Forums > Queen - General Discussion > Dream Theater nicked Queen riff?

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Saif user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Mar 09, 13:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I happen to be a BIG metalhead and Dream Theater incidentally is a band I like very much. Today I was listening to their song "Surrounded" which is by the by, a great song. What flabbergasted me was that the intro was NOTE FOR NOTE copy of the intro of Queen's "Father to Son" from Queen II. Dream Theater has acknowledged Queen as a tremendous influence on their music and has played many Queen songs live but they haven't given Queen credit for the intro...

Have a listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muIxc0w2Q_A

I mean seriously, that's not cool.



"only way to really know what the hell we are doing on this earth is through sacred plants and mushrooms." - Treasure Moment
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Posted: 13 Mar 09, 13:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Total ripoff

Saif user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Mar 09, 13:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

They do a great cover of "Death On Two Legs"... They've covered "Bohemian Rhapsody" as well as a plethora of Queen's harder songs. Look for them on YouTube.
But this was just atrocious. They thought no one would notice since the intro was ripped off from one of the most under-rated and lesser-known albums of all-time.



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Posted: 13 Mar 09, 14:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Agreed, it's a ripoff.




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Let us never lose the lessons we have learned." - Brian May
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Posted: 13 Mar 09, 16:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well, it's all about how you define a rip-off...

Theoretically-speaking, it's a D sus arpeggio played repeatedly.  Queen probably weren't the first to think about that, either.

As Brian May recently said, one can't create music from a vacuum.  You're bound to be influenced by things around you.  It may be the same notes, but Dream Theater do something completely different with them.

Although Dream Theater often wear their influences on their sleeve, Images And Words is a superb album - one of the best rock albums ever, as far as I'm concerned.  It's the one record they did that is completely focused on the songwriting.

To me, this thread just sounds like yet another case of Queen fans somehow trying to justify the ever-growing view that Queen were the first band to come up with countless musical ideas and are somehow not allowed to influence others, discrediting other artists when they do.  Until marketing became a big tool for music in the 50s and copyright laws came to be, it was seen as the greatest possible compliment and honour when someone quoted your song in their own.

History and details aside, really, who cares if a few notes are the same as a Queen song?  Queen were great, as are other bands.  Peace, love, and enjoy the music.




"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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Posted: 13 Mar 09, 16:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I agreed with Sir GH.

What about Pink Floyd´s Arnold Lyne and Now I´m Here?

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Posted: 13 Mar 09, 16:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

a rip off,or a small bit of silent praise?.


it,s late its late its late,its all to late..
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Posted: 13 Mar 09, 16:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I would say it´s a "riff-off".


Heap big woman you made an asshole outta me....gimme your bums and ride!!!!!!
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Posted: 13 Mar 09, 18:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH was spot on with every point.

Surrounded is a great song, and if the opening little arpeggio is lifted off Father to Son, I see it as more of a clever tribute than a ripoff.


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Posted: 13 Mar 09, 20:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Tribute...never thought of it that way, I guess. But it makes sense, they routinely pay tribute to Queen, Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd.
I don't have the view that Queen was the first band to come up with every musical idea. I guess I was so shocked that this wasn't mentioned anywhere before that I decided to post it.



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Posted: 13 Mar 09, 21:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Look for Dream Theater's "Big Medley." It's twelve minutes long, and a medley of songs by Kansas, Queen (hard rock part of Bo Rhap and the guitar solo), Pink Floyd, and a couple other bands. It's actually a great song, and not a note of it is Dream Theater's original work.



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Posted: 13 Mar 09, 22:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I know that song and love it. The medley contains songs that otherwise I would never listen to separately. Dream Theater sometimes covers entire albums, such as Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon. In some countries, they are widely anticipated to cover A Night At The Opera but James LaBrie said in some metal magazine that they "weren't ready" but it was inevitable. Let's wait and see. Here's to hoping they cover Queen II!



"only way to really know what the hell we are doing on this earth is through sacred plants and mushrooms." - Treasure Moment
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Posted: 15 Mar 09, 07:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Dream theater is a perfect example of highly skilled musicians who cant write a single decent song.


Freddie Mercury is God

TREASURE MOMENT: Continuing QUEENs footsteps

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Posted: 15 Mar 09, 07:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

^ whats your excuse then?


isnt innuendo an italian suppository?

im gonna ride the wild wind!

its_a_hard_life wrote:you nutcase you rule!

joxer replies: but in a nice way :-]

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Posted: 15 Mar 09, 14:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Get a clue, moron. Joxer isn't a musician. Joxer was referring to TM's poor musical skills.



"only way to really know what the hell we are doing on this earth is through sacred plants and mushrooms." - Treasure Moment
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Posted: 15 Mar 09, 21:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Whereas Treasure Moment is a perfect example of no-talent assclowns who can't write a single decent song.





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Posted: 16 Mar 09, 14:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Dream Theater and specially John Petrucci (the guitar player) always plays little parts of other people's song in their own songs (most of all in their live shows)... so is more like a tribute...
i saw them live a couple of times and they play little parts of: Whenever i may roam (Metallica), Mother (Pink Floyd), Starship Trooper (Yes) and a few more that i can remember... so in my opinion this is not a copy.

Bye!

(sorry for my english!)


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Posted: 16 Mar 09, 17:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

saif wrote :



I mean seriously, that's not cool



 
They thought no one would notice since the intro was ripped off from one of the most under-rated and lesser-known albums of all-time



 




don't have the view that Queen was the first band to come up with every musical idea. I guess I was so shocked that this wasn't mentioned anywhere before that I decided to post it.



 
Here's to hoping they cover Queen II








...you're just a walking talking contradiction lol, what a turnaround haha






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Posted: 16 Mar 09, 22:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I wrote this last year here on Queenzone and it's related to the topic at hand. A dear Queenzoner asked me to find the post and re-post it, and here it is. As always, I hope it helps:

"Hi, Boca!

I think music would be a very hard thing to do, even for the most gifted, if artists couldn't rely on other people's work, past and present, to create pieces of their own. In every piece of music there are signs of a certain, or of many, musical traditions - no one breakes new ground without being acquainted with what has already been achieved in the musical tradition. One has to start from some point. Things don't come up out of thin air or nothing.   

In the end of the day, however, if the composer is really imaginative, he succeeds in creating new, fresh interesting material from things he has listened to, read, remembers, and so on.

I think it's very hard to tell sometimes plagiarism from influence - some songs are so strikingly similar in some respects that one tends to think that the composer did only a "copy and paste" process, but that's not so simple.
 
Freddie's piano harmonic progressions and runs are reminiscent of dozens of classical pieces - you may find yourself listening to the introduction to "Death on Two Legs" or to the live intros to Somebody To Love in the works tour in the middle of a Liszt or Chopin composition - but then such artists as Liszt and Chopin or, as far as singing is concerned, Aretha, availed themselves of the tradition to create new ways of approaching an instrument or even vocals which turned out to be the very framework within which other artists would do their stuff. With time, their influence is so pervasive that one is just infected by it and tends to build things based on such influences unconsciously. Freddie's vocals in "Somebody to Love", especially in the 80's, seemed like a conscious effort to sound like Aretha - however, the song itself, even though it does have traditional gospel elements, is a new, fresh piece of music with a lot of innovation and creativity.  

The guitar introduction of Oasis' "Cigarretes & Alcohol" can be heard on Power Station's "Get it On", on about two or three Kiss' songs, and I started to try to trace it and it goes back to some basic blues progressions which happened to be developed to sound as a catchy and groovy rock n roll motive. These developments were so obvious, musically speaking, that different people made it on their own, only to find that someone else had already drawned that conclusion before. 

I think plagiarism, that is, the conscient reproduction of other people's work without acknolwdgement and any further significant input or innovation is very hard to prove. These things are not so clear-cut. 

Freddie and Brian were heavily influenced by many artists. Such influences do show up in a more striking way in some songs, but in the end of the day their own input is creative enough to produce new, fresh and interesting tunes. 

I can't help but remembering Robert Plant and Led when I listen to the original version of Sheer Heart Attack. There may be an influence there, but the Queen tune has a mark of its own and I like it more than any Led song.   

So, even though by listening to Queen I do listen partially, consciously or not, to other artists, I can't think of any song that the guys plagiarized. 

I know the answer turned out to be too long, but well, it's NO. I can't think of plagiarism in any Queen song - influence, even heavy influence, yes, but not really plagiarism. 

Cheers and take care!" 



Yara
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Posted: 17 Mar 09, 15:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Yara wrote:

I wrote this last year here on Queenzone and it's related to the topic at hand. A dear Queenzoner asked me to find the post and re-post it, and here it is. As always, I hope it helps:

"Hi, Boca!

I think music would be a very hard thing to do, even for the most gifted, if artists couldn't rely on other people's work, past and present, to create pieces of their own. In every piece of music there are signs of a certain, or of many, musical traditions - no one breakes new ground without being acquainted with what has already been achieved in the musical tradition. One has to start from some point. Things don't come up out of thin air or nothing.   

In the end of the day, however, if the composer is really imaginative, he succeeds in creating new, fresh interesting material from things he has listened to, read, remembers, and so on.

I think it's very hard to tell sometimes plagiarism from influence - some songs are so strikingly similar in some respects that one tends to think that the composer did only a "copy and paste" process, but that's not so simple.
 
Freddie's piano harmonic progressions and runs are reminiscent of dozens of classical pieces - you may find yourself listening to the introduction to "Death on Two Legs" or to the live intros to Somebody To Love in the works tour in the middle of a Liszt or Chopin composition - but then such artists as Liszt and Chopin or, as far as singing is concerned, Aretha, availed themselves of the tradition to create new ways of approaching an instrument or even vocals which turned out to be the very framework within which other artists would do their stuff. With time, their influence is so pervasive that one is just infected by it and tends to build things based on such influences unconsciously. Freddie's vocals in "Somebody to Love", especially in the 80's, seemed like a conscious effort to sound like Aretha - however, the song itself, even though it does have traditional gospel elements, is a new, fresh piece of music with a lot of innovation and creativity.  

The guitar introduction of Oasis' "Cigarretes & Alcohol" can be heard on Power Station's "Get it On", on about two or three Kiss' songs, and I started to try to trace it and it goes back to some basic blues progressions which happened to be developed to sound as a catchy and groovy rock n roll motive. These developments were so obvious, musically speaking, that different people made it on their own, only to find that someone else had already drawned that conclusion before. 

I think plagiarism, that is, the conscient reproduction of other people's work without acknolwdgement and any further significant input or innovation is very hard to prove. These things are not so clear-cut. 

Freddie and Brian were heavily influenced by many artists. Such influences do show up in a more striking way in some songs, but in the end of the day their own input is creative enough to produce new, fresh and interesting tunes. 

I can't help but remembering Robert Plant and Led when I listen to the original version of Sheer Heart Attack. There may be an influence there, but the Queen tune has a mark of its own and I like it more than any Led song.   

So, even though by listening to Queen I do listen partially, consciously or not, to other artists, I can't think of any song that the guys plagiarized. 

I know the answer turned out to be too long, but well, it's NO. I can't think of plagiarism in any Queen song - influence, even heavy influence, yes, but not really plagiarism. 

Cheers and take care!" 

You're head must be massive!








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