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Panchgani user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 16 Apr 09, 23:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Evidently, kidnapping and hostage-taking is socially acceptable behavior in France ...




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Posted: 16 Apr 09, 23:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Here is the link ... charming

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5126748/British-bosses-kidnapped-at-French-factory-released.html


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Posted: 17 Apr 09, 00:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hi! How are you?

I have not been following this, but I found the news so awkard!!!

I find it unlikely that "half the French" support kidnapping. Besides, the poll - name of the institute, method of research and so on - was not published, so it's tantamount to accusing without giving any kind of proof, to my mind. What kind of coverage is that!?

What's very important in these troubled times is the institutional reaction. And it was a good one. Sarkozy sent a very clear message:

"What is this business of kidnapping people? We abide by the rule of law, and I will not let this carry on," he said. "We understand that people are angry, but this anger will subside with answers and results, not by aggravating matters with actions which are against the law. I insist that the police and courts arrest and prosecute those workers who take the law into their own hands in this way."
 
Protesting, ok; fierce militant action within the boundaries of law, ok; kidnapping people for 18 hours, no, it's unnaceptable - and since there are French citizens among those who have been kidnapped, I find it hard to believe that "half the French", according to a ghostly poll, support this. :op 

What they may support, and then I find it reasonable, is stronger reaction by the population in order to protect jobs and preserve rights. That doesn't mean they support kidnapping. As for the sociologist, she's just remarking that this is a strategy used by workers during strikes, and not only in France, and which has been used for decades, to try to reach a balance in relations they perceive as absolutely assimetrical. There have been uglier strikes elsewhere in the past.  

These are very difficult times. Equating this kind of action with terrorism is misleading, I think. These are desperate workers, it seems, and unions who don't want to harm or kill anyone - they are preventing managers from leaving work places, for instance, as a way of enforcing the strike, but their aim is to, in a misguided way, I think, to protect jobs, not to undermine the very fabric of the democratic institutions. This happened a lot in so many countries - It doesn't seem terrorism, I can't think of French workers as terrorist groups with terrorist aims and goals.

A 18 hour kidnap within the context of strikes during a huge economic crisis is ugly and wrong, no doubt, but it's not a terrorist act; it's a criminal offense to be dealt with according to the traditional French legal system.

-----

Anyway, it's an interesting thread and I'll try to read more about it. I'm not claiming any special knowledge on this, it was just my reading of the article. 

Thank you for the thread, and I hope it helps at least furthering the discussion on the issue and inviting people to bring their input and knowledge on this!!!

Take care, and peace!





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Posted: 17 Apr 09, 06:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

French workers have always been more radical in fighting for their rights than other European workers. Once we were delayed on the (privately owned) autobahn in Southern France for 8 hours because French winegrowers had spilt tons of grapes on the autobahn in protest against some EU law that kept them from selling their wine as they wanted. On another occasion we were stopped on the same autobahn because French truckers had blocked the border to Spain in some act of protest.

The economic crisis will cause more protest and the worse it gets the worse the protests will be. People have nothing to lose, they feel that the elected politicians act only in favour of the share holders and bank managers. The more they believe that the democratic system no longer protects their rights the more they will disrespect the laws of the democratic system. Funny that the politicians are always the last who understand the gravity of the situation. You might think they did not see the street fights in Greece where the frustration of the young people exploded in violence over the whole country last year.


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Posted: 17 Apr 09, 06:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The term "kidnapping" overstates the matter a bit. It's more of a reverse form of picketing, and those held
"hostage" are, without exception, treated well (which extends so far as providing them with elaborate breakfasts, lunches and dinners), and the period for which they are held is rarely longer than one or at most two days.



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Posted: 17 Apr 09, 06:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



there are certain things one can rely on when its a British Bank Holiday/Easter
1] the cricket season starts
2] it pisses down with rain all week [see 1]
3] the sound of music/great escape/the greatest story ever told/ben hur is on tv and...
4] the French go on strike for one reason or another just to block all the roads/ports out of the UK and cause us shitloads of more misery than we usually get from the 'cheese eating,garlic smelling,onion wearing surrender monkeys'..



i swear,when i come to power im gonna close the channel tunnel and detour all our ferries to another country so we dont go near the frogs!




isnt innuendo an italian suppository?

im gonna ride the wild wind!

its_a_hard_life wrote:you nutcase you rule!

joxer replies: but in a nice way :-]

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Posted: 17 Apr 09, 09:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

At least you guys in Europe just have to worry about increased numbers of protests and kidnappings because of the recession. 

In America, people are going on murderous rampages over it and killing themselves/their families/innocent victims. 
I'd far rather just have to deal with the inconvenience of protests. 



Formerly MHG
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Posted: 17 Apr 09, 11:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Also, a fair portion of Detroit is abandoned, and houses are being torched.

France is in much better shape.




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Panchgani user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 17 Apr 09, 13:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

More insanity ...

Yet these people will still get to keep there jobs (despite horrendous insubordination) and will not face any jail time ...

http://www.manufacturing.net/News-Toyota-Workers-Protest-Halt-Production-At-French-Plant-041709.aspx


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Posted: 17 Apr 09, 18:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

French Terrorists?  Odd career choice.  After all, they don't get to go on strike...

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Posted: 17 Apr 09, 19:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Sir GH wrote:

Also, a fair portion of Detroit is abandoned, and houses are being torched.

France is in much better shape.


But that was happening before the economic crisis. 

It's better off that they are torching it.  I think they should get everyone out, raze it to the ground and start over again. 








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Posted: 29 Apr 09, 00:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I thought it'd be a helpful and good update on the subject as we approach May, 1th.

I hope you find it informative! :-)

Take care you all.

"By Henry Samuel, in Paris, 26 April 2009, Telegraph.

French unions unite for May Day protests
France is bracing itself for massive nationwide May Day protests this week against a backdrop of social unrest, with the country's unions marching all together for the first time since the end of the Second World War.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5225656/French-unions-unite-for-May-Day-protests.html



France has been hit by increasingly radical action as the economic crisis has led to factory closures and rising unemployment. Several chief executives have been "bossnapped" by angry workers seeking better severance conditions, a factory has been trashed and gas and electricity workers have launched protest power cuts. Dozens of universities are currently occupied by teachers and students over reforms. A third of students' exams have been delayed.

"Our country is hot-blooded, the social situation is tense," warned the former prime minister, Jean-Pierre Raffarin, over the weekend, days after another ex-prime minister, Dominique de Villepin, said France was running a "risk of revolution".



"Is a 'May 2009' possible in France?," asked Le Journal du Dimanche, referring to the general strike when workers and students joined forces in May 1968.



Two previous demonstrations against President Nicolas Sarkozy's handling of the economic crisis, in January and March, saw millions take to the streets.



Unions hope this May Day march will match 2002, when huge numbers turned out to protest Jean-Marie Le Pen, the far-Right Front National, reaching the second round of presidential elections.



Laurent Wauquiez, the secretary of state for employment, urged politicians not to "blow on the embers" of social unrest, singling out leftist radicals linked to the New Anti-Capitalist Party of Olivier Besancenot, a communist revolutionary postman, for "manipulating the situation to scare the French".



Although times were bad, he said, France was holding up better than its neighbours, including Britain: "In a year, unemployment has risen by 16 per cent in our country, versus 30 per cent in the UK," he said."




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Posted: 29 Apr 09, 04:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As long as the European governments keep believing that deregulation and the reduction of social security is the key to handle the crisis while they spend billions of taxpayer money to bail out the "system relevant" gamblers, social unrest will surely increase and god knows what happens when inflation hits the roof and devaluates millions of pensions and incomes. The question is: why should people not take to the streets as long as the elected representatives do not protect the interests of the working citizens?


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Posted: 29 Apr 09, 15:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Penetration_Guru wrote:

French Terrorists?  Odd career choice.  After all, they don't get to go on strike...

Ah, but they get to strike on "go".



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Posted: 29 Apr 09, 15:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



AspiringPhilosophe wrote:

At least you guys in Europe just have to worry about increased numbers of protests and kidnappings because of the recession. 

In America, people are going on murderous rampages over it and killing themselves/their families/innocent victims. 
I'd far rather just have to deal with the inconvenience of protests. 

Yeah, just that and the far-right getting strong boosts in the polls throughout Europe, just as in the '30s, just as in the '80s. It's what Europeans do instead of going on a killing spree: they organize a party to try and do it on a national scale.



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thomasquinn 32989 user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 29 Apr 09, 15:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Double Post. That's been a while!



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