Forums > Queen - General Discussion > Made In Heavan vs The 80's Albums

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mike hunt user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Nov 09, 12:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Most would agree that Innuendo was the best Queen album since the great 70's, but where does Made in heavan stack up against the 80's albums?....I think MIH is stronger than every 80's album other than "the game" which is vintage Queen IMO.  how does MIH stack up with the rest of the 80's?....we hear very little about made in heaven, I think it's quite a good album.

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Posted: 13 Nov 09, 15:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Made In Heaven vs 5 albums? It's not fair
I wouldn't call MIN a strong album. I really like it, but mostly because of the nostalgic feeling in it.  It's so calm.
I'd like to underline Mother Love, Let Me Live, Too Much Love Will Kill You.
MIN would win over  Hot Space, but the rest- I doubt.

And I want to mention the 12th track, 'cause it's probably the only track among all Queen songs which made me a bit angry.
Why? So it began playing. Me: "It's instrumental, must be finished soon". But it was going on and on and on. I started either meditating or falling asleep, and here this sound in the middle of the track (which shook my peaceful mind). Hm, not happy with it... :)
Maybe I'm mistaking, but it's Brian's job, isn't it?

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Posted: 13 Nov 09, 15:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

MIH has a place in my heart because that was when I realised how much
of a Queen fan I was. There was plenty of Queen music in our house before
that for years and years (back to the 80's).

For me, it's a special album that really feels good. It has a darker
side because of its circumstances, but it also has the songs that lighten
things. The songs on there rival the tracklistings of some 80's albums,
but I realise that some will not call it a true album. Fair point, but
I would argue that the songs were chosen (written too), recorded and
then arranged in that order. So, that makes it the same as any other
album, except the lead singer was missing once the major work began. A
sad note.

DragonFly, no, it's not Brian's job. That part of the album was something they all added to and David Richards instigated. So, it was arranged by all of them. Not one person's vision.

Adam.


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Posted: 13 Nov 09, 15:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Musically, it's certainly amongst the top Queen albums.  Given what little they had to work with (i.e. no Freddie), it is a fantastic record.  Many songs rank up there with the best Queen songs, like I Was Born To Love You, Heaven For Everyone, and A Winter's Tale.  The Queen treatment of Freddie's solo songs are a breath of fresh air.

Also, the production is phenomenal.  But since it's the most recent Queen album, it only makes sense that it's sonically the best Queen record, as technological possibilities only improve with time.  And it certainly proves that Mercury wasn't the only strong producer in the band, as the production team of May/Taylor/Deacon/Richards brought forth the music in grand style.  But who knows, maybe much of the other band members' knowledge of production was passed down from Mercury.  Only they know..

All the Queen trademarks are there, including stylistic diversity (gospel on Let Me Live, for example).  It's no Sheer Heart Attack or A Night At The Opera, but it's just about the next best thing.  It's certainly just as strong as Innuendo, which most can agree is better than most or even all of their 80s albums.  A fitting end to their career as the four of them.



"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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Posted: 13 Nov 09, 16:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think it's weakest songs are not as weak as any of the really weak songs on the 80's albums (pain is so close to pleasure, party etc) but I disagree about the Hot Space comment - I have always loved it and there was a lack of completely new material on MIH.

Also despite how much I especially admire Freddie, and the circumstances surrounding it, I really don't like A Winter's Tale.  I AM willing to except that the fault lies with me and not the song, but I can't fight the feeling.


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Posted: 13 Nov 09, 17:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It sound like what it is...a bunch of leftovers.
Other than "Let me live" the others songs pale.
As compared to their 80's output, well it's kind of like apples and oranges.
Besides the majority of their 80's output was mostly crap.



Louis

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mike hunt user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Nov 09, 18:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't  think the album has any legendary songs like the 80's did, but it's probably more consistent than albums like the miracle and magic.   The album doesn't have one bad song.

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Posted: 13 Nov 09, 19:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The Queen treatment of the Freddie solo efforts were a real highlight for me, as well as Mother Love. I enjoy the album, however, strictly musically speaking, it isn't one of my top five albums.


It is all random
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Posted: 14 Nov 09, 02:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The only sore point for me is "My Life Has Been Saved".  Honestly, the song was not worth resurrecting.  If only "Self Made Man" had a more complete Freddie contribution, I would've preferred to have heard something done with that.

But it's a marvellous job all round.  "A Winter's Tale" alone is worth the price of entry.


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
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Posted: 14 Nov 09, 05:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think MIH is quite a good album, if taken on its own terms (i.e. ignoring that it's a patchwork). It measures up well against everything released in the '80s, I'd say. I also have to disagree with TS, because I consider "The Game" a sub-par effort.



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Posted: 14 Nov 09, 09:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's a real shame that I'm reading back things about MIH which basically call it "leftovers" and "patchwork". Listen, that's how most of Queen albums were being made at that point in time. The band had always tried to make a backing together, but there were times when it was created by one sole member or by other means in the studio. MIH, the album, really is the same as before. The only thing they lack is Freddie to do alternate takes of stuff. And I also agree, there are obviously going to be songs where the leftovers thing can't be denied, i.e. YDFM or IABD. I mean hey, you could apply that to anything they've recorded and then returned to at a later point. But otherwise, it's all done in a very similar way.

I wonder if the reason it gets these names and jibes is because Freddie was not there for the ideas/production side. I have to agree about the consistent comment. The album surely is very consistent.

Adam.

P.s. IABD was a very clever way of using a Freddie out take.

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Posted: 14 Nov 09, 13:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

> It's a real shame that I'm reading back things about MIH which basically call it "leftovers" and "patchwork".

Because it is. It can be excellent (it is) and still made of (mostly) patchwork and leftovers.

> Listen, that's how most of Queen albums were being made at that point in time.

Not quite: let's compare 'The Miracle' with 'Made in Heaven':

* Party is a song that Freddie, Brian and John wrote during 'The Miracle' sessions, and which (for some reason) was considered good enough for the album.
* Khashoggi's Ship is a song that Freddie, Brian, John and Roger wrote during 'The Miracle' sessions, and which (for some reason) was considered good enough for the album.
* The Miracle is a song Freddie wrote during 'The Miracle' sessions, and which (for some reason) was considered good enough for the album.
* I Want It All is a song Brian wrote during 'The Miracle' sessions, and which (for some reason) was considered good enough for the album.
* Breakthru is a song Roger wrote during 'The Miracle' sessions, and which (for some reason) was considered good enough for the album.
* Invisible Man is a song Roger wrote during 'The Miracle' sessions, and which (for some reason) was considered good enough for the album.
* Rain Must Fall is a song Freddie and John wrote during 'The Miracle' sessions, and which (for some reason) was considered good enough for the album.
* Scandal is a song Brian wrote during 'The Miracle' sessions, and which (for some reason) was considered good enough for the album.
* Was It All Worth It is a song Freddie wrote during 'The Miracle' sessions, and which (for some reason) was considered good enough for the album.

So, regardless of the quality (or lack thereof) showcased throughout the album, 'The Miracle' was not made with leftovers and patchwork.

* It's a Beautiful Day is a song that Freddie wrote in 1980, but was considered unfit for 'The Game' and didn't qualify either to be revisited for 'Flash', 'Hot Space', 'The Works', 'A Kind of Magic', 'The Miracle', 'Innuendo' or Freddie's solo and duet works. Conclusion: leftover. Of course, it doesn't make it bad or mediocre (it's not either), but it IS a leftover.

* Made in Heaven is a song Freddie wrote for his solo career, not for Queen, which was then re-arranged and re-mixed by the three remaining members. Great job? Yes. Great result? Yes. But, it IS a patchwork, as opposed to material done from the debut album up to 'Innuendo' (with occasional exceptions).

* Let Me Live is a song they (whoever 'they' were) wrote at least before 'The Works', and did not qualify for it, neither it was revisited for a release in 'Magic', 'Miracle', 'Innuendo' or solo works. Hence: leftover.

* Mother Love is a song Freddie and Brian wrote after 'Innuendo' and recorded with a clear intention of release. So it's neither leftover nor patchwork.

* My Life Has Been Saved is a song John wrote for 'The Miracle' but wasn't included in the album, and it wasn't rescued for 'Innuendo' either. So: patchwork.

* I Was Born to Love You is a song Freddie wrote for his solo career, not for Queen, which was then re-arranged and re-mixed by the three remaining members. Great job? Yes. Great result? Yes. But, it IS a patchwork, as opposed to material done from the debut album up to 'Innuendo' (with occasional exceptions).

* Heaven for Everyone is a song that'd already been released as a Cross track with Fred on vocals. When Brian, John and Roger made an updated version, they did a great job. But it's still patchwork, no way around it.

* Too Much Love Will Kill You is a song that they hadn't been able to issue with Freddie on vocals prior to it because of the legal situation with the songwriters, etc. As such, it's neither patchwork nor a leftover.

* You Don't Fool Me was barely a song at all. It was turned into what it is through some exceptional work by David and the lads. But, that means it IS patchwork.

* A Winter's Tale is a song Freddie wrote after 'Innuendo' and recorded with a clear intention of release. So it's neither leftover nor patchwork.

So, of course, 'MIH' is great in terms of sound, production, performance, cohesion... but anybody who thinks it's mostly made of 'patchwork' and 'leftovers' is absolutely right. It's more a compilation than an actual album (which doesn't make it bad as a music product).

> The band had always tried to make a backing together, but there were times when it was created by one sole member or by other means in the studio.

Yes, but it's not the same as 'patchwork' or 'leftover'. Making an album out of things previously released (in different versions), things that had been discarded and only a couple of truly 'new' songs is something that hadn't happened before. Rescuing Champions, SHA and ADAD for 'News' is not the same, and still they were a minority.

> MIH, the album, really is the same as before.

As explained previously, it's not.

> The only thing they lack is Freddie to do alternate takes of stuff.

Actually there were alternate takes, cleverly used.

> And I also agree, there are obviously going to be songs where the leftovers thing can't be denied, i.e. YDFM or IABD. I mean hey, you could apply that to anything they've recorded and then returned to at a later point.

Not quite, and even in that case, having All God's People in 'Innuendo' doesn't make it an album of leftovers, since all or most of the rest was conceived after 'The Miracle' and done specifically for the album (or Brian's 'BttL' and then given the Queen treatment but all in pre-production phase anyway).

> But otherwise, it's all done in a very similar way.

It couldn't be more different. Well... it could, but still, it's of course NOT 'a very similar way'.

> I wonder if the reason it gets these names and jibes is because Freddie was not there for the ideas/production side.

Actually he was: a lot of the production side's already done when the tracks are laid down. Things like miking the piano (which FM didn't do per se but was done when he was around), choosing the right vocal tracks (and he sings in all of the 'MIH' tracks except for the ethereal 13) are already part of the production. He wasn't there to pick the order of songs or to move the faders, but he'd already done a lot for the production side.

You can have the best engineers but if the original recordings aren't good enough, there's very little that can be done to enhance the final product. 'Made in Heaven' sounds wonderful, but it's not all because of Roger, John, Brian and David (and Josh, etc). The people who made the original recordings, including Freddie, Mack, the other Queen members again, David Richards again (for My Life Has Been Saved, for instance), Ben, etc. were also crucial for it having the quality it has.



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 14 Nov 09, 13:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

This was the first (and sadly last) Queen studio album that I bought on the release day. Back in 1995 I was 15 years old, and I remember that I really was waiting for the album to be released. It was a great feeling to actually have it in my hand, but also a bit sad, since I knew it would most likely be the last time I actually could get a new Queen album

For me the album was simply stunning back then, and I still hold it really high. Back in 1995 I didnt know that the album contained any re-worked b-sides or Freddie-tracks, so for me it was all new songs. Heaven For Everyone was a blast, and Let Me Live is still one of my fave Queen Songs (and the unreleased version is even better!) . As for LML, I really enjoy hearing a song where Freddie, Roger and Brian sings lead. I think it's a very clever use for few vocals from Freddie that existed. I wish they had done something simular with the New York-demo (found on the FM Box set), it could have been a real blast if Roger or Brian could have added some extra vocal for it.

Todaty I like the album better than most of the 80ies album, althought I would say Innuendo is better.  I still find it stunning that despite Freddies death Brian, Roger and John could close the Queen album circle in a really nice way. Its a damn fine ending.


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Posted: 14 Nov 09, 14:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

All I'll say Seb is:

1. How kind of you being so selective in using The Miracle against my comments referring to no particular 80's album. Mainly because it's widely known that this was a return to basics, a return to the old way of starting off tracks and jams, etc. How kind of you to miss out the other albums which could show otherwise. Thanks for that.

2. Thanks for your reply which I mostly disagree with. I'm not sure I'll try replying to any of it as I have plenty things to do. Maybe my days of arguing huge points in posts are over, I don't know. But I just can't fathom spending time writing a reply about each point made when I could be doing really important things.

3. Lastly, it was a simple reply offering my feeling about the leftovers comment. Don't take it so seriously coz that is one huge post you made.

Adam.


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Posted: 14 Nov 09, 14:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I simply picked 'The Miracle' in a similar way I could've picked any other. Very quickly, we can say that there are no leftovers (i.e. songs that had been recorded for a previous album but hadn't qualified for it) that we know of, same for 'The Works', same for 'Magic' (one song's from the previous year but that's it), same for 'Innuendo' (sans All God's People). 'The Game'... well, some have said Coming Soon began in 'Jazz' sessions, but the remaining 90% of the album is not leftovers. Same for 'Flash'... not an album of leftovers.

I'm not debating that:

* 'MIH' sounds great.
* 'MIH' has wonderful playing.
* 'MIH' has wonderful production.
* 'MIH', regardless of its 'patchwork/leftover' material, is a worth-listening piece of work.
* 'MIH' is consistent.

I am, however, insisting that it IS made from leftovers and patchwork (with some exceptions) and that IS a point worth considering and noting.



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 15 Nov 09, 07:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I absolutely hate the re-hashed songs they did on MIH.  They should of been left as is.


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Posted: 15 Nov 09, 13:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I love some of the songs on MIH, but not all.

The instrumental at the end is really haunting (the hidden track) and doesn't Freddie say 'are you running?' during the middle of it or something? I like that bit...gets me quite emotional! But was there any need for such a long instrumental hidden track? lol. But hey, i'm not complaining. It's Brian's job to play guitar.


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Posted: 15 Nov 09, 13:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Damned synths. It lacks guitar.
It remembers me a bit Shine On You Crazy Diamond.

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Posted: 15 Nov 09, 15:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

i have a soft spot for mih,my wife bought it for me when it was first released,and i actually prefer it to hot space,an album i have never really been able to get into,too many "dance" tracks for me.
i remember buying champions of the world around the same time,i allways tend to think of them as a pair,probebly because they had the same cover!!

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Posted: 16 Nov 09, 01:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



 



Angeline wrote:



I think it's weakest songs are not as weak as any of the really weak songs on the 80's albums (pain is so close to pleasure, party etc) but I disagree about the Hot Space comment - I have always loved it and there was a lack of completely new material on MIH.

Also despite how much I especially admire Freddie, and the circumstances surrounding it, I really don't like A Winter's Tale.  I AM willing to except that the fault lies with me and not the song, but I can't fight the feeling.