Forums > Personal > Teachers allowed to carry guns at school...

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Lisser user not visiting Queenzone.com
Lisser
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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 09:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

This article is really unbelievable. I don't even know what to say.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26393946/

I work in an elementary school and I can't even begin to tell you how frightened I would be if some of the teachers I work with had access to a gun. Sure they are wonderful at getting through to children on the educational skills they need but half of them would walk right in to a busy intersection and not notice the 18 wheeler coming at them.

I have a concealed permit but I use it to shoot cardboard targets for fun. I would use it to protect my family if needed but I would rather not shoot another living thing. Cardboard is fine with me.

I guess all I can say is only in Texas????!!!! Sorry Texans. :)


Wo ist das kamerahhhhhhhhhhh!!!



NJ!!!























Mr.Jingles user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 09:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm sure those NRA gun nuts are the ones who were pushing for this.

They were even protesting that guns were not allowed at Disney World.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
magicalfreddiemercury user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 09:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The entire article pisses me off but this did it the most -
"The superintendent said some of the school's 50 employees are carrying weapons, but he wouldn't say how many. When pressed further, he first said that revealing that number might jeopardize school security. He then added that he considered it to be personnel information and not a matter of public record."

Personnel information and not a matter of public record? If my child were in that school, there's no way I'd let her remain there. As a parent, I feel I have the right to know if the people responsible for my child's safety are carrying a gun. It's one of the standard questions I've learned to ask the parents of her friends when she goes on playdates, now it has to be one asked of schools? What next? The YMCA?

It's amazing. They answer the issue of school shootings by arming more people. If I'm not mistaken, the guns used in recent school shootings were obtained legally. That says something to me - like maybe the laws need to be changed. Maybe there should be extended training periods, psyche evaluations, further restrictions on the number of guns that can be purchased in a given time, and lengthy waiting periods between applying and receiving the weapon. Instead, they approve of more people carrying. Sounds like the plan came from another Texan we all know too well. It's stupid, arrogant and dangerous, though somehow, I'm not surprised.



"The others don't like my interviews. And frankly, I don't care much for theirs." ~ Freddie Mercury



Poo, again user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 10:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

America...


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Jake? wrote: I want him to shove it down my throat and shoot. Shoot! Shoot! C'mon! SHOOT! SHOOT!

[/QUOTENAME]



[/QUOTE]







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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 11:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Poo again wrote:

America...


LMAO. :)


I'm sick of all my kicks.
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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 11:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr.Jingles wrote:

I'm sure those NRA gun nuts are the ones who were pushing for this.

They were even protesting that guns were not allowed at Disney World.


MICKEY MOUSE
HE'S COMIN' RIGHT FOR US

HOLY FUCKING SHIT SOMEONE GET THAT GIANT TALKING DOG

BAM BAM BAM BAM

- NRA.


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
Music Man user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 11:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

We let cops carry guns...

...if you take all the teachers in the country and compare them to all the cops in the country, I know I'd give the guns to the teachers...


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
Micrówave user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 11:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Please post the link to the story about the Texas school shootings since this went into effect.

Please.

Oh, that's right, you can't.

Lisser, you're a teacher right? Now I'm not sure where, but if it's a big city you've got an ARMED POLICE OFFICER in the school already. As well as a plain clothes undercover for backup. This was done to protect our kids. Have you told your boss that it makes you uncomfortable? I doubt it.

Are you all saying that only the kids should be the ones bringing the guns to school? That makes it safer? Ah, the fewer handguns excuse.

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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 11:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Poo again wrote:

America...


Land Of The Free
Home Of The Brave
and still Cheaper Gas than you.


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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 12:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Microwave wrote:

Please post the link to the story about the Texas school shootings since this went into effect.

Please.

Oh, that's right, you can't.

Lisser, you're a teacher right? Now I'm not sure where, but if it's a big city you've got an ARMED POLICE OFFICER in the school already. As well as a plain clothes undercover for backup. This was done to protect our kids. Have you told your boss that it makes you uncomfortable? I doubt it.

Are you all saying that only the kids should be the ones bringing the guns to school? That makes it safer? Ah, the fewer handguns excuse.


You don't see a difference between a cop with a gun vs. a gym teacher with one?

And yes indeed, the fewer handguns excuse... but I forget... there are those who feel everyone should be armed because then we'll all be so much safer. That logic is quite stale yet still disturbing.

Anyway, nothing will be changed here unless the parents voice their opposition to this new rule... if indeed they do oppose it.



"The others don't like my interviews. And frankly, I don't care much for theirs." ~ Freddie Mercury



Erin user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 12:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

magicalfreddiemercury wrote:

You don't see a difference between a cop with a gun vs. a gym teacher with one?


Exactly. There is always a chance that a teacher would be careless, and a gun could get into the hands of a student. Not a teacher, but there was an incident here recently where a 50 something year old grandma was in Sam's Club with her 4 year old grandchild. She had a legal concealed handgun in her purse, and the 4 year old got hold of it and shot herself. Accidents happen. School resource officers would be less likely to be careless with a gun than a teacher, I'm sure.

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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 12:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Gun nuts in this country think that everyone against them is an ignorant for "ignoring the Second Amendment". The truth is that nobody is ignoring the Second Amendment. Turns out to be that they are the ignorant ones for ignoring the "WELL REGULATED MILITIA" portion of the Second Amendment.

Think of this. When an armed criminal takes hostages inside a building, cops are not even allowed to go inside and are only told to point their guns from the outside and make calls for the criminal to surrender. Only an expert member of a SWAT team would be allowed to use guns inside a house of building in a rescue operation.
If a regular citizen has gone through the extensive gun training and emergency response of a SWAT official, I'm more than willing to give them the right to use a weapon. However, the NRA's idea of of gun training is knowing how to load a weapon and shoot at anything.

If they want to defend themselves against a potential criminal, allow them to use taser guns, which are far less lethal and far less likely to harm an innocent bystander. For the NRA this is not so much fun by their standards, considering that they are insane individuals with a morbid fascination with seeing blood run.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 12:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr.Jingles wrote:

allow them to use taser guns, which are far less lethal and far less likely to harm an innocent bystander.


Now I like this idea. It could help with enforcing the dress code, talking in class, cheating, bullying, sports disadvantages, and overeating at lunch.

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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 12:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Erin wrote:


Exactly. There is always a chance that a teacher would be careless


Yes, all cops are careful. WHAT?!?!?!

Cmon, Erin, you don't seriously believe that, do you? And you don't think that these teachers THAT DO CHOOSE TO CARRY have gone thru extensive training?

I'm sure the teacher that is packing heat had a very difficult time making that choice and we are all very insensitive to that... jokes aside. These are people who have chosen to educate our future generations. I think everyone of them THAT CHOSE TO CARRY was shocked at the thought of having to arm themselves. I don't think of them as careless, niave, irrational and incompetant as some of you suggest they are.

And Lisser, judging from what I've read from you over the last few years, I don't think of you that way either. You would simply be one of the teachers that declinded to carry, that's all. Unfortunately, though, if your classroom was ever stomed by an unstable student, you would be as powerless as the kids in your class and would most likely end up a victim: Being the teacher, probably the first victim.

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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 13:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Microwave wrote:

And you don't think that these teachers THAT DO CHOOSE TO CARRY have gone thru extensive training?


Not as much training as a school resource officer, whose sole responsibility is to ensure the safety of the students... Teachers may have good intentions to protect themselves and their students, but their job is to educate not to be the school police.

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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 13:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr.Jingles wrote:

Gun nuts in this country think that everyone against them is an ignorant for "ignoring the Second Amendment". The truth is that nobody is ignoring the Second Amendment. Turns out to be that they are the ignorant ones for ignoring the "WELL REGULATED MILITIA" portion of the Second Amendment.


Actually, there has been much debate as to whether the Second Amendment pertains to individual or collective rights (of a militia). However, most experts agreed that the "well-regulated militia" clause did not limit the scope of the amendment, and their opinion was later confirmed in a Supreme Court ruling.

I am not saying that anyone is ignorant, as I believe both parties hold relevant and well thought out opinions. However, this point is simply wrong.


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 14:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I am not a teacher, I am a social worker. We do not have a school resource officer in my school at all times but one is a phone call away at the middle school right next door.

I am trained to restrain a child without hurting the child or myself. We do not have metal detectors at my school or at any school in my county but one county over there are metal detectors in the middle schools and high schools with armed resource officers. I live in a pretty peaceful county however the same county I work in is home to Clay Shrout's killing spree in 1994. He killed his parents and his two little sisters one morning and then went to school like normal after he did it and took his class hostage.

This situation can happen anywhere true but I don't think arming teachers is the answer at all. I can only speak for the teachers in my school carrying guns, not other teachers and I'm telling you, any of these teachers with a gun would be a dangerous situation in itself. Not a good idea at all for anyone to have guns around children unless they are trained and I mean trained as their lifelong career. I will never bring my gun to school. This is not the place for guns. If a child chooses to bring a gun to school to hurt someone then there will be no shoot out here between teachers and the child. The police would be called to deal with it, as is their duty. We have procedures in place for hostage situations and the like and all staff are well versed in what to do in a hostage situation just as a tornado or fire drill, we practice these twice a month.

We have had a couple instances where children have brought knives to school, one has even brought a bullet to school. They usually just want to show their friends and mean no harm but we just got a student in from another city who stabbed his sister with a knife, he is 9 years old and his sister is 15.

Call me crazy, call me nieve, I just don't think that educators should be carrying guns for protection. If their school is that dangerous and they do not feel safe then the school board should be providing metal detectors and trained police personnel to protect them so they can do what they are hired to do, teach. Sure not every police officer is 100% accurate or 100% responsible. Nothing is 100% certain except that we are all going to die some day, just hopefully not at the hands of another human being.


Wo ist das kamerahhhhhhhhhhh!!!



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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 14:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

*starts to comment*

Nah...I'm walking away from this one.

*leaves thread*


Formerly MHG
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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 15:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Lisser wrote:

If their school is that dangerous and they do not feel safe then the school board should be providing metal detectors and trained police personnel to protect them so they can do what they are hired to do, teach. Sure not every police officer is 100% accurate or 100% responsible. Nothing is 100% certain except that we are all going to die some day, just hopefully not at the hands of another human being.


Whoa, hold on a second. You're talking about hundreds of public schools. Hundreds. That's gonna be one heck of a price tag. And we're not "arming our teachers". It's their choice. I doubt that there is 100% participation nor do I believe that these teachers are wearing them as side arms looking for a gunfight.

There WAS a shootout at Virginia Tech. There WAS a shootout at Columbine. Teachers were not armed there, so how can we assume that arming teachers would result in shootouts between teachers and students?

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Posted: 27 Aug 08, 19:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

OK, I feel I have to respectfully point out a few things to you Microwave:

1) You argue "How do we know that arming teachers will lead to a shoot out between teachers and students". Faulty logic. You can just as well argue "How do we know that arming teachers WON'T lead to a shoot out between teachers and students".
Personally, I'd tend to error on the side of caution. If you have a gun, and someone starts shooting at you, what is your natural reaction after you duck for cover? Shoot back. Bingo. And then the shooter, getting shot at now, begins to shoot at the person who is shooting at them. Ergo, shoot out between teachers and students. You can't gaurantee everyone's aim would be perfect enough to hit the shooter on the first shot.

2) Just because some of the teachers chose not to arm themselves is not the issue here. It is similar to smoking. I chose not to smoke because I don't want to fill my lungs with such crap and slowly poison myself. But the person sitting next to me in the restaurant can smoke. In this case, it doesn't matter that I don't smoke, my lungs are still being filled with smoke from the guy next to me. A teacher in this school who doesn't arm themselves still has to be in an environment where co-workers are armed. I wouldn't feel safe in that environment. Most fatalities at work occur because of co-workers who snap, not students shooting up the schools. I'd rather not take the issue of the fellow teacher who is going through a divorce and money issues and what not snap and, because he has the gun for other reasons, decide to use it.

3) "Extensive" training? As Dan pointed out, even the POLICE who get MORE training than these people would get don't go into hostage situations; that's left to the SWAT team. And I guarantee you that these teachers aren't going to get SWAT team level training.

4) Virginia Tech isn't a valid comparison for this argument, because that was a University campus. It's open to the public, with multiple buildings and open areas on a campus. Not a typical K-12 school where everything is in one building and people going in and out are monitored. It's an apples to oranges comparison.

5) Columbine is the only apples to apples argument here, so that's the only one we can use. That was also ten years ago. Since then, there has been a MAJOR uptick in the security at schools; armed and unarmed police officers, metal detectors, all doors locked and guests can only get in one entrance where they have to sign in, etc etc. And since that time, I don't remember another major school shooting incident on that level (like I said before, Virginia Tech doesn't count because it's a university and therefore different). That being the case, why is it suddenly not enough to do what we have done to this point? Why do you suddenly need to allow the teachers to be armed?


Formerly MHG