Forums > Sharing The Music - Announce > mp3 sharing erases flac??

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Panchgani user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 08 Mar 08, 00:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I hear about the need for "Preserving Quality" so often, that it almost sounds like mp3 sharing has diabolical magic that can erase flac recordings at will.

Obviously, I am a complete idiot, so I will need a lot of reassuring that flac files are not being magicly erased, so that I might get the beauty sleep that I so desperately need.

Actually, in my opinion, no lossless recordings are in danger of extinction ... even if an occasional mp3 conversion is re-converted back to wav format. In fact, most flac shares on QZ are probably in the possesion of thousands of Queen fans who love and will not convert and share mp3 files. Therefore, there is negligible risk that any lossless recordings will become extinct.

True, mp3 will be occasionally reconverted to flac or wav, but I believe that the vast majority of these lossy "flac" shares will be shared outside the serious lossless community, because most of the splintered mp3 sharing and download "community" have slow, and/or download limited connections, plus most mp3 sharers are not reasonably capable of sharing relatively large flac files. Also, most mp3 sharers have no desire to be part of the trading community.

Finally, as I stated many times before, many (hopefully most) serious flac lovers will take a few minutes and use a spectral analyzer to verify that the recording is lossless, and inform many others if that recording turns out to be lossy. Thus, the risk of an mp3 recording being shared as flac or wav is even further reduced.

I will end with two questions ...

What is the estimated percentage of all trades done within the last year that have turned out to be lossy due to a mistake by a new or inexperienced trader?

Hypothetically, if mp3 sharing was no longer allowed on QZ, would you be comfortable enough to stop using a spectral analyzer to verify that a recording is lossless?




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Posted: 08 Mar 08, 01:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Aren't you tired making useless threads?

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Posted: 08 Mar 08, 02:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I can't believe that people are even discussing with these idiots....


True, mp3 will be occasionally reconverted to flac or wav, but I believe that the vast majority of these lossy "flac" shares will be shared outside the serious lossless community, because most of the splintered mp3 sharing and download "community" have slow, and/or download limited connections, plus most mp3 sharers are not reasonably capable of sharing relatively large flac files. Also, most mp3 sharers have no desire to be part of the trading community.

Finally, as I stated many times before, many (hopefully most) serious flac lovers will take a few minutes and use a spectral analyzer to verify that the recording is lossless, and inform many others if that recording turns out to be lossy. Thus, the risk of an mp3 recording being shared as flac or wav is even further reduced.


Ok, have you ever done a trade with someone, burned 20+ discs for that guy containing high quality lossless shows and then receiving the same amount of shows in return, only to find out they're all mp3 sourced and not worth anything. Awesome.

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Posted: 08 Mar 08, 05:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

MP3 sharing DOES "erase FLAC" as you put it.
I have as many Aerosmith, Alice Cooper & Twisted Sister bootlegs (combined) as I have Queen & related, and at least 98% of them are MP3 sourced.
How I'd get the uncompressed WAV (or FLAC) files, God only knows. People are only sharing these as MP3 because they are such small file sizes and quick to upload/download. Thank God for the Queen fans (and this website) who insist on FLAC to keep the quality of the recordings.

Assuming that it's not as simple as a setting on my PC or the way my internet provider governs my access, I think THE major problem here are the internet sites themselves which host the files we download (rapidshare, megaupload etc). If they would allow people to upload at the same high speeds that we download at, then more folks would post uncompressed files. Taking 30 minutes to upload 100mb (when it takes about 5 to download) stops me from posting much on QZ. (I haven't got my head round creating torrents yet).



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Posted: 08 Mar 08, 08:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

In two days you've started 3 topics about this same subject (mp3 x FLAC). It's not even necessary to create new topics about it, as we've already got hundreds, but if it really makes you feel important to tease FLAC users, can't you at least start ONE thread and keep all the crap in there, rather than start one new thread a day talking about the same shit?


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Posted: 08 Mar 08, 10:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

tilomagnet wrote:

I can't believe that people are even discussing with these idiots....


Good point. It's like trying to explain quadratic equations to an apple.

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Posted: 08 Mar 08, 11:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

tilomagnet wrote:

I can't believe that people are even discussing with these idiots....

Ok, have you ever done a trade with someone, burned 20+ discs for that guy containing high quality lossless shows and then receiving the same amount of shows in return, only to find out they're all mp3 sourced and not worth anything. Awesome.


these are live gigs. (in the main) they have NOT been recorded direct from the soundboard or desk, so in essence they will have loads of distortion and crap artefacts in them anyhow, FLAC does little to help. if the source was shit then you just end up with "lossless shit" as opposed to "lossy shit"...

i sense something much more going on here than "just wanting to hear the gigs and enjoy them"...and therein lies the real nub of the issue. this is really about "collecting" "hoarding" and "trading". while i can sympathise with your viewpoint, I AM NOT A TRADER, and consequently i want to listen to these gigs in the most convenient way possible:
unfortunately, my "mp3 player" (note they are not called "flac players") does not do flac. so i am happy to play these tunes as mp3s.
when somebody invents a "flac player" that is truly portable and does not have a harddisk the size of a warehouse i will galdly convert...in the meantime as i said before AS I DO NOT TRADE, I WILL CONTINUE TO USE MP3S


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Posted: 08 Mar 08, 13:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

use mp3, no problem about it !

Regards,

Olivier,
France.


wanna trade ?
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Posted: 08 Mar 08, 23:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Brilliant Tilo -

You traded 20 CD's (not one or two) to an unknown trader??

Which of these mistakes did you make?

You forgot to ask for and download samples of what you were trading for.

You forgot to ask the other trader if he had verified his files were lossless.

You did not ask which spectral analyzer he used to verify the files were lossless.

You did not check with fellow traders to attempt to verify his reputation.

The deal was too good to pass up and you got scammed.


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The Real Wizard user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 09 Mar 08, 00:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

You have completely missed the point, as always.

The point is - if everyone in this community believed in quality preservation, then we wouldn't even need to check to see if recordings received in trades were lossless or not... we would know! We still need to check these days because people like you continue to encourage newbies that mp3 is okay.

What will it take for you to realize that you have contributed nothing of value to this community, ever, and that all you do is take away from it!?



"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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Posted: 09 Mar 08, 05:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:

What will it take for you to realize that you have contributed nothing of value to this community, ever, and that all you do is take away from it!?


I think Mike was the first to share a quality audio copy of houston. Before that -- years before that -- Mike contributed to this forum before it had a music-sharing section. Many people here contribute nothing to the forum and the only time they make an appearance is to ask for more recordings. I don't think it's an over-statement to say that Mike, however, helped make Queenzone what it is. However hard it is for some to accept, the bottom line is that those who believe in Flac-only do not own or run this site and the owner is happy for mp3 to be shared.
You cannot impose your rules on someone else's website.




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Posted: 09 Mar 08, 11:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Holly2003 wrote:

I think Mike was the first to share a quality audio copy of houston.


A hundred people had it before him, though. He was just the end of the line. Houston was a hot potato for decades, and collectors had restrictions not to share it. By the time it got to him, the restrictions had eased so he was able to share it. Let's see if he claims that he simply chose to share it all on his own, regardless of how many hands (and whose hands) it had passed through before it reached his. Still, credit where credit's due. I'll give a bit. Fair enough.

Before that -- years before that -- Mike contributed to this forum before it had a music-sharing section.


Then I'll revise my statement to: "He has contributed nothing to this forum since people came to understand the potential of technology, since he has chosen to pander to his antiquated views on quality preservation."

Many people here contribute nothing to the forum and the only time they make an appearance is to ask for more recordings.


This is true... but let's not change the subject.

You cannot impose your rules on someone else's website.


But you see, they're not my rules. Technology and its potential are making the rules. Some of us here are merely the messengers, inviting people to enjoy unofficial music in the highest quality possible. I'm trying very hard, and continuing to fail, to understand why some people can be happy with inferior versions of recordings, at the detriment of those who want only the best versions to be put out there.



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Posted: 09 Mar 08, 11:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:

Holly2003 wrote:

I think Mike was the first to share a quality audio copy of houston.


A hundred people had it before him, though. He was just the end of the line. Houston was a hot potato for decades, and collectors had restrictions not to share it. By the time it got to him, the restrictions had eased so he was able to share it. Let's see if he claims that he simply chose to share it all on his own, regardless of how many hands (and whose hands) it had passed through before it reached his.

Before that -- years before that -- Mike contributed to this forum before it had a music-sharing section.


Fair enough. Then I'll revise my statement to: "He has contributed nothing to this forum since people came to understand the potential of technology, since he has chosen to pander to his antiquated views on quality preservation."

Many people here contribute nothing to the forum and the only time they make an appearance is to ask for more recordings.


This is true... but let's not change the subject.

You cannot impose your rules on someone else's website.


But you see, they're not my rules. Technology and its potential are making the rules. Some of us here are merely its messengers, inviting people to enjoy unofficial music in the highest quality possible. I'm trying very hard, and continuing to fail, to understand why some people can be happy with inferior versions of recordings.


Whether Mike was the first to "have it" or not, I believe he was the first to share it here. That demonstrates that your remark "he has contributed nothing" is wrong. As I said also, there is more to this forum than sharing music, and Mike was here a long time before most of those hurling insults even knew Queenzone existed.

As for the rules, like myself, and Mike, and everyone else, Flac sharers are guests here and guests should obey site rules. The owner of the site -- the one who designed it, and the person who pays the bills -- allows mp3 sharing and Mike should not be insulted or told to leave by other forum members because he shares mp3s.


"With a population of 1.75 million, Northern Ireland should really be a footballing minnow. Instead, they could be better described as the piranhas of the international game" (FIFA.com)
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Posted: 09 Mar 08, 11:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Holly2003 wrote:

Whether Mike was the first to "have it" or not, I believe he was the first to share it here. That demonstrates that your remark "he has contributed nothing" is wrong.


I edited my post while you were writing yours. I'll give some credit, but not much. Even if he was the first person to track down Houston to share to the public, it doesn't eliminate what he has done since. Still, if I may say so, you clearly don't understand the history of the Houston recording. It's not simply a matter of "who shared it first." It's far more complicated than that.

As I said also, there is more to this forum than sharing music, and Mike was here a long time before most of those hurling insults even knew Queenzone existed.


Longevity has nothing to do with someone's current actions, and shouldn't be used as an excuse to overlook them. If someone joined the forum today with the same views, people would be making the same efforts to explain to them how not to destroy recordings.

As for the rules, like myself, and Mike, and everyone else, Flac sharers are guests here and guests should obey site rules. The owner of the site -- the one who designed it, and the person who pays the bills -- allows mp3 sharing and Mike should not be insulted or told to leave by other forum members because he shares mp3s.


Just because a rule has been imposed doesn't mean it's inherently right on all levels. Most websites once had the same rules (or lack of rules) that this website has. But they got with the times, while this one didn't.

The bottom line, as I've stated many times before, is this: If it weren't for tapers, transferrers, and collectors, these recordings wouldn't be available to people in the first place, and thus this announce forum wouldn't have existed in the first place, either. It has nothing to do with "rules". Rules can become outdated over time. Common sense should suggest that those who make the recordings available have the right to say what can be done with them. If one of those requests is to maintain the recording's quality, people should respect their wishes as a thank you for the recording, which otherwise would not have been heard. If these requests aren't met, then in many cases, no more recordings will emerge from that source. It's that simple.

You will not meet many tapers who will encourage people to share their recordings in mp3. That said, it is a fact that some shows won't ever be heard because of this forum. Sure, there are various reasons why recordings will remain underground, but the champions for lossy sharing here are to blame for some of them.

So what's more important? New recordings, or mp3 versions of existing ones?



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Posted: 09 Mar 08, 12:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:

Holly2003 wrote:

Whether Mike was the first to "have it" or not, I believe he was the first to share it here. That demonstrates that your remark "he has contributed nothing" is wrong.


I edited my post while you were writing yours. I'll give some credit, but not much. Even if he was the first person to track down Houston to share to the public, it doesn't eliminate what he has done since. Still, if I may say so, you clearly don't understand the history of the Houston recording. It's not simply a matter of "who shared it first." It's far more complicated than that.

As I said also, there is more to this forum than sharing music, and Mike was here a long time before most of those hurling insults even knew Queenzone existed.


Longevity has nothing to do with someone's current actions, and shouldn't be used as an excuse to overlook them. If someone joined the forum today with the same views, people would be making the same efforts to explain to them how not to destroy recordings.

As for the rules, like myself, and Mike, and everyone else, Flac sharers are guests here and guests should obey site rules. The owner of the site -- the one who designed it, and the person who pays the bills -- allows mp3 sharing and Mike should not be insulted or told to leave by other forum members because he shares mp3s.


Just because a rule has been imposed doesn't mean it's inherently right on all levels. Most websites once had the same rules (or lack of rules) that this website has. But they got with the times, while this one didn't.

The bottom line, as I've stated many times before, is this: If it weren't for tapers, transferrers, and collectors, these recordings wouldn't be available to people in the first place, and thus this announce forum wouldn't have existed in the first place, either. It has nothing to do with "rules". Rules can become outdated over time. Common sense should suggest that those who make the recordings available have the right to say what can be done with them. If one of those requests is to maintain the recording's quality, people should respect their wishes as a thank you for the recording, which otherwise would not have been heard. If these requests aren't met, then in many cases, no more recordings will emerge from that source. It's that simple.

You will not meet many tapers who will encourage people to share their recordings in mp3. That said, it is a fact that some shows won't ever be heard because of this forum. Sure, there are various reasons why recordings will remain underground, but the champions for lossy sharing here are to blame for some of them.

So what's more important? New recordings, or mp3 versions of existing ones?


In your opinion what Mike is doing is wrong: in the opinion of the guy who runs the forum (and who pays for it) what Mike is doing is fine. That is the bottom line.




"With a population of 1.75 million, Northern Ireland should really be a footballing minnow. Instead, they could be better described as the piranhas of the international game" (FIFA.com)
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Posted: 09 Mar 08, 12:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Holly2003 wrote:

In your opinion what Mike is doing is wrong: in the opinion of the guy who runs the forum (and who pays for it) what Mike is doing is fine. That is the bottom line.


In *my* opinion? Not the opinions of everyone in every other thriving collecting community? You, along with Mike and most of the people at this forum, just don't have a clue. I don't need to state my business any further, as I don't feel like talking to brick walls anymore, thanks. Enjoy your mp3s.



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Posted: 09 Mar 08, 13:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:

Holly2003 wrote:

In your opinion what Mike is doing is wrong: in the opinion of the guy who runs the forum (and who pays for it) what Mike is doing is fine. That is the bottom line.


In *my* opinion? Not the opinions of everyone in every other thriving collecting community? You, along with Mike and most of the people at this forum, just don't have a clue. I don't need to state my business any further, as I don't feel like talking to brick walls anymore, thanks. Enjoy your mp3s.


Hilarious. Talking of brick walls, let me make it clear for you and others who have attacked Mike: you don't own this site, you don't run this site, and you don't make the rules for this site. Regardless of what is going on elsewhere, mp3s are not banned by this website's owner --- you know the guy who designed this place, and the one who pays for it? Yeah, him.


"With a population of 1.75 million, Northern Ireland should really be a footballing minnow. Instead, they could be better described as the piranhas of the international game" (FIFA.com)
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Posted: 09 Mar 08, 13:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Right... every person with money and can make rules is inherently flawless and knows exactly what's best for everyone!



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Posted: 09 Mar 08, 13:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The forum is what it is right now, right, but why preventing it to be improved ? That's something I don't understand. We are able to make it better, so why not ?

Regards,

Olivier,
France.


wanna trade ?
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Posted: 09 Mar 08, 14:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:

Right... every person with money and can make rules is inherently flawless and knows exactly what's best for everyone!


Setting up a straw man now: whether the owner is right or wrong you are a guest on his site. Mp3 sharing is permitted here and Mike should not be abused for doing something that is permitted by the owner of this forum. If you cannot accept the owners rules, you, or anyone else who has a problem, are perfectly free to set up your own rival website. You can pay the cash, do the admin, and set the rules. Maybe, in time, it will out outdo Queenzone. Until that time, you and the other flaccers should respect the rules and stop abusing Mike.*

*Perhaps Mike might even meet you half way and stop posting mp3 concerts if they have already been shared here in flac (and are still available: many links have died). On the other hand, he might ignore that and he would still within his rights as he is not breaking any site rules.


"With a population of 1.75 million, Northern Ireland should really be a footballing minnow. Instead, they could be better described as the piranhas of the international game" (FIFA.com)