Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > A request to the moderator(s)

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pittrek user not visiting Queenzone.com
pittrek
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Posted: 03 Mar 08, 07:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Since more and more idiots are visiting this site and sharing and/or requesting officially released material I would like to openly ask Richard and / or Barbara and any other responsible person(s) to write simple idiot-proof rules what CAN and what CAN'T be shared here.
Maybe even a complete list of forbidden stuff would be great for the newbies.

To me it seams to be a required thing after the mess with the multitrack tapes.
What do you think ?

I know that you people don't want to ban lossy material, which I don't agree, but I DO respect, but I think it's time to definitely BAN official stuff

Queenrockyou user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 03 Mar 08, 09:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Excellent question raised by Pittrek.
Since I had some hard moments (and still have some) with my computer, I couldn't access Queenzone for a while. I jumped on the occasion to go visiting some other forums, especially one about Deep Purple (& related bands, there are so much DP-related !!!).
The forum I visited seems to be the most important one about Deep Purple, and I couldn't help comparing with Queenzone. They have some bad things (the rule "don't share this lossless files in a lossy format" can't apply, and in fact a lot of gigs are shared in mp3, except some true collectors who still share as Flac). But there are two or three things that are really helpful :
1 / they show a list of all the official stuff and all what can't be shared. That's a real great guide for beginners, I must admit this is lacking on Queenzone, as mentionned by Pittrek. Everybody must be responsible for his uploads, but we can't always know everything. As for example the multitracks that were deleted recently showed, we are not fully aware of evrything. But we also see people sharing stuff that they should have known as official. A guide would probably stop people ignore this, intentionnally or not.
2 / they have moderators for each of their sub-forums (to cut short they divide their sharing forum into periods of Deep Purple, a band whose band members changed a lot during their lifetime, and they also have sub-forums for each member or related band). These moderators delete files when needed, but also reupload frequently the files shared if needed. That way the shows are always available and they can build a real catalogue of bootlegs. There are no torrents on this forum, they just post on rapidshare or mediafire, gigaupload and so on...
3 / The users breaking the rules are banned by the moderators if needed, even if it is not that frequent, they try to avoid this, and we can discuss with the moderators by Personal Mail quite easily.
4 / They draw a list of all that is shared, check regularly for broken links, and there is a section for asking for a reupload.
5 / A real good part of the shows have artwork offered, made by fans or not, so we have a real nice CD to store with complete artwork. That is missing on Queenzone, but of course it can take time to create an artwork. But we have great artists here ! I enjoyed seeing Alex Solan sharing some of his artwork here from time to time.
6 / A wrong thing in my opinion, we can thank someone who uploaded something with a point, and we can see the number of points the sharers obtained.

I thought I could talk about that too after Pittrek question, maybe there are some things that could help us upgrade Queenzone.com.

But the urgency still lies in this official stuff problem. That could be a real problem, and when Queenzone becomes a bit quieter we can see a lot of those shares multiplying. Pittrek is right in my opinion. We have to make something against that and try and help new Queenzoners sort what's right or wrong here, and the easiest way would be an exhaustive list of that official stuff (tracks from original CDs, official remixes, official live stuff and so on...).

Regards,

Olivier,
France.


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bobo the chimp user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 03 Mar 08, 10:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Make me a moderator. That jackass innuendo1990 and his duplicate account would've been gone a fortnight ago.


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 03 Mar 08, 11:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

New Queenzoner's my ass.

This new crop of retards are not newbies - but idiots who want to push the envelope until it bursts.
Nor is there a need for a list of do's and don't's.


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
bigV user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 03 Mar 08, 12:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John S Stuart wrote:

New Queenzoner's my ass.

This new crop of retards are not newbies - but idiots who want to push the envelope until it bursts.
Nor is there a need for a list of do's and don't's.


Due respect, John I disagree with you on both counts:

1. I consider myself to be a part of the "new crop", but I've never shared anything official on QueenZone.
2. I think that there is a definite need for a do's and don't's list - a lot of people seem to think that they can request or post pretty much anything they want. And the rule is very simple: If it was ever released on an official product - don't share it! No exceptions!

At least if there's a proper rulebook as it were, people will know why their thread disappeared.

V.



I'm as mad as HELL, and I'm not going to take this anymore!

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Posted: 03 Mar 08, 12:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yes, what Innuendo 1990 and TM are doing is quite harmless compared to you QZ Veterans out there bitching about the new people.

John, you've nailed it. Plus, I don't see what all the fuss is about. I listened to the tracks, out of curiousity, mainly.

Now, am I going down to the basement of the science building and re-build Killer Queen? No. But then I don't obsess over a band to the point of copywright infringement, such as bootlegging or sharing other artist's material, official or not. It's not mine, so I have no distribution rights in the least. And neither do any of you.

ruth.olivier wrote:

they show a list of all the official stuff and all what can't be shared.


Yes, but their "Archivist" actually knows whats in the archives. Or at least how to get there.

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Posted: 03 Mar 08, 14:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

But maybe we could build a list of all that was issued officially ? It's nothing impossible, is it ?
Maybe if we make the rules the clearest possible we could have less "wrong shares" ? Of course it would not count the intentionnal ones, but it could bring a light for the others. I recently shared a Brian May bootleg and had to share it again to exclude one track that was issued as a Brian May B-Side. It wasn't of my knowledge and I am not one of those who want to share official stuff, breaking the rules if necessary. If that list existed I would not have made that mistake !

Regards,

Olivier,
France.


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John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 03 Mar 08, 14:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

ruth.olivier wrote:

...maybe we could build a list of all that was issued officially ? It's nothing impossible, is it ?


What is this 'spoonfeedtheretarded.com'?

Apart from my 'Ultimate Collection' series I placed together for 'Queenzone', have you guys ever heard of 'Google', 'Wikipedia', 'Amazon', or 'E-bay' - and that's without including the myriad of other Queen sites out there like 'Queenonline' for example?

Sorry - but with today's super information highway at out fingertips - I really can not see ANY excuse for posting something official.

I am also really against this idea of abdication of individual responsibilty - if one does not know if something is official - it is their personal DUTY to find out.
This idea of 'I did not know... so it is not my fault' really is the lamest of all the lame-ass excuses I have ever heard.
Don't you guys take any pride in yourselves?

However, as the world is full of numpties - here are two golden rules if you need them:

1: 'If in doubt - keep it out'
2: 'BEFORE I post - ask the host'

Any more moderation needed?



"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
pittrek user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 03 Mar 08, 15:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John, I fully agree with you. It should work that way in an ideal world. But the reality is that more and more people visiting this site are simply lazy.
But as I wrote originally, this should be explicitelly answered by Richard or Barbara

thunderbolt 31742 user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 03 Mar 08, 15:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John, you're coming off a little harsh here. Sure, if some idiot posts the whole of ANATO, they deserve whatever Zebonka can throw at them. But what do we do with the enterprising (if inexperienced) fan who has stumbled across "See What a Fool I've Been" or the long-lost retake of "Keep Yourself Alive," and shares it here? There is a lot to be said for checking on the track before sharing it, but if you go nuts on somebody, that enterprising fan who may have been the next poopchute may be discouraged from searching in the future.

I agree that a guide is necessary, not a complete reaming of anyone who makes a harmless mistake and immediately rectifies it.


"Do you think I should keep this mustache? Did you say no? F--- off."
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Posted: 03 Mar 08, 15:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

OK, this begs the question of WHERE they got such things.

People who upload stuff here BEFORE checking what they have are either:

1. Too ignorant to do research
2. Too arrogant to ask

In either case, they deserve PERMANENT bans, of their IP addresses. No second chances.

I bet we'd lose noone we'd miss...

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Posted: 03 Mar 08, 16:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sad to say, stupidity is the number one affliction in the world and (actual) recent studies have shown the number of people suffering from this is rising.

If official stuff is shared and discovered by QPL, the whole forum will get the blame, not just that one (stupid) person. I agree with all of you, meaning imho that a simple banner stating: 'Share official stuff, get banned!' might help as a sort of disclaimer for QZ, but the choice to surf the net and find out what is official lies entirely with the person who is sharing. How retarded he/she might be.

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DavidRFuller user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 03 Mar 08, 17:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

A simple IP address ban would do the job, and not with just people who post official stuff, but for morons who try and start trouble. (you know who they are)

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Posted: 03 Mar 08, 17:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think the moderators here are not that strict. In my case I was happy when I discovered that I shared an official track, without knowing it. As I don't have all the singles Brian May made, I wasn't knowing that on the B-side of one of those singles was one track from a Brian May concert, one live track, and I shared a bootleg from that same concert... So I shared the same live track that was on the B-Side of a Brian May single, meaning that I shared an official track !! I decided to cancel and reupload my files, putting out this perticular track.
In my case, I found myself relieved to do so. someone said that there was an official track some days after I shared the files, and as a lot of people might have already downloaded it it was not a problem leaving it this way. I decided to change my files instead of this advice. I would have been more than unhappy to see my Queenzone account deleted and being unable to share again... BUT if a list of the files we can't share existed, then it should be more than OK to have my account deleted. That way, it would have been my responsibility to check before, AND I could not have any excuses as the list of files was that easy to get and read. It is a little making the work for everyone, that's so true, but as Pittrek said, everyone is not perfect, some are lazy, and some do not know everything (for example this Brian May track). And we can't make a forum only for die-hard collectors, I don't think that is the goal of Queenzone. Unfortunately maybe, but maybe I would not be there if it was the case.
So I maintain that this list is a good idea. We can effectively base ourselves on something already existing, such as John's lists or certain specific websites, maybe ultimatequeen.co.uk, provided this website is updated (I think so, it is quite exhaustive) or any other website. But specifying a reference, whether a list on a forum or a website, is something helpful IMHO. For instance, John's lists are not sticky, a newcomer don't know about these lists. The same for the reference to ultimatequeen.co.uk. How to know it for a newcomer.
In my case, I could very well go on Deep Purple forum and share something I thought being unofficial, without knowing that an obscure B-side or limited release contained the same tracks, just because I don't have a full knowledge about Deep Purple. The same goes with Queenzone, I don't know why it could not be the same. We are here for a long time so we know better than others, maybe, but we have to take that fact into account and tolerate new Queenzoners.
Of course those who share stuff that is clearly official, the track of an album for example, could be banned immediately, because they make Queenzone taking a great risk (don't think Brian would like us to openly share official tracks or even tolerate that). That's the task of a moderator to contact one Queenzoner (eventually after deleting his posts or banning him, as I know the moderators don't like to delete posts), and to decide whether the move was volunteer or not, and inform the Queenzoner if he is allowed to continue to go on the forum.
Good debate indeed.

But the moderators here will give their own point of view about that.

Regards,

Olivier,
France.


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Posted: 03 Mar 08, 20:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Jusr ban ALL links to any Queen music and make this site about discussion. We can can to any of a number of places online for Queen stuff.
Do you think QP is happy we share bootlegs? After all, they sell them on their website, the music does belong to Queen, and just because we cannot buy it in a store, we can buy it from Queenonline.
I think it's fairly simple.

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Posted: 04 Mar 08, 00:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'd like to point out that any blanket bans or one-size-fits-all rules would be total bullshit unless they ban *everything*.

From a copyright perspective, everything shared on this site is illegal. That's just how it is. A lot of artists look the other way, of course... John Lennon used to like buying bootlegs of his own shows for Christ's sake... morally, I don't think there's anything wrong with the sharing of a live performance that was never going to be recorded properly.

Legally speaking, though (there is a huge difference between morality and legality, ha-ha) it's all bad stuff. If Brian May felt like being a jerk, he could have this whole place shut down unless we got rid of the Announce forum.

That's just something to keep in mind while people argue over what should be 'allowed'. True enough, we could allow stuff that won't get us in trouble, but one should always remember - it's still not legal.
Unfortunately I only got a very average passing grade in Music copyright so I can't quote you the exact laws here. Haw-haw.


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
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Posted: 04 Mar 08, 03:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote




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Posted: 04 Mar 08, 03:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hi Zebronka,

I think this website is somewhat cautioned by the fan club and the band itself. The band has no interest in having a myriad of websites offering Queen non-official music, but they at least need one to have a fan community somewhere and keep the buzz, keep the Queen alive and satisfy the Queen fans. It was more than ever the case between 1991 and today I think, you know why. That way the band kept the fans busy and their music stil had a public even if there were few official music published. So the band is fully aware of Queenzone and the sharing thing on it, no doubt about it. They just gently close their eyes and let us do and keep the flame up, and the "Queen spirit" still up in our minds.

On the condition that we don't share official stuff. So the problem of the band wanting to close this site down is not raised, provided we don't share official stuff. Legally or not, I'm quite sure the band won't close down this Announce forum if we keep walking in the good lines. Sharing is OK in these lines. They don't have too many problems with us, so we don't have too many problems with them. But the moderators could bring more light about the position of the band towards Queenzone.

That's what is discussed here, what can we do to make sure official stuff is not posted here, intentionnally or not.

Regards,

Olivier,
France.


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Posted: 04 Mar 08, 03:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I totally agree with John. No need to write lists, forget something and then have a 10 page discussion why a share was deleted although it was not on the list. The more we delete the less people think for themselves - we really saw this in the last days. If you are unsure if you can share something, just ask and someone will help you out.

Btw - this thread is in the wrong forum ;)


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Posted: 04 Mar 08, 04:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

YourValentine wrote:

I totally agree with John. No need to write lists, forget something and then have a 10 page discussion why a share was deleted although it was not on the list. The more we delete the less people think for themselves - we really saw this in the last days. If you are unsure if you can share something, just ask and someone will help you out.

Btw - this thread is in the wrong forum ;)


OK so to make the long story short - no official releases shared, if you're in doubt ask the moderator, correct ?

BTW - sorry :-) Where would you prefer to have it ?