Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Is the Queen Archivists job being undermined?

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mooghead user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 11 Feb 10, 16:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I have become a little obsessed with all the Queen multitracks and game rips out there giving us all an amazing insight to the actual music they recorded. Would you rather have a Queen song spread over 5 or 6 isolated tracks (or 24 for those that exist) or a crappy version of Hangman recorded 25 years ago? Or a Knebworth track that has never been seen or heard before?

I called Greg a carrot dangler before and I would kill for his job but - the Bo Rhap multitrack (amongst other things) is out there - NOTHING can top that. Even if this final 'product' (cant think of anything else to call it) comes to light I have a feeling I will be fantastically underwhelmed. Other than a video recording of Freddie walking into the room and saying 'Can I sing in your band' I cant think of anything I would rather have.

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Posted: 11 Feb 10, 16:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I bet there's tons of interesting stuff. Even from the earlier albums when tapes were taped over and not much has apparently survived, I'm sure lots of interesting stuff could be made from the mastertapes. I'd love an a capella Nevermore, an instrumental Fairy Feller or a piano-only version of Black Queen. Bring on a deluxe Queen II with a 5.1 mix, the march 1974 rainbow show and a disc with instrumentals, outtakes and rarities anytime. I think that stuff like that is probably a lot more interesting than a track which didn't make it. How many times did we actually listen to stuff like Self Made Man, Robbery or Silver Salmon? They're great for a couple of times, but I can't remember the last time I actually listened to one of those 'rarities'.

Items which apparently exist and which would be in my top "want-to-hear" list:
-  Tracks with alternate lead vocals (Innuendo by Roger, Mother Love by Roger, Days of Our Lives by Roger)
- Alternate version of I'm In Love With My Car, which apparently is the opposite of the released version
- Jam session which inspired Innuendo
- Original demo's for Made In Heaven tracks from 1990/1991
- Queen versions of solo material (Freedom Train, New Dark Ages (maybe?), Love Kills, Man Made Paradise). Do we know if there's any material on Back to the Light which was originally meant for Queen?
- 1992/1993 versions of unreleased tracks, recorded by John and Roger while Brian was on tour in 1992/1993
- 1997 remix of Tie Your Mother Down which was supposed to appear on Queen Rocks but got pulled of in favour for an old track.


mooghead user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 11 Feb 10, 17:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Pim Derks wrote:

I bet there's tons of interesting stuff. Even from the earlier albums when tapes were taped over and not much has apparently survived, I'm sure lots of interesting stuff could be made from the mastertapes. I'd love an a capella Nevermore, an instrumental Fairy Feller or a piano-only version of Black Queen. Bring on a deluxe Queen II with a 5.1 mix, the march 1974 rainbow show and a disc with instrumentals, outtakes and rarities anytime. I think that stuff like that is probably a lot more interesting than a track which didn't make it. How many times did we actually listen to stuff like Self Made Man, Robbery or Silver Salmon? They're great for a couple of times, but I can't remember the last time I actually listened to one of those 'rarities'.

Items which apparently exist and which would be in my top "want-to-hear" list:
-  Tracks with alternate lead vocals (Innuendo by Roger, Mother Love by Roger, Days of Our Lives by Roger)
- Alternate version of I'm In Love With My Car, which apparently is the opposite of the released version
- Jam session which inspired Innuendo
- Original demo's for Made In Heaven tracks from 1990/1991
- Queen versions of solo material (Freedom Train, New Dark Ages (maybe?), Love Kills, Man Made Paradise). Do we know if there's any material on Back to the Light which was originally meant for Queen?
- 1992/1993 versions of unreleased tracks, recorded by John and Roger while Brian was on tour in 1992/1993
- 1997 remix of Tie Your Mother Down which was supposed to appear on Queen Rocks but got pulled of in favour for an old track.


I would still rather have the multitrack of any published Queen recording than any of this stuff. A lot of this is just heresay anyway.

Although a Queen II 5.1 mix would be the ultimate.






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Posted: 11 Feb 10, 18:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Pim  Derks: - Alternate version of I'm In Love With My Car, which apparently is the opposite of the released version

What would that be?

"I Hate the F*cking old Jalopy"?


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 11 Feb 10, 21:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I agree the BoRhap mutlis are the holy grail, but i'd still love to hear some of the alternate takes and unheard stuff too.

Freddie singing the entire "Rock It (Prime Jive)" instead of Roger, for one.  Or some remixes... Brian's updated "High Definition remix" of Teo Torriatte is stunning.  Surely they have digitized backups of SOME of the classics that they could remix.  i'm not talking dubs of You Don't Fool Me kind of remixes, either.  no thanks.  Enhanced replications of the classic tracks we love...

i know we're all just dreaming here, but i want so bad to believe something we fans actually want could be coming someday...


Joseph A. Silvey
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Posted: 11 Feb 10, 21:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



John S Stuart wrote:

Pim  Derks: - Alternate version of I'm In Love With My Car, which apparently is the opposite of the released version

What would that be?

"I Hate the F*cking old Jalopy"?

Actually, it would be 'you hate the...'






John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 12 Feb 10, 05:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



John S Stuart wrote:

Pim  Derks: - Alternate version of I'm In Love With My Car, which apparently is the opposite of the released version

What would that be?

"I Hate the F*cking old Jalopy"?

No idea. A few years back there was an article in the Record Collector which detailed the first 4 or 5 albums, with a sidebar written by Greg talking about stuff in the archives. He mentioned a totally different version of ...Car - but didn't specify any details.





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Posted: 12 Feb 10, 07:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

More stuff that will probably be in the box set:

The Queen versions of "Let Me In (Your Heart Again)" and "I Dream of Christmas".Greg has mentioned that there is a recording of "Innuendo" sung by someone other than Freddie, but he hinted that it's not Roger...Brian May's "The Green Parade".The apocryphal "7-minute BoRhap" might turn out to be real.It's possible that some of the tracks on BTTL exist in demo form as Queen songs. I mean, can you imagine Freddie singing "Driven By You" or "Ressurection"? Holy shit!The original "Let Me Out" demo from the NOTW sessions. The original "Let Me Live" demo with Rod Stewart and Jeff Beck. The original version of "We Are the Champions" with Robbie Williams, that was apparently radically different from the end product. Also, the SHA demo of "We Are the Champions"."Victory"... 

And a whole heap of stuff that we can't even speculate about.

V.



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Posted: 12 Feb 10, 07:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



 



bigV wrote:

It's possible that some of the tracks on BTTL exist in demo form as Queen songs. I mean, can you imagine Freddie singing "Driven By You" or "Ressurection"? Holy shit!



 



Woaaaah ! that´d be wonderful .... and doubtful, though. I´ve always dreamt of an hypothetical Freddie version of "China Belle" too .... just a dream, of course :)

More stuff to be included in the box or in "The Works - definitive edition":

the piano version of "Is This The World We Created"


Bring out the charge of the love brigade
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Posted: 12 Feb 10, 07:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



bigV wrote:

The original version of "We Are the Champions" with Robbie Williams, that was apparently radically different from the end product

Way to ruin the boxset...



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 12 Feb 10, 08:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

All this would be very moving to hear indeed

+ Certainly there are many other wonderful things that we don't know about, and regarding "new" material, consider You Don't Fool Me : with very clever production and some high level Queen musicianship, you can take scattered bits and pieces and turn them into a hit single !

I'm sure there's enough material for two or three more songs like that

With I Guess We're Falling Out, for example, I'm sure there is something to be done

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Posted: 12 Feb 10, 08:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Sebastian wrote:







bigV wrote:



The original version of "We Are the Champions" with Robbie Williams, that was apparently radically different from the end product


Way to ruin the boxset...


I wasn't commenting on the quality of the track, I'm just saying that it's likely to be included in the box. Something else that will probably be included, as mentioned by Brian May, is the different mix of WWRY with Pink, Beyonce and what's-her-name. 


V.







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Posted: 12 Feb 10, 09:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



bigV wrote:

More stuff that will probably be in the box set:

The Queen versions of "Let Me In (Your Heart Again)" and "I Dream of Christmas".Greg has mentioned that there is a recording of "Innuendo" sung by someone other than Freddie, but he hinted that it's not Roger...
Ooh - John's rare acapella vocal take of Innuendo; can't wait for that!!   [img=/images/smiley/msn/teeth_smile.gif][/img]








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Posted: 13 Feb 10, 06:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Just box up a set of vinyl studio albums remastered properly from the analogue masters of the same quality as A Day at the Races millennium edition and I'll pay whatever is on the sticker. This won't ever happen of course, unless a third party is given the rights to do it all properly. Queen Productions should just release a branded empty box, then "fans" can fill it full of whatever junk they've bought over the years. It'll be easier, cheaper, quicker and of similar quality to anything QP will finally release anyway.

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Posted: 13 Feb 10, 10:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As long as the future of EMI is so uncertain I don't expect anything from the Queen archive to appear in whatever form.

But I do not expect a lot from the archive at all.
What was usable they have already taken for "Made in Heaven". I don't believe that there are any great songs or even complete recordings left, otherwise I would not understand why they have reworked Freddie's solo tracks, a Cross recording and a b-side. While all the other few songs seem to have their origin just in fragments from some unfinished demos.

Also I don't like the idea of publishing multitracks and making them available to everyone. The art of a song is not only the composition and the recording of the single tracks. The right mix is also part of the art and belongs to the artist.
I do not like the idea, that everybody can do remixes and stuff and put them on the net or even sell them - as already happened. If people want to mix multitracks they should record their own stuff.   

One of Queen's strength was a very good quality control on their work. And they only finished the songs they regarded as good enough. So a collection of unfinished outtakes of "fillers" is nothing they should do.
There are several examples of exploiting the archives to the bottom end which really damaged the reputation of the artists. 

Sure I would love a "new" Queen album of the original four, but I fear there won't be anything like a "Great lost Queen album". The only real holy grail in the archive are the 70s live recordings.
But in a time of economy crisis and EMI in big trouble I can't see them releasing any "new" stuff.

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Posted: 13 Feb 10, 11:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Soundfreak, just that you aren't interested in outtakes, demos and alternate versions doesn't mean no-one else will. A boxset like this wouldn't be focussed on casual fans who like the original albums. It would be focussed on people who are interested in how the band crafted their songs, how they worked in the studio, what kind of ideas they tried. I don't believe there's a new BoRhap left in the archives - but I'd sure love to hear an new outtake from the band, even though it'll probably be on my playlist a couple of times. The Freddie Mercury Boxset is one of the best items in my collection - but to say that I really listened to all tracks on the box more than once... Seriously doubt it.


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Posted: 13 Feb 10, 12:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Soundfreak, just that you aren't interested in outtakes, demos and alternate versions doesn't mean no-one else will."

You have no idea how much I was....but after having listened to all those tracks like "My secret Fantasy" or "Robbery" there is not a single one that I would call a "discovery". And I think it's unfair to the artist and also to the audience to sell them unfinished stuff or ideas that didn't work. Every artist has good and bad moments and no (dead) artist should fear that his weaker moments are published, it's simply unfair.
It's known that Freddie Mercury was always very careful of his studiorecordings and he left nothing behind. So was this FM Box set somerthing he really would have liked? 

The only alternate tracks so far being a "discovery" is the first "Keep yourself alive" version and some so called "BBC" -versions from "News of the World". But those were finished as they wanted to use them for radio and self promotion.  

I'm also interested in how they did what just to learn from it. It's interesting to find out how many bass tracks were used on BoRap and how many vocal tracks Freddie recorded. A good "Making of" can give you that information, but to publish a multitrack is the end of it all. Once they give it away they lost it forever and have no more control on their work.