Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > I've never said that the views of 'die hard' fans do not matter. I am one.

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Posted: 26 Dec 08, 07:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



CM wrote:

Dear Greg, just a simple question after reading all your words:

Most of people will be buying the same stuff for decades, OK, so... can we now say hardcore fans do not matter at all?

If so, I just need to know it so I can forget the dream of a Box Set.
And then I will live aware of We Will Rock You / We Are The Champions being released in another 100 new amazing formats is the only kind of product this world will hear from the best band of the planet.

Thanks in advance for your time, your answer and good work in things like the FM Box Set.

Dear friendly reasonable fair-minded and not remotely prejudiced against anything/everything the Queen Archivist says, writes or suggests, QZ chums...

It clearly suits a lot of you to believe and put 'out there' that it is my opinion (and that of the band) that the opinions and views of the die hard (long time serious) Queen fans does NOT matter. Many of you get really offended by my being honest enough to come out and say what most of us already know and understand. What is the point of you getting upset and offended, or 'put out' as we say here in the UK, over factors that are what they are, and always have been.

Exactly like YOU, my opinion is first and foremost from the perspective of a long term 'die hard' (I'm not keen on this term) fan. Though I do also have to keep my 'work' hat/perspective fixed too - which is no bad thing to me, while you hate it. Like you, I too wish that certain things could be pitched more at ME and US, and less at Mrs Brown in the street who only knows Queen's hits and two Queen videos... just like the Freddie 'Solo' box was pitched at us, and not at the masses, but I have to live in the real world.  We all do.

It's total bullshit that I endorse some stupid concept whereby the band or me thinks that the serious fans (I've been one since 1976) do not matter. It clearly suits many of you to propagate this childish misconception because it further alienates the nasty bad Queen Archivist from you the lovely but hard done-by people, but the fact is I don't think that.  I never have.  You lot have banded this and other similar bullshit around for so long now, you all believe it and take it as read.  More of you should do your own thinking and not be so willing to accept what you see commonly repeated here on MoanZone.

This (below) was my response to this point on another thread - though it's a fuller explanation here.  I don't care if you believe me or not. I honestly could not care less, as you must know: that's not my motive for this posting.  You will believe what you will, and twist my words any which way. That's what happens on QZ. That's fine too. But I have taken the time to tell it like it is.... mainly coz it's so boring to see my views so completely turned on their arse by some of you, so often, rather than properly LISTENING, because it suits you and, you probably think, puts me further out in the cold with the other nasty people you perceive as against you. This response should be clear even to those who are most stringently set upon misquoting me... again.

Misquote this, you contrary little monkeys....

Hello CM

I have never suggested that long time 'die hard' fans do not matter; I have only said, and it is irrefutably true, that it is the masses that matter most in the cold clinical world of industry and finance.  In the world of selling records it is obviously the majority that has the 'clout' (if you will) rather than the minority.  Record companies respond to the purchasing habits of the public.  No more, or less. There is no reason to be offended or upset by this. Such rules dictate most aspects of life in this type of context.

It is exactly the same principal as voting - voting in a true democracy I mean.  Yes YOUR vote counts, mine does too... but only a tiny bit if it's against the main flow of popular opinion.  If you and me and 1,000 others all vote for the little man (the unlikely runner with no chance of winning in the real world), while 10,000,000 vote for the bookie's favourite (let's call him BUSH just for now), then HE will obviously win, sickening though that prospect is for the minority who might think the 'product' in question is a total turd, and our minority votes won't have changed that.  Sad but true in the grown up world.

So....... ultimately it is the masses that make the difference, while the voices of the minority (even if there's a million of them) go pretty well unheard - amid the overwhelming decision of the collective masses.  The minority in this scenario feel all upset and ignored, while the 'masses' (you hate it when I use this term, but it's accurate enough) get their way and democracy rules.  299 in 300 of the population (let's say) are happier than pigs in mud, while 1 in 300 are really pissed off and indignant and go looking for a representative to get pissed off at.

I know that you and many others hate the fact that in the real world your/our minority views will be lost Vs that of the masses, but that still remains, as far as I know, the fairest way of things.

If you were EMI or Queen, would you pitch your 'product' at 1,000 die hard punters, or 40,000 general public music lovers????????  You know the answer to this and no doubt fully appreciate the dilemma, so why are you fighting it and being, apparently, all offended???  I don't like it either, but I see it is the fairest and most logical way of things. I cannot see the sense in getting agitated about these things when it is after all a 'business' that EMI and Queen, U2, Duffy, Clapton, etc etc are in.

I bet many of you, reading this, will run your own businesses. Some of you might be restraunteurs who offer a menu aimed at the majority who like it, while the minority hate it, fight it, resent it. shops that sell clothes stock limited sizes. They cater, mostly, for the most common and most popular sizes of people, while the minority (the unusually fat or thin) are NOT catered for, and get all aggressive.  That's the harsh clinical reality of business.   I simply cannot fathom why so many of you get so very very arsey when EMI/Queen release products that the masses love and buy in their hoards, but which you already had so get pissed off by.  Wembley 86 DVD, Montreal 81 DVD, Milton Keynes 82 DVD, GVH 1 & 2 DVDs.... etc.   These all were all No 1 in their charts - thanks to the MASSES mostly and the minority thereafter - as you surely must know.  Had they instead issued Hyde Pk 76 or Hammy 75, with perhaps 2 or 3 songs that the 'masses' would have heard of, they would have sold a quarter of the numbers, or a fifth or a tenth.

I think you guys seem to expect Queen to be the exception to every other profit generating operation in the known industrial world. You have a Utopian expectation, like I used to have, whereby only the rarest and most obscure material gets released, sells a few hundred copies to the die hards, makes a financial loss, but no matter because the die hard fans are happy.  That's just ludicrous.  The MASSES won't touch it coz they've never heard of a single track on it.  The Fairy Feller's WHAT?  Ogre Battle!  WTF!   What the Helll is Tenement Funster?????

Anyway... yes the minority view matters, but the MAJORITY vote and buying habits obviously matter a lot more. No point in resenting it or being aggrivated by it. 








GB
Holly2003 user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 26 Dec 08, 07:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

For no particular reason you've started another thread to repeat someting you've said previously. Is it an ego thing? Show some manners please and stop spamming the forum.


"With a population of 1.75 million, Northern Ireland should really be a footballing minnow. Instead, they could be better described as the piranhas of the international game" (FIFA.com)
Queen Archivist user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 26 Dec 08, 08:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

You don't have to read it, Holly. You could bugger off to another thread with your inane comments if you wanted to. That's the beauty of freedom of speech and choice. You can exercise your 'choice' right now.  And you're not exactly the most ego-less of individuals are you! 



GB
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Posted: 26 Dec 08, 08:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Queen Archivist wrote:

You don't have to read it, Holly. You could bugger off to another thread with your inane comments if you wanted to. That's the beauty of freedom of speech and choice. You can exercise your 'choice' right now.  And you're not exactly the most ego-less of individuals are you! 



Pathetic attempt to change the subject. Show some manners.






"With a population of 1.75 million, Northern Ireland should really be a footballing minnow. Instead, they could be better described as the piranhas of the international game" (FIFA.com)
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Posted: 26 Dec 08, 13:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I must admit... I was fairly one sided through this i.e that of QZ... but I actually think by reading his arguments I have been swayed. I'm still not going to buy the SBS, but in all fairness... what is the chance of him persuading a large company such as EMI to take a chance on a product that we the "die hards" would like to see?

Being a fan himself, I reckon he too would love the chance of a FMBS style Queen set... and have the chance to say he had worked on it personally.

Taking the personal nature out of these arguments, it does make sense that they would make something to appeal to the masses instead. I was going to buy a Doors DVD the other day, but having only known half the songs I decided against it (I suppose I'm more of a Doors GHs man). I suppose it would be the same for a Queen Greatest Hits fan... what's the chances of them buying something old with a bunch of songs they didn't know? Some probably wouldn't even know who Freddie was without the trademark moustache?

Plus, it wouldn't be that far fetched for some of us to be a tad jealous of his position (i know I am), it's only human nature after all!

One thing I would say though to Greg... why not start a thread where you have a Q & A session? Any questions you don't want to ask you could just say PASS. Any you feel you can answer... it's our lucky day. As a huge fan yourself, it would be a great privilege for you personally I'm sure, to pass on some of the info you've been privy to these last years... no?

Either way, it's nice to have you join the board now and then, I'd like to see it more often, maybe start with a clean slate... that goes for everyone involved? Even if it's just to stay in touch with other like minded fans.

I really enjoy it when John S Stuart, Fried Chicken, Sir GH etc get really deep into discussing their collection... it's why I come here... so having you add to that discussion can only benefit this board I'm sure.


on my way up user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 26 Dec 08, 14:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Greg, you make one big mistake: a DVD like Hyde Park would sell very very good! It's a legendary concert and many music fans prefer Queen from the seventies over Queen from the eighties.

I'm 200% sure about that, and I've seen it on general music boards too.

When QPR performed in Antwerp in 2005 the television reports(on Belgian TV) spoke about this show(not the wembley one).


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Posted: 26 Dec 08, 15:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Greg, I know the mid-'70s concerts don't have all the hits, but what about the Concerts For The People Of Kampuchea? Is it true that someone stole the multi-track, which is why they didn't release it?


"I never tie my own shoelace, I mean never. It's just not the thing done in rock and roll!"
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Posted: 26 Dec 08, 15:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Too bad it's always about money and attention. It think the world already knows that Queen is one of the biggest bands ever. And yes, they had their selling peaks with things like the GVH DVDs, Wembley etc. Plus, I don't think they have any financial problems, right?

So, I think the time has come that QP should take some "risks". Which means: releasing more obscure Queen material (my choice would be HP 76 (it even includes three hits!), but hey, who am I?)










John: "It's the one thing I wish I could do - sing."

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Posted: 26 Dec 08, 19:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Queen Archivist wrote:



Dear friendly reasonable fair-minded and not remotely prejudiced against anything/everything the Queen Archivist says, writes or suggests, QZ chums...


You really are a tit head, aren't you


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Posted: 26 Dec 08, 20:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

you all need to get lives, seriously fuckin nut cases


jeremiah
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Posted: 27 Dec 08, 07:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

lol
this pencil dick comes on forum and you all talk to him like he gives the shits????????

give up!!!!!!

Adolfo and the spiders from Mercury user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 30 Dec 08, 15:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

My God!! what a rude answer, I know I am no goodie goodie, but common, nobody here know who I am, or even what I look like, neither where I work, you would think someone with Greg's position would respond with some manners, I didnt think the question was threatening nor insulting



:)
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Posted: 30 Dec 08, 20:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hi GB

I understand the bussines point of view. But how about the back catalog (Queen, Queen II, SHA...)? I mean, you can easily find'em at the local music stores because people who started with GH's often start researching and finally, buying this stuff.

New Years Greetings to every one.

CM user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 31 Dec 08, 05:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks for the answer Greg.
I think you are just like one of us. You even go to the conventions and talk to fans about rare stuff every year.
I really think there should not be this kind of war in QZ where we all are fans of the best band in the world.
This is a good place to meet others with the same passion, and even share some recordings many of us have enjoyed so much.
So it is not my intention to say you do not care about hardcore fans.
The question I made came after the release of material which is not rare, and not new at all once again.
I dont like the situation because I always want more from the band I love, but I understand why things happen the way they do.
Best