Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > How do you steal a 24 track recording?

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coops user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 06 Feb 08, 11:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote


After reading the very interesting thread on the legality of owning and distributing stolen material, I thought " how do people get this stuff in the first place"?

I do not work in or around a recording studio, but I am sure that tapes are kept in environmentally controlled rooms under lock and key. Even digitized tracks must be treated like gold. Am I wrong? Is this stuff laying around on the canteen table? Of course not.

Perhaps studios do not require a screening process for their staff, or precautions are not made when tapes/files are moved from one location to another. But it keeps happening.

I am a huge Beatles fan and every year more and more great quality studio material makes it's way to my favorite Peruvian file distributer for only $2 per cd's worth. This stuff comes out of Abbey Road for Gods sake. They must have some kind of open door policy.

Perhaps David Richards, Mack, and George Martin don't get paid enough and they leak the stuff out.

Perhaps someone can give me some insight as to how this is seemingly so easy.

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Posted: 06 Feb 08, 12:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Stolen is not the correct term (this is just what my gut tells me).
Some clever sod did not take the original master tapes home with him for a sneaky conversion. Obviously, these .wav files were on a computer somewhere for a remastering in some past project (a Queen 5.1 DVD no doubt?) and someone rather slyly copied it when no one else was looking....

That's just my guess, but it doesn't sound too outlandish. Stranger things have happened; I heard someone was let into the morgue with John Lennon in it and was able to video-tape him.
Could be nonsense, but the point is that we're being hypothetical! It 'could' happen.


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
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Posted: 06 Feb 08, 12:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

coops wrote:

Perhaps someone can give me some insight as to how this is seemingly so easy.


Think about it: after 32 1/2 years a 'Bo Rhap' master-tape content surfaces. That's not "seemingly so easy", is it?


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 06 Feb 08, 12:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

according to Bob:

"I've actually known about it for a couple years. Berkeley students used the KQ multi-track as a school project, and someone must have snagged a copy."

from the topic in wich poochute shared the 24 track Killer Queen


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Posted: 06 Feb 08, 13:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

But both Bob and Adam have mentioned people seemingly legitimately playing around with these masters, in public, professional environments. In Bob's case, students on some music course in Canada or the States, and in Adam's case, some guy who worked for Apple at some kind of audio expo (forgive me if the details are slightly wrong).

I've no idea how these things work really, but I find it hard to believe that these masters would be aired so publically (in the aforementioned circumstances) if they were obtained by dodgy means. But equally, I find it very hard to imagine Jim Beach sanctioning the copying and loaning of these extremely valuable mastertapes. However, if that did happen, I think it much more likely that these leaked masters come from these sources, rather than through anyone directly connected to Queen and their associates.

I really don't know either way.



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Posted: 06 Feb 08, 14:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I would think Producers and Engineers would make their own backup masters, which would essentially be masters. Ted Templemann always did. That's why I never believe an artist when they say they've lost the only master recording of something.

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Posted: 06 Feb 08, 15:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Micrówave wrote:

I would think Producers and Engineers would make their own backup masters, which would essentially be masters. Ted Templemann always did. That's why I never believe an artist when they say they've lost the only master recording of something.


Maybe Ted can release the Van Halen box by himself :-)

Take care

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Adam Baboolal
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Posted: 06 Feb 08, 21:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I just realised Bohardy was talking about me in his post. Well, I did find that there was a guy doing 5.1 demonstrations of Bohemian Rhapsody and Death On Two Legs. My theory would be that someone snagged a copy of the tracks when no-one was around. It's totally possible, isn't it?

Adam.

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Posted: 07 Feb 08, 02:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The last decade has seen many artists Multitrack & 2 Track Masters transfered to one digital storage medium or another. Often several back-up or saftey copies are made. If a better digital storage medium becomes available with a higher resolution or what-not, the Masters may be transfered yet again. So now we have multiple Digital Copies of Original Masters easily accessible to f"the wrong kind of people" who happen to be "in the right place at the right time" so-to-speak.
By the way, someone mentioned the "killer queen" multitrack earlier on in this thread.... quite stunning... really!
e.


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Posted: 07 Feb 08, 02:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hey "coops" i ment to address some of your concerns.
<"I am sure that tapes are kept in environmentally controlled rooms under lock and key. Even digitized tracks must be treated like gold. Am I wrong? Is this stuff laying around on the canteen table? Of course not.">

I do work in the industry... sadly its all pretty much there for the taking .. if yer in the right place at the right time!

e.


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Posted: 07 Feb 08, 04:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The real thing to remember here is that we should do whatever it takes to stop cunts making money from this kind of thing on eBay. Keep an eye open.

Either these recordings are supressed from high up and no one gets them, or they should be as free to all as they were to us!
(Noble face).


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
Benn user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 07 Feb 08, 05:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Zebonka12, re:

>>The real thing to remember here is that we should do whatever it takes to stop cunts making money from this kind of thing on eBay. Keep an eye open.

Why? What can you do other than not bid on them. If someone wants to offer up something like this, then let them. If people are stupid enough to bid on them, who are we to say what they should spend their money on?

>>Either these recordings are supressed from high up and no one gets them

It's tough to be able to supress something that's already leaked and floating around "on the market", but I do see your point.

I've always been a subscriber to the conspiracy theory of management / band / producers / enngineers / private collectors actually allowing bits and pieces of rarities to escape from time to time, just for the simplicity of keeping interest and demand at a certain level amongst collectors.

>>or they should be as free to all as they were to us!
(Noble face).

As much as you may want this, it's never going to happen. You get nothing for free - ever. And why should it?


Benn
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Posted: 07 Feb 08, 08:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Why? What can you do other than not bid on them. If someone wants to offer up something like this, then let them. If people are stupid enough to bid on them, who are we to say what they should spend their money on?"

I guess my morals are skewiff, but I really don't have a problem with the handing around of rare material, unless money gets made from it. Charging for demos and bootlegs is just stupid, and more likely to piss off the high-up people.
That's just my perception though, I guess whether it's free or not has little to do with anything...

"As much as you may want this, it's never going to happen. You get nothing for free - ever. And why should it?"

... I got this 24 track for free!!
Is that a philosophical statement about it always costing something for 'someone', or did you literally mean that I will never get anything for free?


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
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Posted: 07 Feb 08, 09:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Zebonka12, re:

>I guess my morals are skewiff, but I really >don't have a problem with the handing around of >rare material, unless money gets made from it. >Charging for demos and bootlegs is just stupid, >and more likely to piss off the high-up people.

Not at all. I'll pay for a bootleg if I believe it's worth the money. My freedom of choice allows me to make that decision on an informed basis given what I know about Queen and what is / isn't available. I would certainly have paid for a CD that contained the 24 individual tracks for Bohemian Rhapsody as I believe it to be THAT interesting and (not having heard the tracks yet) valuable. Less likely for Killer Queen given that I dont like the song; I'd have been driven by price on a CD boot of that one.

The fact that people choose to make material like this available free is great and keeps that many more people happy, but I fully understand someone's need to charge for something if has cost them something in the first place. I certainly never expect anything to be made available for nothing.

>... I got this 24 track for free!!
>Is that a philosophical statement about it >always costing something for 'someone', or did >you literally mean that I will never get >anything for free?

Literally. You didn't get the 24 track for free. You presumably turned your PC on and paid for the ISP, electricity, software and hardware to enable the download. Before that you turned the light on in your room. Before that you put the kettle on for a cup of tea etc etc.

It costs you money to simply be awake.


Benn
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Posted: 07 Feb 08, 09:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Zebonka12 wrote:

The real thing to remember here is that we should do whatever it takes to stop cunts making money from this kind of thing on eBay. Keep an eye open.

Either these recordings are supressed from high up and no one gets them, or they should be as free to all as they were to us!
(Noble face).


I agree with everything you've said. Official stuff should be store-bought. Unofficial stuff should be shared and never, ever sold!

Benn wrote:

I've always been a subscriber to the conspiracy theory of management / band / producers / enngineers / private collectors actually allowing bits and pieces of rarities to escape from time to time, just for the simplicity of keeping interest and demand at a certain level amongst collectors.


I know what you mean. I've always thought so too. Maybe I'm assuming too much, but I've always had the feeling that the Freddie and Michael Jackson tracks were leaked by Greg Brooks or someone else high up when they couldn't get permission to include them in the Freddie Solo Collection. As a silent gesture of goodwill toward us fans.

V.



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Posted: 07 Feb 08, 10:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

bigV wrote:

Benn wrote:

I've always been a subscriber to the conspiracy theory of management / band / producers / enngineers / private collectors actually allowing bits and pieces of rarities to escape from time to time, just for the simplicity of keeping interest and demand at a certain level amongst collectors.


I know what you mean. I've always thought so too. Maybe I'm assuming too much, but I've always had the feeling that the Freddie and Michael Jackson tracks were leaked by Greg Brooks or someone else high up when they couldn't get permission to include them in the Freddie Solo Collection. As a silent gesture of goodwill toward us fans.

V.

Well... Courtney Love was well pissed off at Dave Grohl when she noticed that the unreleased Kurt Cobain tracks she didn't want him to release were available for free on the internet...

Way to go, Dave! ;)


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Posted: 08 Feb 08, 08:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

easy:

1. hire white van and buy overalls
2. phone EMI check GB is as lunch
3. enter EMI building, tell desk clerk you are here to collect confidential waste from QPL offices
4. enter archives, put anything labelled "multitracks" into a big white confidential waste sacks
5. leave building and ensure you sign out at desk
6. examine your heist and place on ebay


go deo na hÉireann
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Posted: 08 Feb 08, 09:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

There's an easier form:

1. Wait for someone to upload multi-tracks
2. Download
3. Sell to naive victims


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 08 Feb 08, 10:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Brenski- I don't think they are in EMI building for some reason... ;)

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Posted: 08 Feb 08, 10:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

BigV, re:

>leaked by Greg Brooks or someone else high up when they couldn't get permission to include them in the Freddie Solo Collection. As a silent gesture of goodwill toward us fans.

Don't be fooled by Greg - he's nothing more than a puppet whose strings are pulled by the organisation above him. Given his constant lack of ability to *get things right* and *theft* of other people's information, I don't believe for a second that he'd have the humility to appease collectors even if he was told to by higher powers.

Greg likes the control he has over *us* to the extent he does and, in all honesty, who wouldn't?


Benn