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12yrslouetta user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 27 Jun 09, 05:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

sad loss the michael jackson died.  i thought he was brilliant.  great voice and great song writer.
anyway i smiled when i read brian mays thoughts on michael jackson.  he still compares, ever so loosely, hotspace and thriller.  They are so far apart in direction and execution im not sure that you can mention them in the same breath, let alone the same sentence.  And im not saying that because hot space is rubbish, on the contrary, i love that album. see i never ever ever thought of queen of being a rock band so as soon as i heard the first bar of staying power i already loved the album.  Queen just explored different things so i was excited by hot space.  but to compare it to thriller just seems very odd indeed. and to say it was all about timing of the release.......hmmmmmm.i wonder if brian may has ever heard thriller.

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Posted: 27 Jun 09, 06:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

By the time 'Hot Space' was issued, 'Thriller' was already a work in progress. So it's not only illogical to think it was its inspiration in mathematical terms, but also, as you say, by simply listening to the album.

I sort of think the opposite: Beat It vs Invisible Man.



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 27 Jun 09, 07:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I dont think there was really an influence there in the way Brian seems to hint, but I do understand and accept part of what he is getting at - Queen were a rock band attempting to make an album with funk/disco influences, whereas Michael Jackson was a funk/disco type act trying to make an album with certain rock influences.

Queen didnt get it quite right in that although the album is interesting as a change of direction, personally I dont think most of the songs were good enough, or catchy enough to sell to either their usual audience, or a more general, pop audience in a great amount.
On the other hand, Thriller is a bit of a masterpiece in pop music and blends the above influences tremendously well.

I dont think it was timing - Jackson just did it better!

I dont hate Hot Space though - I find it fun to listen to, and a nice change of gear in the Queen catalogue.


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Posted: 27 Jun 09, 09:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Michael Jackson himself once said there would have been no Thriller without Hot Space.




"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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Posted: 27 Jun 09, 10:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Bullshit

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Posted: 27 Jun 09, 10:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Sir GH wrote:

Michael Jackson himself once said there would have been no Thriller without Hot Space.


Indeed!

Also, let's not forget Michael was friends with Freddie at that time. He gave Queen the tip to release Another one bites the dust as a single( a 1980 song that made Queen do more songs like that, as we all know). He certainly knew what new grounds Queen was discovering and that probably inspired him.

Despite the claims to the contrary that i've read here, I can see similarities between Thriller and Hot Space.
That said, Thriller is much much better than Hot Space. Michael(and Quincy of course) got it right. They had the song and the sounds. Queen's songs were not as good and the production left a lot to be desired.










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Posted: 27 Jun 09, 15:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think Brian is right, regarding feedback on both albums.

I think that some evidence between how both albums were produced, is that of comparing Thriller/Beat It and Staying Power/Dancer. Look the solo on Beat and Dancer, and the horns and funk on Thriler and SP.

Also, bare in mind, that during that time, Freddie and Michael produced and sang three songs: There must be more in life than this, State of Shock and another one. Songwriting there is kinda same.

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Posted: 27 Jun 09, 18:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Sir GH wrote:

Michael Jackson himself once said there would have been no Thriller without Hot Space.


When and where?



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 27 Jun 09, 18:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

in Neverland after smoking some pots and screwing a few guys.


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Posted: 27 Jun 09, 19:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

hmmm its interesting that you can compare the two, i dont really hear any similarities whatsoever. its funny that we hear different things isnt it?michael jackson was already a huge star before thriller, and he had a huge audience.  thriller is a continuation of "off the wall" imho.  very different but still very much michael jackson.  also, im of the opinion that just because he spoke or became friendly with freddie mercury for a short time doesnt really mean anything, michael jackson was friends with a whole host of stars, and he was always savy enough to beat to his own drum.  



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Posted: 27 Jun 09, 23:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



12yrslouetta wrote:

hmmm its interesting that you can compare the two, i dont really hear any similarities whatsoever. its funny that we hear different things isnt it?michael jackson was already a huge star before thriller, and he had a huge audience.  thriller is a continuation of "off the wall" imho.  very different but still very much michael jackson.  also, im of the opinion that just because he spoke or became friendly with freddie mercury for a short time doesnt really mean anything, michael jackson was friends with a whole host of stars, and he was always savy enough to beat to his own drum.  






it's strange to me that you don't hear similarities between hot space and thriller.  Listen to "beat it" then listen to dancer and back chat,  A pop song with a rock guitar solo, it's pretty obvious.....  Brian may's comment that hot space wasn't successful because of timing?...I think timing had a little to do with it, but the bottom line is that the songs wern't nearly as good as what's on thriller. If the songs were great the album would have been big......   I like hot space myself, a fun little album, but it was missing that something special.  hot space might have been an influence, but too say there wouldn't have been a thriller without it is being a little arrogant as a queen fan.  I'm sure thriller had many influences.




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Posted: 27 Jun 09, 23:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote







 Sebastian wrote:



















Sir GH wrote:







Michael Jackson himself once said there would have been no Thriller without Hot Space.






When and where?

I don't remember exactly... but it was an interview from that era that I read a transcription of a few years back.

That aside, I'm pretty sure Freddie influenced Michael's music otherwise.  There are so many musical similarities between Love Me Like There's No Tomorrow and Heal The World.  In my eyes, those are two of the greatest pop songs ever written.



L-R-TIGER1994 wrote:

in Neverland after smoking some pots and screwing a few guys.

Shhhh... quiet.  The adults are talking.




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Posted: 28 Jun 09, 00:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Sir GH wrote:

Michael Jackson himself once said there would have been no Thriller without Hot Space.




when?where?any info?leave it to experts please.






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Posted: 28 Jun 09, 01:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote















L-R-TIGER1994 wrote:











































Sir GH wrote:















Michael Jackson himself once said there would have been no Thriller without Hot Space.














when?where?any info?leave it to experts please.


Ok, you've made your point.  You retaliate because I point out your lies and lack of common decency.  We get it.

Stop being a troll, wasting webspace with your spam that doesn't add to the conversation.




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Posted: 28 Jun 09, 04:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Also Hot Space only had 3 songs that were comparable - Staying Power, Dancer and BackChat.
Are any othose songs as good as Billie Jean, Beat It or Thriller..... I don't think so.

Despite Queen's success Brian May still has some chips on his shoulder and chooses some inappropriate times to air some of his views.

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Posted: 28 Jun 09, 05:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think 'our timing was off' is a better excuse than 'our record was shite' when it comes to explaining why it wasn't very successful.

As for the quote, I'd usually take Bob's word for it, but not in this case: if it were real, it'd have probably surfaced a long time ago (as it happened with Roger Waters' one about songwriters), plus I suppose there'd be something about it on 'Moonwalk', and there isn't.



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 28 Jun 09, 09:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Michael Jackson himself once said there would have been no Dangerous without The Cosmos Rock.


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Posted: 28 Jun 09, 10:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hi, folks.

How are you?

Well...I in fact agree with all of you in many aspects but I make a different sense out of much what you all guys correctly remarked . Back in 1983, during an interview with Lisa, I guess it's available on youtube, Freddie talked about his collaboration with Michael Jackson and said that Michael Jackson actually wanted to cast him in Thriller's video - Freddie said that, due to conflicting schedules, he wasn't able to do it - I guess it's fair to say that Michael Jackson would only bestow this honor upon someone who had really influenced him. And there are signs of it indeed: as on my way up pointed out above, Michael Jackson had been listening to Queen back in 1979/1980 and was friends with Freddie and the band, to the point of suggesting Another One Bites The Dust as a single: all this info come from interviews given by the guys at the time "The Game" and "Hot Space" were done.

In terms of sound, well, I like both the Game and Hot Space better than Michael's albums - it's one of those interesting moments in history which showcase that musicianship alone doesn't make a genius sometimes. Hot Space is much more interesting musically and way more daring in terms of crossing different kinds of music - more: it was Queen, back then, who translated that sound to the stage: Freddie had the power in his voice to make it happen live and to really sound as a soul/R&B singer. Brian May had the talent to play the guitar on stage over funk or beat textures and give the songs the right dancing groove.  Freddie's performances of Action This Day or Staying Power at MK have him singing different genres squarely in a single song - by the time he's singing "give it to me, give it to me right now, give it to me...action, action...", during Action this Day, actually improvising at ease just like many great soul singers, one feels like listening to the male version of Aretha Franklin backed up by a rock band playing along some funky beats.  

What really set Michael apart was not the sound - it was the visual. And that's where Queen was failing miserably back then next to Michael Jackson. Michael's videos are unforgettable; he elevated dancing to a state of art and all this helped boost the songs and give them the power they have up until today: his sheer creativity for dance moves and his gorgeous ideas for videos were quite unique. People were eager back then for the all-encompassing experience which Michael was able to provide - putting amazing videos, distinctive new and absolutely appealling coreographies and dances and, yes, good original songs together in a way it had NEVER been done before.  He was a genius in managing to deal with all those elements and putting it all together and redefining pop-music.    

Even so, I pick Action This Day or Staying Power or Dragon Attack over Beat It any time - even Fun It, which is a song I simply adore and is very well thought out. "Fun It" has a very interesting arrangement which wasn't that obvious back in 1978 as far as mainstream, top-selling artists were concerned.  

It's the "poor Neil Young thing". lol Dylan's Knocking on Heaven's door is a straight copy from Neil Young's Helpless - by "copy" I mean: it's really the same song, whether by coincidence or not (I think it is by coincidence). Though something set Dylan apart: the lyrics and its clever universal appeal which made it suitable both for the soundtrack of Pat G. and Billy the Kid and for the times - willingly or not, Dylan hit a political nerve with the song as Nixon was bombing Camdodia. 

Neil Young's musicianship wasn't enough to make his song a legend; it took the genius of someone like Dylan, who was able to give basically the same song a different spin and great lyrics suitable for both a movie and a more general audience. He pulled all this elements together and composed the song which became a legend.
 
That's my take on this subject. :-)) 

Take care you all!     
Have a great SUNDAY!!!YEAHHHH!
Yara.




Yara
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Posted: 28 Jun 09, 10:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yara: it is true that:

- MJ liked Queen, watched their shows, and his favourite song by the band (before 'The Game' at least) was Champions.
- MJ suggested AOBtD as a single (he wasn't the first one, though).
- MJ worked with FM in some tracks.
- FM lost his chance to be in Thriller.
- MJ indeed was one of Freddie's top favourite singers (unlike Paul Rodgers).

But, from the points above to 'without "Hot Space" there would be no "Thriller"' there are light years...


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 28 Jun 09, 11:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I too find the connection plausible, but tenuous.  Emboldened by the crossover success of AOBTD, Hot Space became a "dancier" type of record, and it destroyed Queen's US fan base.  Queen were a hard rock band whose greatest songs all fell into the realm of what was called Album Oriented Rock (AOR) at the time.  Hot Space for the most part was not AOR music, and with the exception of Dancer and Back Chat, not really at all like Thriller. Staying Power, poor instrumentation aside, would certainly be a Jackson 5 influenced song, pulsing bass drum a la ABC, r' n' b horns, truly "black" music.  Dancer was plodding at best, Back Chat was a weak funk song.  Body language was more Euro-disco than American funk or dance, and Action This Day was more new wavish than black dance or funk.  Put out the Fire was classic Queen sounding, Life is Real was a sparse ballad, Calling All Girls sparse and modern but not black dance or funk, Las Palabras was a Queen ballad with synth ornamentation, Cool Cat was black dance or funk, but arguably terrible, and Under Pressure was another modern for the times rock song.  If Brian is referring to Michael Jackson attempting to cross over to a white audience in great numbers, and Beat It was the result, I can see it.  But you could dance to Beat It.  It was rhythmically fantastic, and MJ knew the world of dance.  The Lukather rhythm and VH solo brought over people who probably wouldn't have given MJ the time of day musically.  Same as Queen got with AOBTD.  They hit a grand slam home run with that, but really would people who liked that song give Ogre Battle or Brighton Rock the time of day?  No.  Same with MJ.  He had success after Thriller but his attempts to do rock/funk were formulaic with Steve Stevens on Dirty Diana, and Slashon Black and Whoite, and he was trying to recreate whathe wasn't; a rocker.  Brian is many things, and not disrespectfully, he is not cool, and Dancer sounded like a guy who couldn't dance or make the club scene trying to fit in.  Didn't work.