Forums > Queen - General Discussion > do you think Queen would have been more popular if Freddie wasn't gay?

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Posted: 21 Feb 08, 21:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hey just wondering how many ppl out there think Queen would have been more successful if Freddie wasn't gay

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Posted: 21 Feb 08, 21:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

From my knowledge and observations, Freddie’s sexuality wasn’t that obvious in the 70’s. Many bands of the time dressed in a simular style, perhaps with more volume, and sexual ambiguity was in, looking like women in bands were in. Aerosmith, one of Americans most recognised and popular bands of all time had simular styles to Queen.

I think it was the music that really mattered above all. I wouldn’t say Freddie’s sexuality would have made a strong impact. Today, Queen is more popular than ever. But I could be mistaken.


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Posted: 21 Feb 08, 22:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I certainly think that Freddie's sexuality was apparant to folks in the US in 79/80 or thereabouts, and, unfortunately, my observation is that it DID impact their popularity in the US. I'm not certain WHY folks in the US seemed to be more aware, and, obsessed in a negative way with this.


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Posted: 22 Feb 08, 01:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Had Freddie not been gay, Queen wouldn't have existed... it was all him... the way he thought and the things he had to deal with, were all pretty much part of queen...

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Posted: 22 Feb 08, 04:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Not to negative but if Freddie wasn't gay he probably would still be on tour today. In the Ninetees and twentees AIDS is among all kind of people. In the eightees is was very much a disease spread by African and gay people. How hard it may sound, it's the truth.


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Posted: 22 Feb 08, 04:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Queenman!! wrote:

No to negative but if Freddie wasn't gay he probably would still be on tour today. In the Ninetees and twentees AIDS is among all kind of people. In the eightees is was very much a disease spread by African and gay people. How hard it may sound, it's the truth.


Im straying of the posters initiall topic in which we may need to make a separate thread, But that does bring up an interesting topic, and to ask who could possible bring up an answers.

Being that aids was known to have its origins in Africa,how did it evolve to the extent where it consumed lives. What’s more, why was this more common with gay men in the 80’s than any other sexual life stlye?

Is there a logical link between the two?


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Posted: 22 Feb 08, 06:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Other hypothetical but nevertheless interesting questions that I often ask myself are:

What if Fred hadn´t been gay. Do you think the Village People would have been more popular if he had joined ´em right from the start? Would they still be touring?

Wouldn´t it be nice listening to David Hodo and Freddie singing La Japonaise live in Japan?

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Posted: 22 Feb 08, 07:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

...ASSDUDE.... wrote:

Queenman!! wrote:

Not to negative but if Freddie wasn't gay he probably would still be on tour today. In the Ninetees and twentees AIDS is among all kind of people. In the eightees is was very much a disease spread by African and gay people. How hard it may sound, it's the truth.


Im straying of the posters initiall topic in which we may need to make a separate thread, But that does bring up an interesting topic, and to ask who could possible bring up an answers.

Being that aids was known to have its origins in Africa,how did it evolve to the extent where it consumed lives. What’s more, why was this more common with gay men in the 80’s than any other sexual life stlye?

Is there a logical link between the two?


I think there is a logical link. There have be several studies based on sexual behavior of gay people. I'm not want to judge or discriminate on a certain group, but as far I know,even Freddie stated some time: Darling, I do everything with everybody and I f##k them all. Well....

Even studies and research proof that condoms are not very populair in the gay community. Really an interessting topic I think.....


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Posted: 22 Feb 08, 08:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Assuming Fred got HIV from another man, if Fred weren't gay, he probably wouldn't have died from AIDS (which still doesn't mean he'd still be alive). And in that case, Queen wouldn't be as popular as they became (note that many many many many people were 'converted' to Queenism AFTER Lord Teeth kicked it).


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 22 Feb 08, 08:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Get a life.

We judge a cake on its own merits.
Not from the baker's sexuality.

If a cake is p*sh = little or no sales.
If a cake is good = lots of sales.
The sexuality of the baker is usually unknown (and of little relevance) to the consumer.

How could globally giant tracks like 'Another One Bites The Dust' or 'We Will Rock You' be even more popular?
To suggest they could have been 'bigger hits' if Freddie was straight is just idiotic in the extreme.

I suppose you would apply the same homo-prejudices to Plato, Alexander the Great, Michelangelo Merisi da Caravaggio, Leonardo da Vinci, Sir Isaac Newton, Peter Ilyich Tchaikovsky, Tennessee Williams, Cole Porter, Brian Epstein, Ian McKellen or even George Michael, Boy George and Elton John?

I am not gay.
I do not care a rat's ar*e if Freddie was Bi/Tri or quadroplegically sexually orientated.
I judge all art on its individual merits.
Some Queen sucks, some Queen is fine, but for me, most times Queen are an excellent rock band. It is that simple.
To bring sex into the equation is not only a red-herring, but an issue not worth discussing.

As I said: Get a life.


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Posted: 22 Feb 08, 08:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sure John, but not everybody thinks the same. For some, music is some sort of extremist religious doctrine: if you like punk, you can't like metal; if you like Beatles, you can't like Stones; if you like 'macho' bands, you can't like Queen; if you like the so-called 'classic rock', you can't like the 80's, 90's or 00's; if you like classical, you can't like jazz. All of those 'rules' are stupid, but in thousands (or even millions) of cases, they apply, unfortunately.

Denying that the homophobic factor was crucial for Queen's backlash would be ridiculous.

Most people, in the 21st century, when literacy is (relatively) common, when millions of men and women get undegraduate degrees, PhD's and stuff... millions still judge the cake by their bias against the baker, not by its own merit. Racism, xenophobia, elitism, etc. are current phenomena, which have been modernised, but haven't disappeared at all.


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 22 Feb 08, 08:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:


Denying that the homophobic factor was crucial for Queen's backlash would be ridiculous.


I disagree Seb.
If we follow common logic that '...Break Free' was the track which 'killed' Queen in the US (and hence globally) then, I think this is an inaccurate assumption.
They had already missed the boat with both 'Flash' and 'Hot Space' being poor selling albums. I think this decline in sales was (frankly) due to p*sh product - and not sexuality.

By the time '...Break Free' hit the US, Queen were ALREADY in free-fall, and another has-been 70's band. (My point is that Queen did NOT dramatically or instantly fall from the top of the table, BUT rather, were already in full tumble mode).

Now, I accept your point that '...Break Free' may well have been the cherry on the cake, and was indeed the straw that finally broke the camel's back (and all other similarly related metaphors) and that this may well have been the result of homophobic sexual prejudices. I really can not argue against this.

But I still say that the 'beginning of the end' had very little to do with sex or homophobia - but getting the US market wrong by recording (by their own high standards) what was little more than pop-muzak drivel.


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Posted: 22 Feb 08, 08:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:


Most people, in the 21st century, when literacy is (relatively) common, when millions of men and women get undegraduate degrees, PhD's and stuff... millions still judge the cake by their bias against the baker, not by its own merit. Racism, xenophobia, elitism, etc. are current phenomena, which have been modernised, but haven't disappeared at all.


Sadly, this is so true. As a music lover, I can see you are more interested in the art - than the artist. (Although it is interesting to find where the artist draws his inspiration from). Nevertheless, we can both judge art on its own merits - regardless of petty prejudices - or tribal instincts.

Sadly, I also expect this 'standard' in others too. So to attribute the decline of Queen to Freddie's sexuality - for me - is nonesense.
I do accept that it may have been a contributory factor, and I also accept that the answer to the question of Queen's decline is both long and complicated. (So I do not really dismiss your views).

However, I sometimes get frustrated by the glib simplicity of such theories - especially when they are so frequently rolled out as definitive answers.
But I guess that says more about me, than it does about the question!


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 22 Feb 08, 08:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The sexual side should never come into it at all.

I went to see Queen because IMHO they were four extremely talented musicians who graced that stage and whose musical abilities complimented one another on stage.And in Freddie they had the complete showman/entertainer and slighly blemished idol

Would you have liked Jimi Hendrix any less if he admitted he was gay.

I'm like John S Stuart on that side.I couldnt give a toss about Freddie's sexual orientation.


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to haunt my days.
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Posted: 22 Feb 08, 09:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

NO.


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Posted: 22 Feb 08, 09:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:

Sure John, but not everybody thinks the same. For some, music is some sort of extremist religious doctrine: if you like punk, you can't like metal; if you like Beatles, you can't like Stones; if you like 'macho' bands, you can't like Queen; if you like the so-called 'classic rock', you can't like the 80's, 90's or 00's; if you like classical, you can't like jazz. All of those 'rules' are stupid, but in thousands (or even millions) of cases, they apply, unfortunately.

Denying that the homophobic factor was crucial for Queen's backlash would be ridiculous.

Most people, in the 21st century, when literacy is (relatively) common, when millions of men and women get undegraduate degrees, PhD's and stuff... millions still judge the cake by their bias against the baker, not by its own merit. Racism, xenophobia, elitism, etc. are current phenomena, which have been modernised, but haven't disappeared at all.



What hurts me most is - how is it possible to change that?
It hurts me so much in what state our world is today... I'm studying philosophy like mad to change myself, to 'surrender my ego' and become 'good' to help the people...
After all we're living in ONE world, breathing ONE air and have the same range of feeling so that there is literally 'ONE love'...

Sorry to have posted that but I felt the need to do so - as to "Freddie" and "gay" I'm so tired of this topic...
But I feel that there is so much more going on in the music business than we can imagine - probably 'envious and greedy business-sharks' still have more saying than we, ordinary people... (regarding Queen's popularity)

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Posted: 22 Feb 08, 09:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

> If we follow common logic that '...Break Free' was the track which 'killed' Queen in the US (and hence globally) then, I think this is an inaccurate assumption.

I agree.

> I think this decline in sales was (frankly) due to p*sh product - and not sexuality.

I agree.

> Now, I accept your point that '...Break Free' may well have been the cherry on the cake

If by 'you' you mean 'me', that's not (and never was) my point. If not, then skip this line ;)

> But I still say that the 'beginning of the end' had very little to do with sex or homophobia

The 'beginning of the end' would surely be different for each listener. My point is that a strong (not a 100%, not the only) point for the backlash was related to sexuality. Another would be, for instance, Roger's, John's and even Freddie's underrated skills as instrumentalists, or how the audience pigeonholed the band for songs like 'Ga Ga' or 'Break Free' (both of which were composed by heterosexual blokes), etc.

> Sadly, I also expect this 'standard' in others too.

So do I, but in the process I'm only bound to face more and more personal disappointments.

> So to attribute the decline of Queen to Freddie's sexuality - for me - is nonesense.

It is - Queen didn't decline because Fred was gay. Their public image, their prestige and their quality went downhill in a wide complex process, where increasing homophobia (due to sociological factors, rather than musical) was a pivotal feature, but of course not the only.

> I do accept that it may have been a contributory factor, and I also accept that the answer to the question of Queen's decline is both long and complicated. (So I do not really dismiss your views).

I agree with every word.


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 22 Feb 08, 10:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Seb: So at least two of us have some sanity.
Pity about the rest of the board!

(Runs away and hides in some safe underground bunker!)


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 22 Feb 08, 11:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I dont think it would had still saved freddies life if he wasnt gay either,you can still pick up aids from unprotective sex from same or different sexes

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Posted: 22 Feb 08, 11:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Dusta wrote:

I certainly think that Freddie's sexuality was apparant to folks in the US in 79/80 or thereabouts, and, unfortunately, my observation is that it DID impact their popularity in the US. I'm not certain WHY folks in the US seemed to be more aware, and, obsessed in a negative way with this.


have to disagree with you completely. Queen had their biggest-selling US album of all time (the Game) during this period, and the singles Crazy Little Thing...and Another Bites the Dust...both topped the US charts. Queen also topped the dance and R&B charts at this time with these two singles...

the US went off queen NOT because of any gay connotations...but because THEY thought the Hot Space album was shite. from that point on Queen lost the US and NEVER got that audience back


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