Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Studio Editing (vocals)

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4 x Vision user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 14 Sep 09, 14:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The BR masters showed me how long and painstaking getting the vocals right was. In a lot of them, Freddie's voice breaks badly, but when he gets it right he truly nails it.

It would (I guess) have been easy to just do a bit at a time and then paste it all together so to speak. Certain songs must have been so difficult to do in one take e.g Somebody To Love for the lead vocal track.

What songs are most likely just snippets added together to make one continous track? Some BR tracks do show that he did have it in him to do it in a one'r, but I'm guessing this wasn't always the case for the finished product.

In your opinion, what songs would have been impossible for Freddie to do straight through, thus had to have been made up of many segments?

The centre track of Play the Game for instance, would that have been a continous vocal track, or would he have sung parts at a time and then "glued it" together lol?


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Posted: 14 Sep 09, 14:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Almost certainly Play the Game, Killer Queen and all the other isolated vocal tracks you have heard are pieced together from various takes. If any track on a song is recorded in one take its not likely to be the vocal. bo rhap (assuming thats what you meant coz BR is also Brighton Rock) is exceptional because it isnt the final published mix that has been leaked its the actual session tape which makes it even more extraordinary.


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Posted: 14 Sep 09, 14:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yeah, I meant Bo rap (forgot about the Brighton Rock ones... plus I never liked brighton Rock, but that's personal taste... not sure if i should say that cos I once said i didn't like It's Late and was nearly massacred lol).

I know it's impossible to answer what I've asked, as nobody knows for sure apart from who was there in the studio, but going by live performances of songs it is probable a little easier to see/hear which songs Freddie could have given a decent bash of doing in one go and which ones would have needed many lines patched together to make it sound continous. That actually asks another question... which songs ARE most likely done in one take???


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Posted: 14 Sep 09, 14:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Question for Adam B... when you did your version of TMLWKY, how much editing went into the final lead vocal???


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Posted: 14 Sep 09, 15:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

" which songs ARE most likely done in one take???"

I would guess short, fairly simple ones like 'Dear Friends' and stuff like that, if any.

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Posted: 14 Sep 09, 15:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Sleeping On The Sidewalk" was done in one take.

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Posted: 14 Sep 09, 16:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

and bohemian, how much takes was to record the music... the final part????


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Posted: 14 Sep 09, 17:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Ok hang on.

First off, Fred's BoRhap vocal is not done in a one-er. If you lay out the entire set of tracks, in the middle you'll have 2-3 vocals that Fred did. At the bottom (Track 15? Can't remember), is a comp'd take of the previous ones with all the best bits, chosen by Fred and the engineer present. Hope that clears that one up.

My cover of TMLWKY? Surprisingly (and I really do mean that), I could've used my first take for the entirety, except for any mistakes made. But, as with any artist (perfectionist?!), they will want certain parts to be, "just so". This is the approach that I, as a singer, take. So, I listened back and thought, I like this and this and this...but I don't like what I did here or what I tried here, etc. etc. So, I kept what I liked and aimed to replace the parts I wanted to do differently, or were plain wrong and needed fixed.

At this point, there are two or three ways it can go, e.g. record little bits at specific points to get what you wanted, record an entire take again to get a 2nd perspective or discard it completely and do it over till you get it right.
Usually, those are the options and, as to which way it will go - It's always different.

For me, that cover was very, very simple. I got my main full take and then had a listen back. The guys upstairs recording me (yup, I was in a completely different part of the house! lol) said it was all good minus the flubbed lines and end part. But me being picky about certain parts, I wanted to re-record them to be... just the way I wanted.

Okay, I thought about this for a bit and decided to post this piano/vocal mixdown which is just the first vocal take. There are differences/mistakes in there, so you'll maybe understand (??) my thinking on this subject. sometimes practical examples give light to this stuff. I dunno..!

http://www.mediafire.com/?oymjzzm4jj3 - Piano and Vox ver (first vocal take ONLY)

Adam.


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Posted: 14 Sep 09, 17:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Adam Baboolal wrote:

Ok hang on.

First off, Fred's BoRhap vocal is not done in a one-er. If you lay out the entire set of tracks, in the middle you'll have 2-3 vocals that Fred did. At the bottom (Track 15? Can't remember), is a comp'd take of the previous ones with all the best bits, chosen by Fred and the engineer present. Hope that clears that one up.

My cover of TMLWKY? Surprisingly (and I really do mean that), I could've used my first take for the entirety, except for any mistakes made. But, as with any artist (perfectionist?!), they will want certain parts to be, "just so". This is the approach that I, as a singer, take. So, I listened back and thought, I like this and this and this...but I don't like what I did here or what I tried here, etc. etc. So, I kept what I liked and aimed to replace the parts I wanted to do differently, or were plain wrong and needed fixed.

At this point, there are two or three ways it can go, e.g. record little bits at specific points to get what you wanted, record an entire take again to get a 2nd perspective or discard it completely and do it over till you get it right.
Usually, those are the options and, as to which way it will go - It's always different.

For me, that cover was very, very simple. I got my main full take and then had a listen back. The guys upstairs recording me (yup, I was in a completely different part of the house! lol) said it was all good minus the flubbed lines and end part. But me being picky about certain parts, I wanted to re-record them to be... just the way I wanted.

Okay, I thought about this for a bit and decided to post this piano/vocal mixdown which is just the first vocal take. There are differences/mistakes in there, so you'll maybe understand (??) my thinking on this subject. sometimes practical examples give light to this stuff. I dunno..!

http://www.mediafire.com/?oymjzzm4jj3 - Piano and Vox ver (first vocal take ONLY)

Adam.






thanks for the boRhap  explanation ;D


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Posted: 14 Sep 09, 23:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sleeping on the Sidewalk has three different voices all by Dr May. Even assuming each had been a first take, you'd still need three takes for the whole song. So it wasn't one take.

Same with DF: even if piano + lead vx had been one take, there are 6+ layers of backing vocals, so, at the very least, that song would've had to be done in seven takes (assuming there were no mistakes or replacements involved).



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 15 Sep 09, 02:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think he meant which songs lead vocal was (or could have been) done in one take.


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Posted: 15 Sep 09, 04:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's really common to record more than one take for the lead vocals and make a comp track of the best bits. I believe the original master didn't have a comp track, cause when they were mixing it for surround the engineer had to listen carefully to the lead vocal to hear which of the parts they used and which not.

These days it's even easier to make a comp track, you just add an extra track to your session and cut the bits you like and copy them to the new track.




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Posted: 15 Sep 09, 08:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Is that how you do it, Fried? I thought in the digital age it was more common to use the Cubase or Pro Tools method, i.e. Cubase = all takes on one track and cuts made to each take.

Adam.

P.s. On a sidenote, you still into doing LML? I think my friends are coming round to the idea. Don't know when, but message your thoughts to me about it.


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Posted: 15 Sep 09, 10:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Adam Baboolal wrote:

Is that how you do it, Fried? I thought in the digital age it was more common to use the Cubase or Pro Tools method, i.e. Cubase = all takes on one track and cuts made to each take.

Adam.

P.s. On a sidenote, you still into doing LML? I think my friends are coming round to the idea. Don't know when, but message your thoughts to me about it.


Yeah, that´s how I do it. I mostly have about 3 or 4 good takes of the defenitive words and melody and then cut up the tracks into segments (mostly 2 lines per segment) and I copy the good parts to a new track. I know you can also put all the takes on one track, you can even record multiple takes via loop recording onto one track. But I think it looks messy, and I really want my multitracks clean.
Also when all the parts are recorded I bounce every track to a full wave file from the start to the end of the project. So every track looks the same.

I like doing this cause parts like overdubbed guitars and backing vocals are very blocky (i.e. not appearing all the time throughout the song) It takes some time to bounce everything, but in the end I think I gain a lot of time because my project looks nice and clean and it's also clean in my head, so my workflow is much better.

I work with Nuendo by the way... you do too, right?


Yeah, I'm still into LML, although I'm horribly busy at the moment. I got a lot of stuff going on, but I'm into doing it, still. We should talk !!



"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



(Genesis 1:1)
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Posted: 15 Sep 09, 13:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Sebastian wrote:

that song would've had to be done in seven takes (assuming there were no mistakes or replacements involved).


The only song I can think of in the 30 seconds I have here right now that the whole vocal for the whole track 'COULD' have been done in one take is Spread Your Wings as its a single vocal track all the way through with no harmonies. Isn't it?






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Posted: 15 Sep 09, 19:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It could have been done yeah (Unless there are some overlapping melodies I forgot) But it's highly unlikely that it is indeed one take. (Let alone a first take)



"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



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Posted: 16 Sep 09, 16:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

No harmonies at all but I, like you, think its unlikely that it is one take. Especially listening to the BBC version which WAS one take and Freddie bottled the high notes.


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Posted: 16 Sep 09, 16:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I remember the doctor commenting that Scandal had both a 1st-take lead vocal and a 1st-take guitar solo. I don't know if it's true or not.

Even if SYW and IOSD had been a 1st-take vocal, and even if such vocal had been recorded simultaneously with the backing track, they still couldn't be one-take songs, since there are at least four electric guitars on each (thus, at least 4 further takes) and, reportedly, John played acoustic on both (so he had to do a further take, at least, after laying down the bass).

One song that could have been, theoretically, a first (or at least only) take for the finished product, is My Melancholy Blues: no overdubs at all.



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 17 Sep 09, 02:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Bijou must've been (if not one take) a very quick effort.  I'm pretty sure that song was done in a day or so?  I don't have the guitar magazine interview on hand.

And this isn't vocals, but I'm pretty sure the TATDOOL solo was one take improv by Brian.  And what a piece of work it is too.


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Posted: 17 Sep 09, 02:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Sebastian wrote:



Even if SYW and IOSD had been a 1st-take vocal, and even if such vocal had been recorded simultaneously with the backing track, they still couldn't be one-take songs, since there are at least four electric guitars on each (thus, at least 4 further takes) and, reportedly, John played acoustic on both (so he had to do a further take, at least, after laying down the bass).


Are you hard of understanding? The thread is about vocals. Lead vocals at that. FULL STOP. Not one take songs.

World We Created could have been one.