? Are we conversing with a higher life form here on Queenzone?

You've been following me, haven't you, Font Color Quinn?

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/DN-ufosighting_15tex.ART.State.Edition1.37d63d5.html

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Posted: 15 Jan 08, 11:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

HistoryGirl wrote:

They are just now figuring this out? I would think it would be fairly common sense to anyone. I mean, you burn coal and things, which releases the particles into the air, and they are just now thinking that "Gee...maybe they are blocking out the sun's rays because they are in the way?"


Ok HistoryGirl, but the common sense also says we've been doing this for thousands and thousands of years... "destroying" the earth in some form or fashion.

Here are some things that nobody is doing anything about:
1. Dinosaurs.
They caused more destruction on this planet but were allowed to roam free with no restrictions for "thousands and thousands of years". Now, they are a source of oil.

2. The Space Program.
Do you know how much trash is orbiting the Earth and flushed out into space? We're talking about the Landfill to end all landfills. And we've been shooting things up there for many years now.

3. Brad Pitt
More and more wasting goes on with the promotion of this guy's agenda that could be better spent recycling things worth while. Have you seen the houses in New Orleans that big Brad is building? Houses right next to areas that haven't been cleaned up and aren't going to get cleaned up for another two years. Why not clean up the city first? Use some of that money paid to finance Brad to do that.

Point is, we've become a society that wants to show that we're doing something for our future. In reality, recycling is NOT cost effective yet, and we should be concentrating on getting that done instead of wasting and throwing away money to do little or no good.

How bout you guys read the latest issue of National Geographic or some other credible news source (You listening Font Color Quinn)??? Instead of your source being "common sense" or "scientists say". That's because we haven't proved a hole in the ozone layer exists. We just tell everybody it's there and just going to get bigger unless you buy these more expensive environmentally friendly products (that are usually housed in something that ISN'T RECYCLABLE!!!)



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Posted: 15 Jan 08, 11:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Its called evolution.


Chom own mudder fukker.
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Posted: 15 Jan 08, 13:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Micrówave wrote:

HistoryGirl wrote:

They are just now figuring this out? I would think it would be fairly common sense to anyone. I mean, you burn coal and things, which releases the particles into the air, and they are just now thinking that "Gee...maybe they are blocking out the sun's rays because they are in the way?"


Ok HistoryGirl, but the common sense also says we've been doing this for thousands and thousands of years... "destroying" the earth in some form or fashion.

Here are some things that nobody is doing anything about:
1. Dinosaurs.
They caused more destruction on this planet but were allowed to roam free with no restrictions for "thousands and thousands of years". Now, they are a source of oil.

2. The Space Program.
Do you know how much trash is orbiting the Earth and flushed out into space? We're talking about the Landfill to end all landfills. And we've been shooting things up there for many years now.

3. Brad Pitt
More and more wasting goes on with the promotion of this guy's agenda that could be better spent recycling things worth while. Have you seen the houses in New Orleans that big Brad is building? Houses right next to areas that haven't been cleaned up and aren't going to get cleaned up for another two years. Why not clean up the city first? Use some of that money paid to finance Brad to do that.

Point is, we've become a society that wants to show that we're doing something for our future. In reality, recycling is NOT cost effective yet, and we should be concentrating on getting that done instead of wasting and throwing away money to do little or no good.

How bout you guys read the latest issue of National Geographic or some other credible news source (You listening Font Color Quinn)??? Instead of your source being "common sense" or "scientists say". That's because we haven't proved a hole in the ozone layer exists. We just tell everybody it's there and just going to get bigger unless you buy these more expensive environmentally friendly products (that are usually housed in something that ISN'T RECYCLABLE!!!)



I'd respond but I have to go to the hospital now...my cousin was just admitted. I'll get back to this later



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Posted: 15 Jan 08, 14:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hope everything's OK or it's just mental. Looking forward to a nice discussion again.

By the way, here's a link supporting the fact that we're not making a dent here.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/2008-01/high-tech-trash/recycling-text.html

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Posted: 15 Jan 08, 15:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Global warming is not about recycling, it's about reducing CO2. It's true that the industry hops on the bandwagon providing for "environmentally friendly products" just to make the average guy who thinks "something must be done" feel better.

I don't think anyone with a normal IQ still says that global warming is not happening or that it's not man-made. The problem is

1. nobody really knows how to stop it

2. it does not affect our generation, so why should we drastically change our economy and our life style just to preserve the planet for future generations when we don't change our life style to stop hunger and misery in this world today

3. it needs an international effort and we all know what that means: blaming the other nations, endless climate conferences and no results.

I believe that the human race is doomed because they are unable to solve ANY problems together. Everyone is hoping that it will hit the other continent first and nothing too bad will happen during our life time.


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Posted: 15 Jan 08, 15:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

We could use a green Stalin now.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Jake? wrote: I want him to shove it down my throat and shoot. Shoot! Shoot! C'mon! SHOOT! SHOOT!

[/QUOTENAME]



[/QUOTE]







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Posted: 15 Jan 08, 16:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

YourValentine wrote:


2. it does not affect our generation, so why should we drastically change our economy and our life style just to preserve the planet for future generations when we don't change our life style to stop hunger and misery in this world today



I don't think that's exactly true, some scientists are estimating that the average temperature of earth could increase by 4 or 5 degress celsius within the next 50 to 100 years. Although that was them outlining the worst case scenario if i remember correctly.

You're right though, the human race is doomed. We really are such an arrogant, naive and flawed species.



Crazy Little Thing Called Love....
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Posted: 15 Jan 08, 16:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

YourValentine wrote:


I don't think anyone with a normal IQ still says that global warming is not happening or that it's not man-made.


Although there seems to be a partially substantiated "consensus" that global warming exists, there is no such evidence to conclude the degree by which it is caused by humans. Any evidence that does exist is entirely inconclusive, pointing in every which way. For instance, the vast majority of the most potent greenhouse gases are entirely natural. If you add global dimming into the mix, wouldn't that indicate that humans are rather abating global warming?

Edit:

Few quick summary points here:
-Correlation (unclear if any such exists) =/= Causation
-Science is not a democratic process. It doesn't matter how many people or scientists agree upon something, regardless of their credentials. All that matters are results gleaned from scientific processes using the scientific method.


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
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Posted: 15 Jan 08, 16:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color=black>@ndy<font color=red>38 wrote:


You're right though, the human race is doomed. We really are such an arrogant, naive and flawed species.


Isn't it presumptuous to assume that a simple increase in temperature is sufficient to doom the human race?

The earth changes all the time. Those that can adapt live, and those that cannot die. Then the earth populates itself once again. I'll put my money on the human race when it comes to a small temperature increase. Now, nuclear war? Maybe not so much.


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
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Posted: 15 Jan 08, 16:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color=666600><b>Music Man wrote:

<font color=black>@ndy<font color=red>38 wrote:


You're right though, the human race is doomed. We really are such an arrogant, naive and flawed species.


Isn't it presumptuous to assume that a simple increase in temperature is sufficient to doom the human race?

The earth changes all the time. Those that can adapt live, and those that cannot die. Then the earth populates itself once again. I'll put my money on the human race when it comes to a small temperature increase. Now, nuclear war? Maybe not so much.


I wasn't exactly reffering to global warming to our downfall, it was just me showing my infinite pessimism towards the human race :)



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Posted: 15 Jan 08, 18:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color=black>@ndy<font color=red>38 wrote:

<font color=666600><b>Music Man wrote:

<font color=black>@ndy<font color=red>38 wrote:


You're right though, the human race is doomed. We really are such an arrogant, naive and flawed species.


Isn't it presumptuous to assume that a simple increase in temperature is sufficient to doom the human race?

The earth changes all the time. Those that can adapt live, and those that cannot die. Then the earth populates itself once again. I'll put my money on the human race when it comes to a small temperature increase. Now, nuclear war? Maybe not so much.


I wasn't exactly reffering to global warming to our downfall, it was just me showing my infinite pessimism towards the human race :)


Ah, now that makes sense.


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
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Posted: 16 Jan 08, 03:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The "simple increase of temperature" has serious consequences: draught, erosion, rising of the sea level, floods which lead to hunger, homelessness, poverty etc.

I think there is not much use in discussing the issue with people who keep telling us there is no "proof". There have been attempts to reduce CO2 emissions in Europe since the 90s. Here people do not "believe" in global warming - it's accepted as a fact rather than a theory. It's accepted because temperature can be measured and weather can be described. The dramatic rise of CO2 emission since the 19th century is nothing natural, it's a direct result of the industrialization. I am really surprised there are still people who deny it.


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Posted: 16 Jan 08, 10:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

YourValentine wrote:

I think there is not much use in discussing the issue with people who keep telling us there is no "proof"..... I am really surprised there are still people who deny it.


Geez, Barb, that's a pretty "give up" stance. I expected more from you, but the fact is there is NO PROOF. I'm still waiting for someone to give a link to some kind of factual results.

Now, all of the sudden, your scientists, that you believe (without factual evidence, I might add), seem to know EXACTLY what's going to happen to the Earth.
The temperature is rising so the Earth is going to implode

How can we know that? How can scientists make a hypothetical guess and you (and countless millions) take it as FACT.

We've got scientists that can predict that stuff? That's incredible!!! Then why is there a problem? If they're so smart, why isn't their some kind of potion they've invented that will make it all better?

So, basically your argument, Barbara, is essentially:
Global warming is destroying the Earth and THAT IS A FACT.


Still doesn't change the FACT that it costs more to recycle a plastic bottle than it does to produce it. And what happens to that bottle during the recycling process? Carbon emissions are released into the atmosphere.

So it has A LOT to do with that as well.