Forums > Queen - General Discussion > *Mother Love and A Winter's Tale. How far apart?*

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Posted: 04 Feb 10, 17:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I've just listened to 'Mother Love' again for the first time in ages (and I'm sorry to say, I'm typing this with tears running down my face) and I was wondering if anyone knew the time frame in which this song and 'A Winter's Tale' were recorded? If 'A Winter's Tale' was recorded just two weeks before Freddie died, then this must mean that 'Mother Love' was recorded after this, being his last ever recording and all... Does anyone know exactly when?
Sorry for the morbidity. [img=/images/smiley/msn/sad_smile.gif][/img]

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Posted: 05 Feb 10, 00:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

There are many different versions of the events of mid-late 1991.  I don't think there is any definitive answer.  Maybe that's the way it should be... ?



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Posted: 05 Feb 10, 02:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It depends on who you talk to I guess, and Sir GH has a point. Some say Mother Love was recorded in September 1991, and if you watch any of the Made In Heaven video interviews with David richards, it has the sheet with all the recorded tracks for Mother Love, and it says on there May 1991. Now whether the basic idea was just started back then or if the whole song was recorded then, it's tough to say. But A Winter's Tale was the last song Freddie wrote, and i think that was done in early 1991...maybe springtime, but who knows. I think You don't Fool Me was done around the same time as A Winter's Tale.


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Posted: 05 Feb 10, 03:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote


I read somewhere that Freddie sang on mother love at the beginning of Nov 91 which was why Brian had to finish the song and that Winters Tale was earlier in the year but various websites say different things, all i know is that Freddie flew back from Montreux on the 7th of November

Also his voice sounds much stronger during A Winters Tale although even in Mother Love his voice his strong but very different especially the 1st bit, gives me the chills every time i hear it

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Posted: 05 Feb 10, 05:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

My own personal take is May 91 seems about right as the sheet does say it & it also ties in with the last video Freddie recorded for Days Of Our Lives which would appear Freddie's last activity with the group before he became to ill to work anymore.


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Posted: 05 Feb 10, 07:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote







plumrach wrote:



I read somewhere that Freddie sang on mother love at the beginning of Nov 91 which was why Brian had to finish the song and that Winters Tale was earlier in the year but various websites say different things, all i know is that Freddie flew back from Montreux on the 7th of November



Also his voice sounds much stronger during A Winters Tale although even in Mother Love his voice his strong but very different especially the 1st bit, gives me the chills every time i hear it



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Yeah, this makes the most sense to me. I know that Freddie flew back from Montreux on the 7th of November. So as 'Mother Love' was his last recording, it must have happened in the week prior. The thing that is confusing me though, is that I have read that 'A Winter's Tale' was recorded just TWO WEEKS before his death, so this means that the time line is all wrong, unless it's just a fabrication of events/drama/rumour...?














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Posted: 05 Feb 10, 13:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

According to Peter Freestone's book, he states Freddie flew in from Montreux on November 9th. The reason he was out there was Freddie and Jim wanted to take one last holiday together before they knew that they couldn't. That bit I believe comes from Jim Hutton's book. I don't think his last endeavor out there had anything to do with work.


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Posted: 05 Feb 10, 14:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

First of all, some things to consider:

* Loads of quotes have been misread, misinterpreted and misunderstood. Moreover, there's a lot of 'contamination' involved (e.g. David Richards' RS interview from 1995, the one that's available on the net, is translated from the German edition, which means there could be loads of things lost in the process). The dramatic/commercial factor, whether it was intentional or not, ethic or not, is also affecting the data. For instance, things like a dying Fred asking the others to write anything for him is quite doubtable seeing that the only three post-Innuendo songs (that we know of, that is) were written or co-written by Freddie himself.

* Dr May's neither a senile old fool nor a grumpy manipulative devil, but he's of course not perfect and his memory's far from eidetic (as it's been shown many times in the past) so who knows... when he said (or implied - we should consider the exact words picked and how trustworthy the sources are) Mother Love was the last song Fred sang (or recorded - wording again), he could easily be right (as he's been many times in the past) and he could easily be wrong (as he's been many times in the past). Same for comments coming from David Richards, Phoebe, Roger, John, Josh Macrae, the late Jim Hutton, etc.


Some stuff about the 'May (as in the month, not the doctor)' theory:

* The 'Champions of the World' documentary shows the 21st (or 22nd?) in the Mother Love tracksheet. But it could easily mean the song was started that day, and finished (or about...) much later.


Some stuff about the 'October or early November' theory:

* As Brian was busy with the Seville thing, maybe he didn't know Fred had gone back to Montreux after their last ML session together, which would make plausible that he still thinks he was present during Freddie's last recording moment.

* If Fred was too ill to sing, he could've played keyboards (making ML the last one he SANG but not necessarily the last one he RECORDED).



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Posted: 05 Feb 10, 16:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thank you, Sebastian! Some very interesting points made there, indeed. I had no idea that things had been so 'twisted' (in the non-malicious sense of the word) regarding times of certain events and recordings, etc. And yes, my mistake, it WAS November the 9th that Freddie came back from Montreux, I just checked my Peter Freestone book. Ha.
In terms of vocal quality, it does seem that 'Mother Love' was Freddie's last song (and/or recording) in an almost stark contrast to the quality and delivery of 'A Winter's Tale', although each are very different from each other in regards to tone and subject matter, of course!



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Posted: 05 Feb 10, 23:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I regret not saving all of the interviews I've read on the subject because I did try to piece together a sensible picture of it all at some stage.

When he came off his meds for the last time, I do recall someone saying that he had an 'indian summer' of sorts, and I'll be buggered if Freddie bloody Mercury didn't at least try to record once he got a bit of his strength back...   he was, after all, attempting sessions even when he couldn't stand.

Another thing; who knows if more stuff was recorded but simply wasn't good enough to use?  I say that in reference to the songs themselves as much as Freddie's vocals of course.

The general feeling that I've gotten is that the recording of A Winter's Tale and Mother Love actually overlapped.  It seemed to me that he recorded Mother Love in Montreaux, but that he finished work on Winter's Tale in Metropolis studios sometime afterwards.  If I could only bloody dig up the quotes to back that up ...  

He may not have been recording right into November, but I'm almost certain that he would not have stopped in May.  There is the track sheet to consider but that isn't definitive enough (as Seb says, the date could mean anything).  If he had the strength to stand up under hot lighting and pop out a music video, then he would've been able to continue recording.  How much he recorded, and for how long into 1991, is unfortunately impossible to determine really.

It would be nice if the matter could be settled once and for all someday.  I personally don't feel that anything is taken away from the songs if I suddenly find out that Freddie didn't do them on his deathbed, figuratively speaking ...  I still loved "It's A Beautiful Day" even when I found out that he was a healthy mid-30's guy when he sang it!


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Posted: 06 Feb 10, 07:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Dave Richards Said it was Freddies last vocal so oct/nov is the logical time span.

I remember him saying that freddie wanted to lay down the final vocal which was unlike him as the music usualy came before.


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Posted: 07 Feb 10, 13:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Zebonka12 wrote:

I regret not saving all of the interviews I've read on the subject because I did try to piece together a sensible picture of it all at some stage.

When he came off his meds for the last time, I do recall someone saying that he had an 'indian summer' of sorts, and I'll be buggered if Freddie bloody Mercury didn't at least try to record once he got a bit of his strength back...   he was, after all, attempting sessions even when he couldn't stand.

Another thing; who knows if more stuff was recorded but simply wasn't good enough to use?  I say that in reference to the songs themselves as much as Freddie's vocals of course.

The general feeling that I've gotten is that the recording of A Winter's Tale and Mother Love actually overlapped.  It seemed to me that he recorded Mother Love in Montreaux, but that he finished work on Winter's Tale in Metropolis studios sometime afterwards.  If I could only bloody dig up the quotes to back that up ...  

He may not have been recording right into November, but I'm almost certain that he would not have stopped in May.  There is the track sheet to consider but that isn't definitive enough (as Seb says, the date could mean anything).  If he had the strength to stand up under hot lighting and pop out a music video, then he would've been able to continue recording.  How much he recorded, and for how long into 1991, is unfortunately impossible to determine really.

It would be nice if the matter could be settled once and for all someday.  I personally don't feel that anything is taken away from the songs if I suddenly find out that Freddie didn't do them on his deathbed, figuratively speaking ...  I still loved "It's A Beautiful Day" even when I found out that he was a healthy mid-30's guy when he sang it!


Thanks, Zebonka. I enjoyed reading this, and it would be intriguing to read the interviews in which you got some of this information from! Yeah, I love 'It's A Beautiful Day', too. [img=/images/smiley/msn/regular_smile.gif][/img] It featured on the 'Live At Wembley' DVD backstage documentary, which is the only reason why I know it wasn't recorded on his 'deathbed'! 





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Posted: 07 Feb 10, 13:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



blackshuck03 wrote:

Dave Richards Said it was Freddies last vocal so oct/nov is the logical time span.





I remember him saying that freddie wanted to lay down the final vocal which was unlike him as the music usualy came before.


Ditto, I've read the same...






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Posted: 04 Feb 12, 05:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

A winter s tale (Recorded January-February 1991)
Mother Love (Recorded July-August 1991 and October 1991)


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Posted: 04 Feb 12, 07:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Perhaps GT could clarify this? He has seen all these tracksheets. He just replied similiar question about songs for Game album on official forum yesterday.

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Posted: 22 Feb 12, 10:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

A Winter's Tale was the first thing that Freddie made ??with the band Queen
The last one to me as You dont fool me and Mother Love
Freddie returned back to London three or four weeks before his death
Winter's Tale I guess filmed in winter 1991
You dont fool me I guess the same time as winter tale
Mother Love I guess summer 1991 for allegedly shooting took place in October 1991

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Posted: 22 Feb 12, 11:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

djcamper wrote:
Perhaps GT could clarify this? He has seen all these tracksheets. He just replied similiar question about songs for Game album on official forum yesterday.


Can someone please post a link?


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Posted: 23 Feb 12, 04:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

http://discuss.queenonline.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3522&hilit=GTay&start=15