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Panchgani user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 26 Nov 08, 17:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Terror_attacks_in_Mumbai_80_dead_over_900_injured/articleshow/msid-3761410,curpg-2.cms

Hmmm ... I was just in Mumbai 5 days ago ...

India is a beautiful country with beautiful people ... this makes no sense.

When I was in India, I was told that minor terrorist attacks occur weekly, and semi-major attacks occur quarterly.  One friendly India, that I found to be hilarious, jokingly commented that Americans are too sensitive about terrorism.  He joked that Americans will invade a country when a few buildings on American soil are bombed (i.e. 9/11), but in India weekly terrorism in India is no big deal.

I have only slight worries about returning to India some day, as the hotel I stayed at is relatively ordinary, and is not likely to be targeted in the future.


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Posted: 26 Nov 08, 19:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Panchgani wrote:

One friendly India, that I found to be hilarious, jokingly commented that Americans are too sensitive about terrorism.  He joked that Americans will invade a country when a few buildings on American soil are bombed (i.e. 9/11), but in India weekly terrorism in India is no big deal.


If this is true then it's disturbing and disgraceful. Maybe it's this feeling, that weekly terrorism is no big deal, that allows acts like these to continue. Maybe if the attitude were changed and concern was given to the victims killed or maimed in these horrible attacks, there would be more vigilance and order, and less hatred and violence. But then again, just a week ago in India, a 15-year-old boy was beaten by an angry mob, had his head shaved by them and, bloodied and weeping, was paraded through a town. His mother was heard screaming for mercy and pleading for her son's life but instead of showing that mercy, that mob threw the boy onto the tracks just as a train came by. The mother watched as her child was crushed and killed. Why did this happen? Because that boy dared to write a love letter to a girl in a higher caste. 

That horror was explained away as a normal occurrence in India. To me, it was unfathomable and inexcusable. Though I forget, as an American, I must be too sensitive about normal weekly occurrences in other countries. 



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Posted: 26 Nov 08, 20:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Panchgani wrote:

One friendly India, that I found to be hilarious, jokingly commented that Americans are too sensitive about terrorism.  He joked that Americans will invade a country when a few buildings on American soil are bombed (i.e. 9/11), but in India weekly terrorism in India is no big deal.

Hoohoo, that "friendly India[n]" is a regular cut-up! Haha, 9/11, what a laugh! Almost 3,000 people killed?! Does the comedy ever stop?!?! Take my wife, PLEASE!


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Posted: 27 Nov 08, 00:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



 



Lester Burnham wrote:



 



 



 



 



Panchgani wrote:



 



One friendly India, that I found to be hilarious, jokingly commented that Americans are too sensitive about terrorism.  He joked that Americans will invade a country when a few buildings on American soil are bombed (i.e. 9/11), but in India weekly terrorism in India is no big deal.



 


Hoohoo, that "friendly India[n]" is a regular cut-up! Haha, 9/11, what a laugh! Almost 3,000 people killed?! Does the comedy ever stop?!?! Take my wife, PLEASE!

Dark humor is rarely politically correct ...

In the last 7 years, approximately 3000 people died in the US because of terrorism.  Comparatively over 3200 people died in 2005 alone because of terrorism in India.
 
So considering that terrorism is about 7 times more lethal in India than it is in the US, I believe it is understandable that some Indians easily dismiss the US invasion of Afghanistan (in reaction to 9/11).

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/index.html








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Posted: 27 Nov 08, 00:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

... Actually, I left Mumbai 12 days ago rather than 5 days ago ... time flies when one is having fun ...

Despite the terrorism in Mumbai (Bombay) today, India remains my favorite of 7 foreign countries I have visited:

Germany, India, China, Mexico, South Korea, Japan and Canada.

I absolutely love India ... its friendly and helpful people, its chaotic traffic, its delicious food, its fascinating brightly colorful mix of the modern and the dilapidated, the colorful and sexy billboards, and of course the hot chicks in colorful saris that often ride side-saddle on the back of motorcycles while holding onto their man.  

I would have almost no qualms about returning to India next year (if my wife and company would let me).  There is no way I intend to let some loser, fanatical terrorists dictate where I travel.  If anyone asked, I would just say that I am Canadian.

In case anyone gets the impression that India is just a hellhole because of terrorism, I have included links to my two recent positive topics about India as well as my uploaded photos of St Peter's and Panchgani:

Indian GPS:

http://queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=1149771

Panchgani visit and burnt piano:

http://queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=1149520

Panchgani pics:

http://queenzone.com/queenzone/picture_category.aspx?CATEGORY_ID=6




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Posted: 27 Nov 08, 02:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



magicalfreddiemercury wrote:

 just a week ago in India, a 15-year-old boy was beaten by an angry mob, had his head shaved by them and, bloodied and weeping, was paraded through a town. His mother was heard screaming for mercy and pleading for her son's life but instead of showing that mercy, that mob threw the boy onto the tracks just as a train came by. The mother watched as her child was crushed and killed. Why did this happen? Because that boy dared to write a love letter to a girl in a higher caste. 

That horror was explained away as a normal occurrence in India. To me, it was unfathomable and inexcusable. Though I forget, as an American, I must be too sensitive about normal weekly occurrences in other countries. 
Yeah, things like this are EXTREMELY common here. Like a few years ago, a Muslim boy in his 20's was drawn and quartered at a rail track because he was planning to elope with the daughter of a rich Hindu industrialist. A lot of commotion ensued following this incident but the case was dismissed because you know, India is just like that. Corruption and all...

These attacks are usually carried out in the Western cities of India because of the historic bad blood between Muslims and Hindus there. I live in Calcutta which is quite tame compared to the rest of the country in terms of terror attacks but we have our share of problems. There's a growing movement of radical Marxists in rural and poor areas who want to bring about "Revolution" by any means necessary in West Bengal. They're called Naxalites. Communal violence will probably persist in India till the end of time. It breaks my heart to say it, but it's true. I'm pretty sure the majority of Muslims in India are more loyal to Pakistan than to India. I know because as an ex-Muslim, I had lots of Muslim friends and they were always like, "Pakistan zindabad"("Hail Pakistan!"), "Bharat murdabad"("Death to India!") and shit like that. They always supported Pakistan over India in cricket matches. Some of these Muslims have really radical beliefs and they think that Muslims can't live in peace until India is "destroyed". It's disgusting really, but that's how it is.



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Posted: 27 Nov 08, 04:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

the English cricket team will do anything to avoid that 7-0 whitewash...


isnt innuendo an italian suppository?

im gonna ride the wild wind!

its_a_hard_life wrote:you nutcase you rule!

joxer replies: but in a nice way :-]

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Posted: 27 Nov 08, 08:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Panchgani wrote:

So considering that terrorism is about 7 times more lethal in India than it is in the US, I believe it is understandable that some Indians easily dismiss the US invasion of Afghanistan (in reaction to 9/11).

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/index.html

No, that's not understandable. You're saying that because some dismiss regular terrorist attacks in their country as normal, other countries should dismiss them as well? What is it? Just accepted as part of everyday  life? "How was your day, dear." "Same old, same old. My first bus was bombed so I had to wait for body parts to be cleaned up before I could catch the next one and then at lunch my office building was invaded by gun-toting terrorists. Only people with British and American passports were kidnapped though, so I managed to put in a few hours of work before dodging bullets on the run home. What's for dinner?"

Yeah. Maybe us Americans are too sensitive.


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Posted: 27 Nov 08, 08:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Dear Friends

I live in Mumbai. At this moment the cross-fire between the terrorists and the Inidan defence is still very much on. The most prestigious of Mumbai hotels - The Taj is under siege, and so is the equally posh Oberoi Trident.

It is true that in Mumbai (and infact throughout the nation), we have had so many terrorist attacks (with increasing frequency) that we have become somewhat de-sensitized to the whole thing. However, it does not mean that the common man does not bat an eyelid when these incidents occur. The fact is the people of Mumbai have infact become a lot more alert about the surroundings when in a public place. For example, everyone ensures there's not a single piece of baggae left unattended on the road, at railway stations, in trains or buses. But yes, whenever there's a blast, people get hyper for exactly one day and then its business as usual.

As for America being too sensitive to terrorism, there has not been a single major tragedy in the US of that sort ever since. Need we say more.

The problem with India is that its politicians are a hopeless lot. Their ONLY concern is to create vote-banks out of the various communities. India has all sorts of people - Hindu, Muslim, Christian. Among each of these, there are sub-communities, known as castes (yes, there are castes followed among the Muslims and the Christians as well over here). And believe it when I tell you that there are political parties which try to appease each of these communities. The government is formed as a coalition of many parties, as none recieves a clear majority on its own. As a result, they have to compramise a lot whne it comes to taking action against terrorists and even petty criminals.

Contd..


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Posted: 27 Nov 08, 08:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Reports from the armed forces say that the Taj has been liberated, and the Oberoi is currently under siege. This is on Reuters and spread to other news services from there, it seems.

The terrorists seem to have come by boats. The intelligence services were caught completely off guard.



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Posted: 27 Nov 08, 09:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Contd from previous...

An example - there were mulitple blasts in Delhi a month ago. Not surprisingly, the blast were in a crowded market during the weekend to cause maximum damage. The police in Delhi conducted investigations and concluded that local people were involved, possibly with support from across the border (Pakistan). The police raided an apartment in Delhi. A couple of the alleged terrosist were killed and 1 or 2 managed to escape. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in most countries the police would be congratulated for doing this much, or atleast supported by the people. But here, they were accused of having killed innocent people; the locality in which the raid happened was a mulsim majority area and the killed were all local muslims. Some muslim organizations leveled accusations that the polce was killing innocent muslims.

The fact that arms and ammunition was recivered from the aprtment made no difference to them. The fact that the life of a very prominent police officer was lost did not matter to them. The poile also established that they carried fake educatuion certificates, fake names etc, but these things did not matter. And would you believe it if i said that among those who accused the police of foul play, were also some politicians?

I have just been told that there is a new terrorist attack threat in my neighbourhood so i have to leave right away.The police are clearing out the area and i have to get home before all transport is shutdown. Had a lot more to say but that will have to wait.

I'm kinda nervous right now but GOD will take care hopefully.

Gooodbye.


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Posted: 27 Nov 08, 11:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yeah, you see, this is EXACTLY why I FUCKING HATE Muslims. They do shit like this and then wonder why people all hate them. Islam is the most hateful religion in the world, you can take it from me.

You know, just after 9/11 occurred, a video was released of Bin Laden quoting the Quran to justify his terrorist attacks. At the time, I was a Muslim. Then Osama instructed all Muslims to see the Quran for evidence. I was afraid to because I knew what he was going to say would probably be true...and it was. Islam instructs people to kill non-believers in the name of "spreading the message" or "ridding the world of Kafirs(infidels)". I've also heard many "Hadith" which reference forceful conversion and circumcision of conquered "infidels". And we all know what a tyrant and paedophile Muhammad(piss be upon him), who personally ordered the disembowelment of hundreds of subjugated Jews.



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Posted: 27 Nov 08, 13:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I beg to differ, Saif. 
Islam is not a hateful religion.  If it is, then so is Christianity and Judaisim. 
The actions that you speak of as being evidence of the hate inside of Islam are the same actions committed by Christians and Jews over the centuries since the development of the religions.  Sure there are passages in the Koran that sanction murder and other unspeakable crimes against humanity.  But the same passages can be found in Jewish and Christian holy books, particularly the Old Testament of the Bible. 

The question isn't of what the text says, but how they are viewed.  There are two ways to look at a holy text:  Literally and Metaphorically.  Those who take the text literally (referred to as fundamentalists) insist that the text means exactly what it says, it should not attempt to be interpreted because interpretation breeds corruption.  These are the people who point to the passages that speak to violence, murder, killing and slavery (among others) as being literal prescriptions for the faithful to follow.  They are the ones who commit these acts of violence, saying that the holy text says they can do it. 

However, except for the noisy and destructive and violent minority, this does not classify the religion.  Judaism, Christianity and Islam have adopted the view that the holy texts are more like guidelines that shouldn't be taken literally because they were the product of the people of the time they were written, and society has advanced considerably since their authorship.  Christians today don't sell their daughters into slavery or kill their sons for disobeying them (as sanctioned in the Old Testament), and the majority of Muslims don't kills others who refuse to believe as they do. 

The noisy, violent minority do not represent the religion.  Don't make the mistake of thinking that they do, or all you are doing is perpetuating the hate.   



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Posted: 27 Nov 08, 16:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I've also heard many "Hadith" which reference forceful conversion and circumcision of conquered "infidels"


That must hurt. Ouch.

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Posted: 27 Nov 08, 17:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I heard that now the death toll is at least 125 people...
this is too upsetting to hear about...


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Posted: 28 Nov 08, 04:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hello again.

I'm back in the office now after leaving for home yesterday in a hurry. Apparently the police were taking precautionary measures, all the places where people could be collecting -shopping malls, big hotels, etc in and around my locality were evacuated, and every vehicle on the street was stopped and searched. No incidents though, thank GOD.

Well to continue from where I left off yesterday, the curse on the Indian people is the complete lack of sincereity in the political class. The Delhi incident I referred to yesterday was just one example, byt every time an attack happens the asame thing is repeated. Recently there was another incident in which some Hindu terrorists are suspected to have been involved. In this case too, one of the most prominent politicians (who aspires to become the Prime Minister in the next elections) has critisised the harsh treatment meted out to the accused by the investogators during interrogations.

Dear Saif, no point in venting your anger ot Prophet Muhammad. It is the people who are responsible, not the religion itself. The same quotations from the Quran have been interpreted in two different ways. I am a Hindu, but dont hate any one just for being a Muslim; indeed my best friend is a Muslim, that too a female. But I hate every terrorist, no matter which religion.

I don't give a shit what  any scripture says, my concern is that I should be able to get on the street without the danger of being blown to pieces.

And I hold the government of our country compeletely responsible for the current situation. They have been extremely soft on terrorists. They keep the police on a leash, they refrain from calling a spade a spade in fear of losing muslim votes. The cops donot even have the bare minimum gear to face the attackers. The initial counter attack by the mumbai cops was a compelete failure purely because of their 19th century training and unifirm. All they had was a service revolver, no proper bullet proof vests and they were facing terrorists armed with AK 47s, night vision glasses and the most advanced bullet proof clothing. Not surprisingly, as soon as the police launched their counter-attack, the officers on the frontline were wiped out! That's when the commandos of the Indian army were called in and they managed to stop the inflitration from expandign further.

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Posted: 28 Nov 08, 04:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As AspiringPhilosopher says, every religion has a violent history, including Hinduism and even Buddhism (yes!).
That does not make the religion hateful, it is the people who need to be blamed.

I feel the important thing is to acknowledge the existence of the problem by the people of that religion. Nothing irritates me more than people making statements like "islam means peace", "terrorists have no religion", etc. Ofcourse these people are muslims and ofcourse these people are islamic terrorists. The sooner the muslims come to terms with this fact, the better for the country and indeed the world.

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Posted: 28 Nov 08, 12:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

My sister's high school friend is actually over there at this very moment, and since she usually doesn't stay with family we became really worried. My sister texted her, but my other sister & I tried urging her to call instead. We're not sure if she has service or is using a different phone... I hope nothing has happened to her though.


I'm so pissed I could spit.
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Posted: 29 Nov 08, 01:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Saif wrote:

Yeah, you see, this is EXACTLY why I FUCKING HATE Muslims.


Hoo boy.



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Posted: 29 Nov 08, 05:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

A good friend of mine is actually in Mumbai at the minute for his daughters wedding, we havent heard anything back from him but believe he is ok as apparently no Brits have have been declared missing. He had saved all of his holidays at work and had no time off all year to spend 3 weeks in India, and we are gutted for him. His daughter had her first wedding in the Uk 3 weeks ago and flew over to India to have a second wedding with all of their family, hopefully, with the wedding not until next week, the place should be back to some kind of normality.


Chom own mudder fukker.