Forums > Personal > How much anti-muslim / anti-immigrant sentiment is there where you live?

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thomasquinn 32989 user is on Queenzone.com
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Posted: 19 May 09, 06:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As a Dutchman, I have a pretty good view of Dutch public opinion, but I find it very difficult to establish the situation in other countries. Here, anti-islamic sentiments and anti-immigrant sentiments have pretty much become synonyms, and the situation is rapidly deteriorating, with a sizeable portion of the population (some 20% according to recent polls) taking a very hostile stand towards muslims and immigrants by supporting the political far right, and an increasing segment of the population (though still, fortunately, relatively small) actually advocating violence and murder towards muslims and immigrants.

Is the situation where you live similar to this, or is this something that is mercifully limited to Holland?



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Posted: 19 May 09, 09:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



i couldnt help but smile at the irony of the 'muslim matrimonials' advert on this page..

however,the answer to your question is "what muslims?" we havent got any registered muslims in Cornwall as was pointed out on local tv when the last census was carried out a few years back.



we do however have the largest contingence of registered Jedi in the UK




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Posted: 19 May 09, 13:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote:







i couldnt help but smile at the irony of the 'muslim matrimonials' advert on this page..

however,the answer to your question is "what muslims?" we havent got any registered muslims in Cornwall as was pointed out on local tv when the last census was carried out a few years back.







we do however have the largest contingence of registered Jedi in the UK






Ah, I see. I might have to move there. I'd rather have a bunch of harmless excentrics than be stuck in the biggest religious brawl since Luther told the Pope where he could shove it.



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Posted: 19 May 09, 15:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

We have problems with so-called "parallel societies" meaning Muslim immigrants (from Turkey) who do not speak the language, do not obey many laws here and build ghetto-like communities in the poorer parts of the big cities. Since Germans are very afraid to be called racists the issue is not dealt with in a matter-of-fact, effective way but we have the politically correct people on the one hand who demand that German teachers must learn the Turkish language to make it easier for the kids and the neo-nazis on the other end of the spectrum who try to create hatred against the minority - thankfully with little success so far.

I think it's not a religious issue at all, it's a cultural issue and Germany has to finally realize that we are a country with immigration and deal with it in an adult way. Then we can have laws like other immigration countries and set out the rules for immigrants. For example it's not a faith issue that women and men have equal rights, it's not in the Quran that Muslims must supress women. If we had immigration laws the immigrants would have to accept the constitution and laws of this country. There are (very few) problems with Islamistic imams and islamistic groups but they are handled by the police like other extremists.


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Posted: 19 May 09, 15:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I dunno how it works in European nations, but in Australia it comes as no surprise to me when there's an anti-Islamic sentiment.  First of all, there's a lot of racist assholes in my country.

Second... this happens every generation or so.  Once upon a time, Germans (because of WWII) got a lot of crap for being here.  My Dad had to put up with that, being a migrant worker in the 60's.... but nowadays, they're that integrated that you really don't get a big anti-German sentiment here unless you talk to people with dementia.

It just happens... the Germans, then Greeks, Vietnamise refugees, Lebanese... in no particular order.... when the public suddenly become aware (for whatever reason) of the presence of a particular minority, they go a bit mental about it for a while.

I would really like to believe that the hubbub about Islam will pass, and that they'll be regarded (by the sane folk in my land, at least) as jsut as acceptable as anyone else.  Fuck's sake, we live in a stolen country anyway.. we could at least share the fucking thing!


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Posted: 19 May 09, 19:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

To be blunt; It's rampant here. America's pretty bad about it anyway, but it's especially bad in the Southern states.



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Posted: 19 May 09, 20:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I worked at a store and a guy who is Muslim owns it. His brother moved to town as well and is manager of the store. They are hilarious guys and I've known the owner for about 6 years. There's a few Muslim familes in my town, of about 6,000. I only recall about one person who hates Muslims in this town, and the guy is an old asshole anyways. I hear more rascism and hatred about black people.



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Posted: 19 May 09, 23:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Sweet Insanity wrote:

I worked at a store and a guy who is Muslim owns it. His brother moved to town as well and is manager of the store. They are hilarious guys and I've known the owner for about 6 years. There's a few Muslim familes in my town, of about 6,000. I only recall about one person who hates Muslims in this town, and the guy is an old asshole anyways. I hear more rascism and hatred about black people.


The great thing about Newport is that people of all races, creeds and colours can unite in their dislike of you.

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Posted: 19 May 09, 23:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



ThomasQuinn wrote:

As a Dutchman, I have a pretty good view of Dutch public opinion, but I find it very difficult to establish the situation in other countries. Here, anti-islamic sentiments and anti-immigrant sentiments have pretty much become synonyms, and the situation is rapidly deteriorating, with a sizeable portion of the population (some 20% according to recent polls) taking a very hostile stand towards muslims and immigrants by supporting the political far right, and an increasing segment of the population (though still, fortunately, relatively small) actually advocating violence and murder towards muslims and immigrants.

Is the situation where you live similar to this, or is this something that is mercifully limited to Holland?

Dear Thomas,

I hope you're doing fine.

You always bring up interesting thoughtful thread. Thanks for this.

I think the Brazilian perspective hardly matters here...lol...but, here it goes: we have absolutely no anti-muslim feeling. None at all. In fact, we're here very pro-Muslim and sympathetic to many of their plights in many regions of the world. We have a very big, large Muslim community in Brazil, and there have been post-graduate courses on Arab language, culture and literature, for instance, for a long time. We've had at least three direct translations of the egyptian and syriac versions of1001 Nights from Arabic into Portuguese; at least six or seven of the Q'ran. Both pre-Muslim Arab culture and Muslim Culture - caligraphy, religion, and so on - generate a lot of interest in people.

Take politics, for instance: Brazilians, even in foreign relations, tend to be much more sympathetic to Muslims in general, and Palestinians in particular, than to Israel - contrary to what happens in the U.S, I guess. 

Even though I'm Jewish, very religious - I was brought up in a quite strict hasidic tradition - and lived in Israel for a good deal of time, the only way I can relate to politics is through humanitarian work - the kind of work one does regardless of whether the victims are Muslims, Jews, Christians, Whites, Blacks...whenever brutality is committed and the most basic human rights of people are denied, no matter what's their religion or race, I get saddened. I work translating reports and articles for a Human Rights Organization and that's how I can relate to politics - being against the disrespect for human rights, the rule of law, violence in general, war, racism. I have no interest whatsoever in the official politics of the minor or major parties. 

Thanks for the thread, my dear, and take care!!!

Have a nice day!

Yara


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Posted: 20 May 09, 03:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

There is very little if any visible anti-immigrant sentiment in my neighbourhood.
However, this lack of open racism is conpensated by the unreasonable level of open intolerance and hatred directed towards "normal everyday phenomenons" such as bicycling as a form of transport :)






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Posted: 20 May 09, 06:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

@ Everyone:

So it looks like it's becoming more or less endemic to the western world. Hopefully, it'll just be a short episode, with less disastrous consequences than the anti-semitism of the early 20th century. Thank you for sharing your experiences on the subject; I must say that I recognize quite a bit of it. Scandinavia and South America seem to be coping quite well so far, so the rest of our nations might yet come to their senses...somewhat. As far as I am aware, there have always been xenophobic sentiments in pretty much every country, but I had not experienced anything quite so virulent as the last three to five years. Fortunately, it looks like the sane people still outnumber the bigots.



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Posted: 20 May 09, 10:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Unless you read the Telegraaf, Spits or GeenStijl of course :P





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Posted: 20 May 09, 10:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



FriedChicken wrote:

Unless you read the Telegraaf, Spits or GeenStijl of course :P



or the Daily Mail








isnt innuendo an italian suppository?

im gonna ride the wild wind!

its_a_hard_life wrote:you nutcase you rule!

joxer replies: but in a nice way :-]

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Posted: 20 May 09, 11:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Tabloids are of all times and places, I'm afraid. Just different guises.



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Posted: 20 May 09, 22:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Dan Corson V: December Boy wrote:

To be blunt; It's rampant here. America's pretty bad about it anyway, but it's especially bad in the Southern states.







To be honest, I am not sure how true that is. 
I would say that, racism is equally distributed around the world.  And, most new studies show that, as older generations die, racism slowly creeps down.

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Posted: 21 May 09, 01:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Okay then, I'll sat it's bad in MY area of the South.



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Posted: 21 May 09, 12:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As far as the US goes, I'd have to agree that it depends on where you are.  Granted in the US it was pretty bad after 9-11 (again, mostly limited to the south.  I was in MI at the time where there is a LARGE congregation of muslim population and though they were nervous for a while after 9-11 they said they didn't have anything bad happen to them).  All I can say in Kansas is that, at least in my area, I haven't seen a Muslim person yet, though I'm sure there are some in the bigger cities I'm not in on a regular basis.  We have a bigger problem with racism towards Hispanics here than anything else. 

I think Zebonka brings up a good point; the racism thing tends to cycle.  Though I would add that it cycles depending upon how visible the minority is.  Given the religious dress (at least headscarves for women) that many Muslims keep when they move to a new area, that makes it visually obvious that they are outsiders.  Combine that with something like the War on Terror and unfortunately it's like walking around with a large bullseye on your back.  Not that I'm saying they should forget their religious and cultural manner of dress or anything like that, I personally think that variety is the spice of life.  I'm just making an observation. 

As far as The Netherlands goes, a very dear Dutch friend of mine and I have been talking about this via e-mail for a while now.  Support for Wilders and the Christian Democrats in your country growing is, we both think, natural in a time like this and neither of us think Islam really has anything to do with it.  Anger towards the European Union, the economic "death spiral" (Jon Stewart's words, not mine), and the contstant media attention to how bad things are tends to result in a socital and political re-trenching; not to mention trying to find a scapegoat to blame it all on. 

Look at it this way: at least that psycho that tried to kill the Royal Family during Queen's Day wasn't Islamic or a minority.  You think anti-minority sentiment is bad now?  It would have been what you have now times a million if he had been.   



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Posted: 21 May 09, 13:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well... here in Spain, specially in Gran Canaria, there's a bit of everything.

Funny fact that in Venezuela what the president and the people who surrounds him "hate" is the US standarts, but that is masked with the hate for the people who has something.


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Posted: 21 May 09, 16:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



 



AspiringPhilosophe wrote:



As far as the US goes...


-------------

Hi, AspiringPhilosophe! :-))

How are you? I hope you're doing fine. I liked your nickname and the Avatar pic is very, very beautiful. I don't think we have talked before, so it's very nice to meet you and "talk" to you!  

Great post you wrote there. It was very interesting to read it. A delight. Thank you a lot for devoting part of your time to contributing to the discussion.  

May I ask you something? How do you think that what seems to be like an almost unconditional support by the U.S for Israel factors into all this? 

I ask you that because I'm Jewish, I have lived in Israel for a good deal of time and part of my free time I devote to translating reports and articles from very respectful Human Rights Org. and it seem to me sometimes that this support makes Muslims ill-disposed towards the U.S and, in return, a small, though vocal, part of the U.S population replies to this resentment in a more offensive way.  

As Obama is already annoucing that he won't be holding talks to Iran forever, thus hinting at a military offensive, I guess this "hate spiral" may actually increase if proper measures aren't taken - many Muslims here in Lebanese communities in the city I live are all too pissed off with the U.S policy of torturing detainess. This seems to generate hatred among Muslims and the hatred only makes all this worse, I guess. 

Do you think these major questions regarding foreign relations have a relevant, if at all, impact on anti-Muslim sentiments?

The other question, if there were enough time to discuss it :op, would be: how to deal with Iran? That country has a gruesome Human Rights record, and I'm not even talking about the nuclear threats. The regime is already cruel enough, but do you think it may get worse? I fear for the Iranian population. First, because many of them are unwillingly under the boots of a hateful regime; second, because, if any military action takes place, they'd be the first to pay the bill...  

Your post was a delight to read. I'd love to know what you think about this.

Yours,

Yara.


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Posted: 21 May 09, 20:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

If you go to Detroit is Rampant a little, since there is more Muslims in Detroit then any where else in the states, they are pretty much considered 4th class citizens, after Blacks, Hispanics. Every time I go there it seems each of the ethic communities continue to grow while most of the rich white people move away from the city.

You always see White people friendly face to face, but once some one of another race leaves the area the jokes fly. It goes for other races as well.



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