Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Mistakes in 'Bechstein Debauchery'

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Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 09 Sep 09, 19:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Lately, I've corrected several bits in my website, but I'm pretty sure there are still loads more. So, anybody who wants to contribute, please feel free to do it. Posting your corrections or doubts here allows everybody to read and discuss.

So far, I've corrected some info on backing vocals - Roger did sing on Champions, Brian did sing on Dear Friends, and I've added Abbey Road to the studios used in 'Magic' as well as Sterling Sound in 'Hot Space'.

Anything further will be appreciated.



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
Yara user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 09 Sep 09, 22:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Not exactly a correction. Or: not a correction at all. It’s just that, given the info you have gathered and the research you made, it’d be interesting to present it in different ways to both appeal to and inform fans. For instance: I always thought it’d be nice to have a section devoted to the guys’ opinions about each song. Let’s say: "White Man". Then there’d be a series of quotes beginning with the composer’s remarks - May’s own thoughts about it and, then, for instance, Freddie’s comments on it, as in some interviews Freddie used to make a sort of little review of the albums. Then Roger’s, and so on. For some songs there’d be a good amount of quotes and for others not that much - it’d be an interesting way to see how they regarded each other’s works and how their opinion eventually changed over time. It could be a reader-friendly guide to the way the band changed over time - from Freddie saying back in the middle of the 70’s that he preferred listening to Brian than to any synths, acknowledging May’s prowess as an arranger, to Brian’s own enthusiastic remarks about the possibilities opened up by more advanced keyboards and other technological innovations for the musician to expand his sound landscape.

A friendly-guide to Queen and part of rock history too, I guess.

It’s just an idea. I feel you have the research, you have the info, but sometimes, and I mean it in the most constructive sense, you could present it in a more appealing way, I don’t know.

I hope it helps in some way.    



Yara
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Posted: 10 Sep 09, 07:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Nothing to add yet, other than my appreciation and thanks for the site

Cheers

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Posted: 10 Sep 09, 09:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Sebastian wrote:

Lately, I've corrected several bits in my website, but I'm pretty sure there are still loads more. So, anybody who wants to contribute, please feel free to do it. Posting your corrections or doubts here allows everybody to read and discuss.

So far, I've corrected some info on backing vocals - Roger did sing on Champions, Brian did sing on Dear Friends, and I've added Abbey Road to the studios used in 'Magic' as well as Sterling Sound in 'Hot Space'.

Anything further will be appreciated.



Just add the description of every channel of the leaked multi-tracks and I'll be very happy :)





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Posted: 10 Sep 09, 10:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Very nice new layout to the site! It looks much more organized.

These aren't corrections per se, just something I noticed; the pages for Liar, Jesus, The Night Comes Down, Seven Seas of Rhye, Modern Times Rock n Roll, Mad The Swine, and Son & Daughter aren't opening up.

Also, on the Queen II page, you post that "they sequenced the tracks in blocks of songwriters: Maylor and Mercury." Did you mean to type "Taylor" or do you mean a combination of songs from Taylor & May (clever name if so).

And, not so much a correction as a question: who were the kids singing in Teo Torriate and are any of the boys singing during that particular section?

And, in Millionaire Waltz, it might be good to note the similarity to I'm A Little Black Rain-Cloud from Winnie the Pooh. I believe that was on BD before. I'm not sure if he deliberately took it from WtP (actually I think it was from a classical composer) but it's still note worthy.

And, probably to the screams of most Queenies here, you might consider putting some Q+PR info in there. Otherwise and in spite of this, a very thorough and gorgeous Queen site with more info and appreciation than you can shake a stick at! I'm hoping the Good Doctor knows about this!

Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 10 Sep 09, 13:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks for your comments so far

There are still loads of things to be transferred from older versions to the current one, including the Waltz thing (I want to add sheets to compare more thoroughly).

Quotes: I'm adding them slowly, including a link. For instance: http://sebastian.queenconcerts.com/1-ssorhye.htm

Links on the 'Queen' album: a huge blunder... got to correct it this weekend. Meanwhile, change the '7' by '1' in the URL bar.

About guitar vs synths: It's important to note that:

1. Brian was, most of the time, the one who PLAYED the choirs, but not necessarily the one who ARRANGED them. That was input from all four, and more often than not, the creator of the song.

2. Although both the band and the fans tend to label Queen (especially their early work) as guitars+vocals, it's unfair: drums, bass and piano are VERY important. That's one of the main purposes of the site, at least for the foreseeable future.

Multitrack thing: Yes, I'll add that, as soon as I proof-read them and plan a good layout. So far there's only KQ: http://sebastian.queenconcerts.com/3-kqueen.htm.

Coming up next: Studios used for each particular song (the ones that can be inferred, at least).

Maylor is indeed a portmanteu, but it wasn't my idea: I read it and incorporated it to my everyday vocabulary.

Teo: Apparently it's more a 'female' choir than a 'kid' one, but I agree the topic does deserve more research.

Non-Queen things (including No-One But You and beyond): If you want info about them, I'm afraid you're gonna have to look it up in other websites (e.g. the magnificent Queenpedia), rather than mine. OTOH, I may add info on solo albums next year (and maybe collaborations + guest appearances after the World Cup - depending on who the winner is), but so far I've never listened to 'TCR' and I don't plan to either. I'd rather focus on Queen instead ;)



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 10 Sep 09, 14:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I know you mentioned that you heard Roger sing in Champions after hearing the stripped version but I am curious to know why you thought he didn't before hearing it? Is it just because you couldn't make his voice out on the published version? If so does that mean parts of the site are based on opinion rather than fact?


Yara user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 10 Sep 09, 15:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote















Sebastian wrote:







...depending on who the winner is...






:op And whom shall I cheer for so that you add all this to the website? : -))

Thanks for the website, as always. If you ever need help with scores and song transcriptions in general, just tell me and I see what I can do.

SIRGH! Where’s SirGH? He disappears and I have to shout for him. SirGH needs to do some updating there too, though I agree many entries have already achieved the optimum state. Let me tell you, SirGH, as your manager, I think you should foray into new territory while advancing the basic goals of the website. I mean...I miss sound bits. It’s nice to illustrate some points and you as a musician can introduce some slightly technical vocabulary without scaring off the people, you know how to do it. You’re talking about "Death On Two Legs" from X, 78. Suppose you want to illustrate a point: you can add a link to the sound bit which is being referred to in the article. People will benefit from it a lot, even as part of an informal, friendly music education - knowing, through the work of their beloved band, how certain chord patterns sound and so on. It may get people interested in doing music, I don’t know.

The same goes for SEBASTIAN: plenty of sound bits to illustrate the points and a more interactive, with links to parts of songs, illustrating some basic concepts as bridge, middle-eight sections, basic chord progressions.

I don’t accept this argument of "having a life". It’s such a poor excuse! As if people like yourself were allowed to  have a life!

You see, I have wonderful ideas for other people’s websites. Maybe it’s about time for me to create my own and stop annoying website owners with suggestions. :op








Yara
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Posted: 10 Sep 09, 20:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'd just like to say well done to the creator of the website (Sebastian), a lot of work has obviously gone into it!

In my opinion (and in no way can I prove this), it sounds to me like the end 'choir' of All God's People has to be by Freddie, Brian and Roger. I am sure I can hear characteristics of all three of them and it is a big comparison to the first part of the song that clearly contains only Freddie's vocals.

That end 'choir' is one of the few 80s/90s choirs that really harks back to much of their ANATO/ADATR style.


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Posted: 10 Sep 09, 20:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Good stuff!

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Posted: 11 Sep 09, 07:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Too bad your own stubbornness is in the way of listening to some good music, Sebastian ;-)

Anyway, good work with the website.. I've said it over and over again, but it's the truth!



"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



(Genesis 1:1)
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Posted: 11 Sep 09, 08:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Is Seb really serious when he says he has never listened to TCR....
Why in Gods name not?

Regardless of your view on the joint partnership why would you not at least listen to the album? Surely 50% of Old Queen would spark enough interest no?

As John Lennon once sang...Strange days indeed.....


"It is better to sit in silence and have people think you're a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
Yara user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 11 Sep 09, 10:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

No. Come on. Sebastian has a great website. Using this or that line of his post to make personal innuendos or simply to provoke him is not helpful at all. People are entitled to, of course, but I fail to see the point!

Let’s try help him make it as accurate and helpful as possible, because that was his intention when he started the thread. I liked the messages of those who took their time to drop some words of encouragement too, just like Fried Chicken and Rhyeking’s. That was lovely!!!

I’m spreading the "venom", as dear Olivier says. : -))) I tell about Sebastian and SirGH’s websites to all Queen fans I meet out there because I think both websites are not only helpful but very entertaining too. At least to me!

Rock on, guys!









Yara
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Posted: 11 Sep 09, 10:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

> If so does that mean parts of the site are based on opinion rather than fact?

Of course! Unless I've got footage of each song being recorded so I can see who recorded which part and where and using what, I've got to resort to other sorts of sources (including, of course, my own ears).

> plenty of sound bits to illustrate the points and a more interactive, with links to parts of songs, illustrating some basic concepts as bridge, middle-eight sections, basic chord progressions.

Good idea, which may see the light of day sooner or later. I may add my own YT channel someday, and add those bits there. We shall see...

> I don’t accept this argument of "having a life". It’s such a poor excuse!

While I've only got 1% of the free time I used to in 2003, I have a hundred times more motivation and seriousness.

> Maybe it’s about time for me to create my own and stop annoying website owners with suggestions. :op

That's how 'Bechstein Debauchery' started, by the way.

> In my opinion (and in no way can I prove this), it sounds to me like the end 'choir' of All God's People has to be by Freddie, Brian and Roger.

D'you mean 'incredible'? If so, yes: I also think it may be. Got to listen to it carefully and eventually add a (temporary) conclusion.

> Too bad your own stubbornness is in the way of listening to some good music, Sebastian ;-)

It's not about stubbornness. Do you think I'd cover my ears if a song came on the radio, or I'd storm out of a record store featuring TCR, coming back later to blow it up? No - I'm not AGAINST TCR, I simply COULDN'T CARE LESS about it. If someday I'm on the bus and it sounds, I'll listen to it (assuming I haven't got to get off before it finishes).

But, if I get the choice of listening to ANATO and then TCR, I prefer to listen to ANATO twice.

> Is Seb really serious when he says he has never listened to TCR....  Why in Gods name not?

Already explained.

> Regardless of your view on the joint partnership why would you not at least listen to the album?

30 minutes of my life I can use for other things.

> Surely 50% of Old Queen would spark enough interest no?

Not in my case. Again: nothing against their partnership, their musical skills (which are huge, including Paul's) or their marketing strategies. I'm simply not interested in it.

> As John Lennon once sang...Strange days indeed.....

John Lennon is one of the artists I could enjoy listening to in the 30 minutes of my life I'd spend listening to TCR.



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 11 Sep 09, 12:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Sebastian wrote:



> Is Seb really serious when he says he has never listened to TCR....  Why in Gods name not?

Already explained.

> Regardless of your view on the joint partnership why would you not at least listen to the album?

30 minutes of my life I can use for other things.



Me thinks your telling porkies here. There is no way someone as intersted in Queen as yourself hasn't listened to this album even once... NO WAY...

Especailly as you have a gift for explaining the intricacies of Queen material so well and have such a clear passion for the band. (NOT SARCASM).







Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 11 Sep 09, 12:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm interested in Queen music, not in Brian + Paul + Roger. Likewise, I've only listened to 'Mr Bad Guy' once, and to Body Language twice (one of which was drunk so it doesn't count - but I even enjoyed it).



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 11 Sep 09, 12:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I often thought the website existed as some sort of point of reference, as in factual. I think what you have just revealed about parts of it being down to what you interpret with your own ears undermines its usefulness.

As for Seb not hearing TCR. I am 33 years old and bought my first Queen album when I was 10 with all the money I had in the world (Live Magic if you must know) and went on to become a serious collector and am not remotely interested in anything to do with QPR. I heard CLebrity when it was on Al Murray and thats it.  Had they not had called themselves Queen I would have given it a go. I understand their reasons for doing so but think its wrong.


Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 11 Sep 09, 13:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote































mooghead wrote:















I often thought the website existed as some sort of point of reference, as in factual. I think what you have just revealed about parts of it being down to what you interpret with your own ears undermines its usefulness.














A 'factual' web can't exist since even the people who were there make mistakes and misremember stuff. That's precisely why it's important to keep updating and correcting the info whenever new data are discussed or revealed (e.g. Dr May using a different guitar for a Flash's Theme reprise, info that I haven't updated yet BTW).

Oh, and by the way: I haven't 'just revealed about parts of it being down to what (I) interpret with (my) own ears' - AFAIK, it was never a secret.

As for TCR: there's no way I can (or mean to) convince anybody not to listen to it; likewise, there's no way anybody can convince me to listen to it. I think the best is to agree to disagree. Same with NOBY and other stuff. Keep in mind that, for that same reason, I can't (and don't want to) have an opinion about TCR and whether it's good or not - I don't know, and I couldn't care less.

For the World Cup, I suppose I'm supporting England although I'd also like the Netherlands to win at least once.



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 11 Sep 09, 18:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Sebastian wrote:































































mooghead wrote:































I often thought the website existed as some sort of point of reference, as in factual. I think what you have just revealed about parts of it being down to what you interpret with your own ears undermines its usefulness.






























A 'factual' web can't exist since even the people who were there make mistakes and misremember stuff. That's precisely why it's important to keep updating and correcting the info whenever new data are discussed or revealed (e.g. Dr May using a different guitar for a Flash's Theme reprise, info that I haven't updated yet BTW).

Oh, and by the way: I haven't 'just revealed about parts of it being down to what (I) interpret with (my) own ears' - AFAIK, it was never a secret.

As for TCR: there's no way I can (or mean to) convince anybody not to listen to it; likewise, there's no way anybody can convince me to listen to it. I think the best is to agree to disagree. Same with NOBY and other stuff. Keep in mind that, for that same reason, I can't (and don't want to) have an opinion about TCR and whether it's good or not - I don't know, and I couldn't care less.

For the World Cup, I suppose I'm supporting England although I'd also like the Netherlands to win at least once.




His website is wonderful - I'm really confused as to why a simple request for improvements has led to some criticism that isn't well thought out.  One could argue all day about the difference between fact and opinion - also well-informed opinion can reveal interesting facts even if it turns out to be slightly wrong.





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Posted: 11 Sep 09, 19:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The broken links from the debut album (a huge blunder on my side) have been corrected, as well as The Loser in the End. Enjoy!

As for fact vs opinion, I think that, for BD, a datum can only be 100% factual if there's a filmed evidence that 'x' instrument was played by 'x' person during 'x' bit of 'x' song (e.g. John using the Fender Elite on One Vision). And it can only be 100% wrong if there's a filmed evidence that 'x' wasn't used... (e.g. if I claimed John had played a Fender Jazz on One Vision) or if there's any chronological or physical impediment for the claim to be true (e.g. Brian couldn't have played a Korg M1 on Flash because they didn't exist).

Everything else is in some grey (or coloured) area, since, as I said earlier, even a direct claim coming from a person who was there can be totally wrong (e.g. Dr May saying Master-Stroke was done at Wessex), or probably/partially wrong (e.g. David Richards saying Ga Ga was recorded in Munich) or it can contradict others (e.g. the Under Pressure bass-line). While I can't do miracles or provide a 100% error-proof research, what I can (and want to) at least try is to offer a well-organised and well-written research offering:

* Detailed info about who-sang, who-played and who-wrote what.
* Further details than those provided by the liner notes (e.g. 'II' lists John on acoustic guitar, but it doesn't say where).
* Corrections over stuff that was wrong or missing in the original liner notes (e.g. Trident not being mentioned in 'Opera', probably because of their animosity at the time).
* The odd 'scholar' piece of info, sort of tailored to musicians (e.g. intervals, modulations).

It's absolutely NOT a lame 'Queen are gods, all the rest are shite' thing, it's not an offensive 'I hate PR and want to re-write history' crusade, it's not an 'I claim to know everything and this should/shall be your Bible from now on' self-gratification collection and it's not a blog. It does, of course, include the odd (in)direct criticism (e.g. read the first couple of lines in http://sebastian.queenconcerts.com/4-gcompany.htm), the odd (well-deserved IMO) praise to their musical abilities and the odd nod to my own tastes (http://sebastian.queenconcerts.com/9.htm  includes comments about football and the Bee Gees), but they're only secondary and auxiliary.

What 'BD' should become, some day (one day), is a reliable (as much as possible) point of reference for:

* People who want to know more about the songs Queen (i.e. 1970-1991 plus the odd 'MiH' remake) did.
* Musicians (amateurs to experts) who want or need some practical examples of gambits (e.g. the middle-eight in Sail Away Sweet Sister is a gr8 lesson on tension and resolution - and of course singing).
* People who want to make a similar website about other acts (including, of course BM+RT+PR).

Come to think about it, I should add the above lines to my web (in the index). What d'you think?



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.