Forums > Queen - General Discussion > The good, the bad and Paul Rodgers

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Mr. Jordy user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 01:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I am sitting here typing this, listening to Q+PR play the Ukraine and thinking of all that Queen has been, all that Queen was, and what Queen is today. I must say, I enjoy Paul singing Radio Ga Ga. He puts his soul into the song and that makes his performance special. But not as special as Freddie Mercury singing the pure shit out of that song at Wembley. Every single time I play Radio Ga Ga from Live At Wembley, I get goosebumps. No one will ever sing that song with such force, conviction and majestic power as Freddie.

As I listen to The Cosmos Rocks, it makes me miss the force that was and is Freddie Mercury. I agree with those of you who have reported The Cosmos Rocks as more Paul Rodgers than Queen. I am even starting to lean towards the idealogy of Treasure Moment, who has stated time after time that Freddie Mercury was Queen. HOWEVER, I'd like to clarify my feelings... It is obvious that Paul's musical/lyrical style has very, very much influenced what is left of Queen and their new album. As Paul is the current lead singer of this band, such an occurence is only natural. When Freddie was alive, his role as lead singer heavily influenced Queen to sound very Freddie Mercury-ish, which is a signature sound completely but naturally lost on The Comos Rocks. Because of this, I have began to realize that it is Freddie Mercury, his beautiful musical arrangements and his outstanding vocals that I really enjoyed about Queen. To say that "Freddie Mercury was Queen" is not all togther true - but perhaps it was the queen in Queen that gave them the sound that we all are so used to. Perhaps it is because we wonder what could have been if Freddie had lived past 1991 that we are unable to immediately accept Queen projects without him.


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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 03:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well here the same. Although I hate the stupendious talk of TM there is a point that Freddie was obviously the big drive in Queen to made a difference between a good rock band and Queen. The last album with a living Freddie (Innuendo) is off course one of the best Albums Queen ever made. I read the interiew with GB on that Brazilian site and I have to agree with hm that they should named it Taylor, May and Rodgers or something like that. This album is not bad, no way, but the use of the name Queen did give me other expectations, higher hopes. As I stated before It's great that May and Taylor moved on ang tried new things with Paul, but it's not the Queen sound from ANATO, ADATR,Innuendo.

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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 04:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Get ready for all the steford brian and roger fans. If you don't like the new album these fans will say that you belong to the freddie mercury cult, and your a fan of freddie and not queen. Why can't people admit that freddie was a huge part of the Queen sound, and was the most unique writer of the four. I love all four members of queen, but it doesn't take a genious to know why they were different than any other rock band. If it wasn't for freddie, Queen would have been called 'rich kids' that's how original brian and roger were in 1970, and now we get the 'cosmo rocks' wow, what originality!

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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 04:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

mike hunt wrote:

Get ready for all the steford brian and roger fans. If you don't like the new album these fans will say that you belong to the freddie mercury cult, and your a fan of freddie and not queen. Why can't people admit that freddie was a huge part of the Queen sound, and was the most unique writer of the four. I love all four members of queen, but it doesn't take a genious to know why they were different than any other rock band. If it wasn't for freddie, Queen would have been called 'rich kids' that's how original brian and roger were in 1970, and now we get the 'cosmo rocks' wow, what originality!


I'm not going to deny Fred's undoubted talent, but let's face it: without Brian May and Roger taylor in particular, a Fred solo career - esp. from the late 1970s onwards - might've consisted of throwaway pop songs. Personally I think It's Late is Queen's best song - a Brian song of course. It's a shame he doesnt seem to have that kind of songwriting in him any more.


"With a population of 1.75 million, Northern Ireland should really be a footballing minnow. Instead, they could be better described as the piranhas of the international game" (FIFA.com)
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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 04:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

... well, before the stepfords join in, I'd like to contribute my own point of view, FWLIW ...

I think that Mr. Jordy perfectly put into words Freddie's uniqueness and defining influence on all facets of Queen, his "lateral" creativity, his ability to give it his best and bring out the best from the others.

And I agree that of course it is his driving force the element that is clearly, obviously missing from TCR, the difference between a good blues-rock album and a great Queen album.

And it saddens me deeply, that he's no longer with us, that he'll be no longer gracing us with his unique talents.

Yet, I like TCR.

Not as "second best" of something that can not possibly exist any more; not as a pale glimpse of what might have been, had he been still alive.

Those thoughts do not enter my mind while I listen to it.

I listen to it, and I like it, for what it IS.

Not despite what it can not be.

And I do not even have an issue with the name: as long as it's not "Queen" full stop, it's perfectly fine and fitting for me.

Which makes me feel rather awkward, in the middle of all this heated dispute.

I keep wondering whether I am the strange one, or the normal one.

IMVHO & FWLIW & NOM as usual.


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Gnomo

(... any way the wind blows ...)
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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 05:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

gnomo wrote:

... well, before the stepfords join in, I'd like to contribute my own point of view, FWLIW ...

I think that Mr. Jordy perfectly put into words Freddie's uniqueness and defining influence on all facets of Queen, his "lateral" creativity, his ability to give it his best and bring out the best from the others.

And I agree that of course it is his driving force the element that is clearly, obviously missing from TCR, the difference between a good blues-rock album and a great Queen album.

And it saddens me deeply, that he's no longer with us, that he'll be no longer gracing us with his unique talents.

Yet, I like TCR.

Not as "second best" of something that can not possibly exist any more; not as a pale glimpse of what might have been, had he been still alive.

Those thoughts do not enter my mind while I listen to it.

I listen to it, and I like it, for what it IS.

Not despite what it can not be.

And I do not even have an issue with the name: as long as it's not "Queen" full stop, it's perfectly fine and fitting for me.

Which makes me feel rather awkward, in the middle of all this heated dispute.

I keep wondering whether I am the strange one, or the normal one.

IMVHO & FWLIW & NOM as usual.



Very well said.

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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 06:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

gnomo wrote:

... well, before the stepfords join in, I'd like to contribute my own point of view, FWLIW ...

I think that Mr. Jordy perfectly put into words Freddie's uniqueness and defining influence on all facets of Queen, his "lateral" creativity, his ability to give it his best and bring out the best from the others.

And I agree that of course it is his driving force the element that is clearly, obviously missing from TCR, the difference between a good blues-rock album and a great Queen album.

And it saddens me deeply, that he's no longer with us, that he'll be no longer gracing us with his unique talents.

Yet, I like TCR.

Not as "second best" of something that can not possibly exist any more; not as a pale glimpse of what might have been, had he been still alive.

Those thoughts do not enter my mind while I listen to it.

I listen to it, and I like it, for what it IS.

Not despite what it can not be.

And I do not even have an issue with the name: as long as it's not "Queen" full stop, it's perfectly fine and fitting for me.

Which makes me feel rather awkward, in the middle of all this heated dispute.

I keep wondering whether I am the strange one, or the normal one.

IMVHO & FWLIW & NOM as usual.
Gnomo, the best statement EVER on QZ, bravo! You are indeed the normal one.


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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 10:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yep, Im with you Gnomo.

I see it as a new band featuring members of an awesome band I love. And I like it. Its not the greatest album ever made, but its good, clean rock n roll fun.


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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 10:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Markman38 wrote:

but it's not the Queen sound from ANATO, ADATR,Innuendo.


It's funny that you would hold Innuendo in such high esteem as the other two you mentioned. Maybe you just mean the song, then I could take you seriously. But if you're classifying Innuendo the album in the same league as ANATO and ADATR, then YOU are the stepford.

Innuendo, in fact, is a shoddy attempt at best. They had a couple of good songs along with the pity card going. Throw in a Hoop diddy, a couple of meows, and a lot of 'head voice'. Then process all of it. I keep hearing the comment about the sloppy guitar playing of Brian. Listen to Innuendo again. It's everywhere.

Fact is, bands evolve. Sometimes their fans do not. And that's fine, but to criticize simply because it's not what YOU expect of a band is very close minded. To criticize other people for liking it is utterly insane.

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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 10:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr. Jordy wrote:

I am sitting here typing this, listening to Q+PR play the Ukraine and thinking of all that Queen has been, all that Queen was, and what Queen is today. I must say, I enjoy Paul singing Radio Ga Ga. He puts his soul into the song and that makes his performance special. But not as special as Freddie Mercury singing the pure shit out of that song at Wembley. Every single time I play Radio Ga Ga from Live At Wembley, I get goosebumps. No one will ever sing that song with such force, conviction and majestic power as Freddie.

As I listen to The Cosmos Rocks, it makes me miss the force that was and is Freddie Mercury. I agree with those of you who have reported The Cosmos Rocks as more Paul Rodgers than Queen. I am even starting to lean towards the idealogy of Treasure Moment, who has stated time after time that Freddie Mercury was Queen. HOWEVER, I'd like to clarify my feelings... It is obvious that Paul's musical/lyrical style has very, very much influenced what is left of Queen and their new album. As Paul is the current lead singer of this band, such an occurence is only natural. When Freddie was alive, his role as lead singer heavily influenced Queen to sound very Freddie Mercury-ish, which is a signature sound completely but naturally lost on The Comos Rocks. Because of this, I have began to realize that it is Freddie Mercury, his beautiful musical arrangements and his outstanding vocals that I really enjoyed about Queen. To say that "Freddie Mercury was Queen" is not all togther true - but perhaps is was the queen in Queen that gave them the sound that we all are so used to. Perhaps it is because we wonder what could have been if Freddie had lived past 1991 that we are unable to immediately accept Queen projects without him.


There's a world of difference between a reasonable person expressing an opinion in a reasonable way, and a hysterical, screaming bed-wetter like Treasure Moments and his ilk. That kind of reflexive, ill-considered meandering illicits a equally vitriolic and thoughtless response from people like me because, at least in my case, its fun to wind up and take the piss out of people like that. Its a guilty pleasure. And I take great delight in coining the expression "The Cult of Fred" because I genuinely think there are a lot of people posting here, there, and elsewhere for whom its a very apt and descriptive phrase. Having said that, there is also a world of difference between fanatics and fundamentalists who have nothing more to bring to the conversation that "Freddie WAS Queen!!!!" and people who have the self-awareness and consideration to express their own feelings in saying "Freddie was Queen *to me*" or "Freddie was my favorite part of Queen and I can't get into or behind this new album". That's a reasonable remark by a reasonable person, as is the acknowledgment of the sad truth that Freddie Mercury is dead. He's been dead for almost 17 years. Everybody would be happier if he were alive and had been making music for the last 17 years. But he's dead, life has necessarily moved on, and everybody's making the best of it. Obviously "the best of it" isn't going to please everyone, but that's the nature of art. To acknowledge that something isn't your cup of tea is only reasonable; to damn people for not being something they obviously cannot be is unreasonable; to go completely off the rails and accuse people of betrayal and treachery and pissing on legacies and on and on and on, because you didn't like a record, is lunacy. Let's be adults, have an adult discussion, and agree to disagree. And for those who can't be adults, let's have fun with 'em.


Blow it out your ass.
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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 11:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm gladly surprised to see almost a full page of discussion on this subject with tolerance and people expressing their views in an orderly manner. Hope it lasts.

I like The Cosmos Rocks.

I like most of what Queen or Brian+Roger do and I get excited with almost whatever new stuff they are making at the time because it's new but I don't think I idealize their output that much.

For instance, my attitude towards things like the Pepsi ad were "Ok, the band is appealing to a different market. That is good because, bla bla" but I NEVER THOUGHT THAT THE MUSIC WAS ANY GOOD or that is was a quality work.

I liked Queen + Paul Rodgers from the moment I saw them perform together for the first time. It WAS different. There was something in the air. I could see there was chemistry between them.

On the other hand, I didn't like the Champions of the World live album. It was not a good performance and it just didn't sound Ok to my ears. It still sounded like something "for the fans" and not something I could feel "proud" and say to my friends "Look, this is Queen's new __something___" (I don't do that a lot, btw).

To the 2006 gig I went with my cousin and two friends. It was a thousand times better than the shows I saw in Europe and A MILLION times better than ROTC.

Now I listen to the new album and I see it has various music styles, it has great production, it doesn't sound like anything Queen or Paul Rodgers did before and it sounds fresh to me. I didn't think they could pull that off but they proved me wrong.

It is not a great-memorable album, it is not perfect, but it is very good. It has enough Queen trademarks here and there for me to like, even if the songwriting is not what it used to be.

I like it better than every Queen solo project and AKOM, Flash Gordon or The Miracle (maybe?).

Come on, face it. With a title like "The Cosmos Rocks" and the first provisional artwork - tour posters with amateur design, etc. - many fans (me included) were expecting them to deliver a stinker.

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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 11:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Amen !

IMO and i've been a Queen fan for over 30 years there is so much to say that is better left unsaid.. nothing can be the same again so this is better than nothing, for sure TCR is not Queen but it's got some damn fine songs on it....... maybe if they decide this is a long term project they can go away and spend the time writing better songs - i agree It's Late is one of Brians best written and played songs but he is 30 years older and the world is a different place.

As a band a new entity albeit without a new name they rock and TCR is GOOD no not brilliant but live they are something else how many other old bands bring out new material that gets compared to the old better times.. allways

Life goes on and THE COSMOS WILL ROCK


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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 13:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

gnomo for president!

let's stop all the fighting once and for good!!!


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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 14:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Holly2003 wrote:

Personally I think It's Late is Queen's best song - a Brian song of course. It's a shame he doesnt seem to have that kind of songwriting in him any more.


You don't get it.

Imagine Paul Rogers singing "Its late".

Would it still be as good as Freddie's "Its Late".

Brian, Roger, and John wrote good songs. But Freddie made them GREAT.

Freddie himself was the BEST song writer of the band. That's why he was able to make song's like "Barcelona" and "The Fallen Priest" on his own. Those are Queen signature songs.

Freddie is probably 80% to 90% of Queen's success.

Brian, Roger, and John without Freddie would never amount to Queen's level of Success. They'd maybe be moderately successful as Smile.

Just watch. Queen + PR will BOMB sales wise, and they will never again be heard of. They have just one top 40 single. That's it.

That's how Brian and Roger and John would've gone without Freddie.

Freddie was 90% of Queen.



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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 15:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

SomebodyWhoLoves wrote:

Holly2003 wrote:

Personally I think It's Late is Queen's best song - a Brian song of course. It's a shame he doesnt seem to have that kind of songwriting in him any more.


You don't get it.

Imagine Paul Rogers singing "Its late".

Would it still be as good as Freddie's "Its Late".

Brian, Roger, and John wrote good songs. But Freddie made them GREAT.

Freddie himself was the BEST song writer of the band. That's why he was able to make song's like "Barcelona" and "The Fallen Priest" on his own. Those are Queen signature songs.

Freddie is probably 80% to 90% of Queen's success.

Brian, Roger, and John without Freddie would never amount to Queen's level of Success. They'd maybe be moderately successful as Smile.

Just watch. Queen + PR will BOMB sales wise, and they will never again be heard of. They have just one top 40 single. That's it.

That's how Brian and Roger and John would've gone without Freddie.

Freddie was 90% of Queen.



This kind of idiot is exactly what I'm talking about. This guy wants the whole enterprise to fail to prove that a man 17 years dead was 90% of the band. How big of you. If you love Freddie so much, go dig him up. I have a feeling he isn't going to sound too good, you fucking necrophyliac. And thus ends the reasoned discourse.


Blow it out your ass.
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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 15:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Nothing can be the same again" - great words! Everything changes, you can`t enter the same river. If they tried to compose an album with the same Queen sound, they would never succeed, cause, first, there are only two of them, second, music changes and develops and good musicians should be abreast of the times, not lagging behind, third, it would appear to be immitation. I think it is very clever of them to change. Though risky too: some fans may turn away, others will be hesitant or at a loss. It`s a new project, wow!

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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 17:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Ok, I don't think anybody here is denying Freddie's input with the band contributed greatly to what they eventually were and still are.

But what's the point in living in the past? No, sorry, you can do whatever you want but why would you want a Queen-related project to Bomb just to prove your point?

And, by the way, if there is one Queen song that suits Paul to a T and I think he would do great singing is precisely IT'S LATE.

I don't think Paul could get away with singing songs like Killer Queen, Somebody to Love or Bicycle Race. They don't suit him.

But, come on! He is GREAT with songs like Fat Bottomed Girls or Tie Your Mother Down.

Also, they now have a new album with new songs. Paul can relax and feel more at ease with the band. I saw the Ukraine video and he seems more comfortable fronting the band.

They have certainly come a long way since Brixton! :)



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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 17:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Wiley wrote:

Ok, I don't think anybody here is denying Freddie's input with the band contributed greatly to what they eventually were and still are.

But what's the point in living in the past? No, sorry, you can do whatever you want but why would you want a Queen-related project to Bomb just to prove your point?

And, by the way, if there is one Queen song that suits Paul to a T and I think he would do great singing is precisely IT'S LATE.

I don't think Paul could get away with singing songs like Killer Queen, Somebody to Love or Bicycle Race. They don't suit him.

But, come on! He is GREAT with songs like Fat Bottomed Girls or Tie Your Mother Down.

Also, they now have a new album with new songs. Paul can relax and feel more at ease with the band. I saw the Ukraine video and he seems more comfortable fronting the band.

They have certainly come a long way since Brixton! :)




The point is, if Freddie never sang "It's Late", and Paul Rodgers did, it would be a Good song, but not great.

Freddie made a good song into a great song. Therefore, people view Queen as one of the greatest, if not the best band.

Freddie made Queen Great. 90% of Queen's greatness is Freddie Mercury.

Brian and Roger Taylor, and John Deacon are merely Smile+.

"Barcelona", "Fallen Priest" are examples of the "Queen sound". These songs are very complex, like many of early Queen records. This came from Freddie Mercury, not Brian May or Roger Taylor.



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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 18:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

SomebodyWhoLoves wrote:


"Barcelona", "Fallen Priest" are examples of the "Queen sound". These songs are very complex, like many of early Queen records. This came from Freddie Mercury, not Brian May or Roger Taylor.



Wasn't the Fallen Priest mainly by tim rice, it has alot of his style in it like The Golden Boy.
Rice and mercury were very good together, there styles really connected, they should have done more.
Barcelona on the other hand is all freddie, and all good :)

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Posted: 17 Sep 08, 18:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

SomebodyWhoLoves wrote:

Wiley wrote:

Ok, I don't think anybody here is denying Freddie's input with the band contributed greatly to what they eventually were and still are.

But what's the point in living in the past? No, sorry, you can do whatever you want but why would you want a Queen-related project to Bomb just to prove your point?

And, by the way, if there is one Queen song that suits Paul to a T and I think he would do great singing is precisely IT'S LATE.

I don't think Paul could get away with singing songs like Killer Queen, Somebody to Love or Bicycle Race. They don't suit him.

But, come on! He is GREAT with songs like Fat Bottomed Girls or Tie Your Mother Down.

Also, they now have a new album with new songs. Paul can relax and feel more at ease with the band. I saw the Ukraine video and he seems more comfortable fronting the band.

They have certainly come a long way since Brixton! :)




The point is, if Freddie never sang "It's Late", and Paul Rodgers did, it would be a Good song, but not great.

Freddie made a good song into a great song. Therefore, people view Queen as one of the greatest, if not the best band.

Freddie made Queen Great. 90% of Queen's greatness is Freddie Mercury.

Brian and Roger Taylor, and John Deacon are merely Smile+.

"Barcelona", "Fallen Priest" are examples of the "Queen sound". These songs are very complex, like many of early Queen records. This came from Freddie Mercury, not Brian May or Roger Taylor.



totally agree with you! brian, roger and john made good songs BUT freddie made them great. Its a kind of magic, radio gaga, one vision etc are just some examples of how freddie rearranged the songs and made the much much better than they would have been without his input.

not to take anything away from john, roger and brian but we have to face the facts that Freddie was the soul of the band and THE reason why they were as good as they were.


Freddie Mercury is God

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