Forums > Personal > A hypothetical question regarding religion and education.

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-fatty- 2850 user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 14:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Imagine if you will, that one of your kids comes home from school and tells you that a couple of folk from the church of scientology had been invited to give a talk, show a DVD and hand out leaflets promoting a camp you could send them to. Would that sort of thing worry you?

fatty.

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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 15:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It depends.

Will the little tykes be issued with rotten tomatoes in adavnce?

-fatty- 2850 user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 15:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

They've already been. That's another factor to take into consideration. We as the parents weren't even informed until after the fact.

fatty.

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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 15:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

fatty wrote:

We as the parents weren't even informed until after the fact.

fatty.


That's disgusting. I assume there was a parental uproar after the fact, yes? I would be livid. It's no different than lecturing the kids or showing them videos of some other cult or religious sect. Do you know in what context this 'lesson' was given?



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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 16:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yes, that would bother me. Any religion aiming themselves at my child would bother me though.

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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 16:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

they didn't want to let everyone know that tom cruise was coming to town, so they kept it on the lowdown.


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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 16:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I would be absolutely furious.


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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 16:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As usual, the typical hysterical reaction from the unenlightened about the harmless religion of Scientology. When I was a kid we went to these meetings too and it hasn't had any effect on me at all.

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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 16:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

fatty wrote:

Imagine if you will, that one of your kids comes home from school and tells you that a couple of folk from the church of scientology had been invited to give a talk, show a DVD and hand out leaflets promoting a camp you could send them to. Would that sort of thing worry you?

fatty.


Yes.


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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 16:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It depends on how old my kid is.

But let's say he/she is a teenager.

I would not approve if they'd only invite one religious group to spread their shitty propaganda.

If they're going to invite scientologists, they should invite some catholics, hindus, muslims, etc as well.



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-fatty- 2850 user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 17:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As it happens there were no scientologists. I just used them as an example of a religious sect that provokes a typical knee-jerk reaction.
What actually happened was that my 10 year old daughter came home from school with a brochure for a scripture union camp and asked if she could go. Of course she thinks it's going to be all volleyball, swimming and songs around the campfire. What pisses me off slightly is that someone thought it would be a good idea to waste an afternoon that should have been spent educating them on allowing a couple of god-botherers to try selling thier beliefs to young children. You'll have to pardon me if I start to sound like a Daily Mail reader, but I send my kids to school to learn how to read, write, count and make the odd elbow macaroni picture. Not to be bothered by catholics, hindus, jews, muslims or athiests flogging cheap holidays to the promised land.
Or am I just getting old and grumpy?

fatty.

fatty.

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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 17:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'd honestly worry more about the fact that the parents were never asked about this. I would be livid myself.

But this is what I would do: You don't want to ban your kids from listening to it, there wouldn't be a point to it anyway. So let your kids go to the talk, and make sure to tell them to bring home the information they get. Then, when they get home, sit down with them and have a talk, using the leaflets. Now appears to be a good time not only to introduce to them the concept of religion, but also the concept of the fact that people will say anything to sell their point of view. Turn this into a teaching experience to show them that before they decide anything, they need to think carefully about all aspects and take everything into account.


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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 17:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

One has to look at these sects' point of view as well. Their main goal is to attract new members. But when it comes to attempting to attract kids who cannot judge on their own what their next step should be, that is pretty damn low and desperate to a certain extent. So I think you are entitled to feel the way you do.


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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 18:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I never went to camp. We had all "family vacations" - but some pretty amazing adventures.

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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 18:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Some interesting points being made. I have spoken to my kids about religion on a number of occasions but I'm hardly what you'd call an expert on the subject. I've tried to bring them up to be tolerant of other people's beliefs and I have no objections to them learning about the different religions of the world. What I find disgusting is that these people were allowed to take up the kids valuable time trying to sell their own beliefs in the form of a week's holiday. I'm tempted to take the brochure back to my daughter's shool, rolling it up and inserting it into the headmistress unlubricated but I don't want to appear dogmatic.
Time for a smoke and ponder methinks.

fatty.



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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 19:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Why not ask her if you can arrange for your Satanist chums to pop over for an afternoon? If she refuses, go to the press citing institutional sectarianism.

Oh hang on, you're in Scotland....

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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 19:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

welcome to "Togdom" Fatty, it happens to us all in the end...
time to listen to Wogan and Ken Bruce in the mornings.
*passes pamphlet on the virtues of Togdom*

in all seriousness it comes down to conforminism and the school playing the religon card.at 10 years old you can still decide what religon, if any, she should follow,so i wouldnt send her on this school trip but..
if she really,really wants to go then let her and ask her how it went once she comes back,you never know she might see through the religous nonsense.
*climbs off soapbox*


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im gonna ride the wild wind!

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joxer replies: but in a nice way :-]

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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 20:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Free Xenu!!!

No really, just show people what happened to Lisa McPherson. They'd stay away from $cientology.

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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 21:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm not sure what the equivalent to a public school would be in the UK, but the public school district that I work at would never allow any religious or faith based organization to give a presentation. Religion and school are to be separated in public education in the USA.

I receive donations of winter coats every Fall from a church that puts Christian books in boxes with the coats. I have to take the books out of the boxes the coats are in before I can give a new coat to a needy child. I am not allowed to give them to the children bc not all students may be Christian, some are Muslim, some are Buddist, some are Jehovah's Witness, and some are Atheist. If I gave them a Christian book, it might offend a family of another religion. I am allowed to donate the books to the inner city Catholic schools and Christian schools. The church that donates the coats to me knows this and they are ok with it and they know where the books end up, they are just happy that a child will stay warm. To me, that is true faith and not trying to recruit or place their believes on others who might not share the same.

Back on the subject, schools here have to have so many instructional time minutes. It doesn't sound like to me this was instructional time and yes, I would object to it fatty watty.

Up the arse I say with the brochure.


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Posted: 09 Feb 08, 22:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Wait until your daughter attends Secondary school - because in Scotland it gets worse!

As part of some do-goody Governmental panderings, she will have to study RPMS (Religious Philosophical Moral Studies), which is basically a charter to allow all sorts of nutters into schools - so that we can learn to tolerate the beliefs of others. With pat sayings like 'kick racism out of Scotland' and 'multiculuralism is multicultured'.

What a load of bollox!

My own, (now married daughter) used to run home from school to tell me how I was the anti-christ because I ate meat - and how I was racist because (Hands up I am guilty here) I used to support every other team who played against England. (I know, I know, but if we can't get to the world cup on our own why should... but that's a different argument).

After reminding her that we Scots and the English were both Aryan and therefore from the same race, and that I could be a nationalist but NOT racist, I then asked her if she truely believed in multiculuralism. This (because of her RPMS training) she defended to the hilt.

It was great to ask her loaded questions like - so you think that it would be good for some women in the UK to walk three paces behind their husbands? You believe it is fine to have a marriage arranged for you without your consent? You would accept that thieves in the UK could have their hands amputated - or the clincher for most feminists - do you accept female circumcision in a Western society?

It was fun to watch her head spin like the exorcist as she tried to rationalise such questions in her own mind.

Me? I too am a live-and-let-live type of guy. I really am a liberal (in the non-political sense) at heart. But I am finding it increasingly difficult to accept all this state-pushing idealogy of equality for all, because let's be frank, I too think that kids should be protected from all this clap-trap, and that religion should not be part of the state education system.







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