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Posted: 18 Feb 10, 16:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

To me It is a great song but I'm surprised that the percussion was done on drum programming. Was the drumming too hard for roger.  


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Posted: 18 Feb 10, 16:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yes

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Posted: 18 Feb 10, 17:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

There's real drums in there, too.

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Posted: 18 Feb 10, 18:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The drumming/percussions where done on the Korg m1 synth, It isnt until 1997 that Roger got the ICLWY beat his own, I believe...


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Posted: 19 Feb 10, 04:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Busy with The Cross maybe....


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Posted: 19 Feb 10, 08:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Nah, brian wasn't happy.  I think only the opening of the song has a drum machine.  the main song has real drums.  I'm sure sebastion knows more and will chime in.

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Posted: 19 Feb 10, 19:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think it is mostly a drum machine, but there are some live drums in there as well, such as fills and the such. But the main of it is a drum machine. Roger did a WAY better job on the '97 retake, and it actually sounds like a real jam!


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Posted: 19 Feb 10, 20:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

A Korg M-1 is NOT a drum machine.  I highly doubt that was used.

But there WERE real drums in the original as well.  It's hard to imitate a gated snare like that, especially in 1991.

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Posted: 20 Feb 10, 06:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The original definitely Roger's real drums in with the computerised drum track that brian put on top.  I don't know, but I'd guess that Brian sampled Roger's take to create the electronic drums part as they mirror each other exactly in places. 

The 1997 retake has the same Roger real drum parts as the original but with the electronics taken off the track, thereby enabling us to hear what Roger is playing

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Posted: 20 Feb 10, 08:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The Korg M-1 isnt a drumcomputer BUT. It HAS a Sequencer, And you can play drums on them and let them loop after 1-2-3-4 etc etc bar..



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Posted: 20 Feb 10, 15:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yes but sequencing was not what it was back then.  They didn't really tap on a few keys and do that, did they?  Even more reason to dislike the Innuendo album.

I always hated Days Of Our Lives because the congas sounded so weak.  I have LP Potatos, I know what good congas are.  I just thought Roger didn't know how to tune 'em.  Now I'm thinking those were M-1 congas tapped in by an engineer.  How depressing.

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Posted: 21 Feb 10, 12:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think Roger did find it difficult. From 1982 onwards most of the songs were either done on Electric Drums, Drum Machine or Drum programming. I think it's lazy for a talented drummer like him to do that, he is the drummer of the group and should not leave it to the other members to do it.

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Posted: 21 Feb 10, 13:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote







qrock wrote:



I think Roger did find it difficult. From 1982 onwards most of the songs were either done on Electric Drums, Drum Machine or Drum programming.


I don't mean to 'pick on you', but the use of the word 'most' caught my attention. TBH, I'm not sure about whether it's right or wrong, so let's count:

HOT SPACE:

SP - Linn (mostly)
Dancer - Linn (intro and verse), acoustic (choruses and solo)
Back Chat - e-Drums + Linn (mostly)
Body Language - Linn (mostly - compare it with live versions to notice the difference)
Action - Linn + Simmons + acoustic (choruses mostly)
PotF - Acoustic
Life Is Real - Ditto
Calling All Girls - Ditto
Las Palabras - Ditto
Cool Cat - Ditto
Under Pressure - Ditto

As you can see, the first half of the album's got mostly machines and e-drums with little to no acoustic ones. But six songs are done with acoustic drums. So: most songs done on e-drums, machines or programming? No.

THE WORKS:

Radio Ga Ga - Linn + Simmons, mostly.
Tear It Up - Acoustic, mostly (at least)
It's a Hard Life - Acoustic
Man on the Prowl - Acoustic
Machines - Linn + Simmons + acoustic
Break Free - A bit of both, probably
Keep Passing the Open Windows - Acoustic, mostly (at least)
Hammer to Fall - Acoustic

So, eight songs in the album have drums, off which six (75%) are synth-, computer- and machine-free. Most songs done on e-drums, machines or programming? No.

A KIND OF MAGIC:

One Vision - A bit of e- and programming, but mostly acoustic.
A Kind of Magic - Ditto
One Year of Love - Ditto
PisCtP - A bit more programmed than played
FWBF - Acoustic
WwtLF - Mostly acoustic, but Rog didn't play them anyway...
GtP - Acoustic
DLYH - Acoustic
PotU - Acoustic

Nine songs with drums, one played by whoever was the percussionist in the orchestra, four (half) are totally (or mostly) acoustic. Most songs done on e-drums, machines or programming? No.

THE MIRACLE:

Party - Mostly programmed, indeed.
Khashoggi's Ship - Acoustic.
The Miracle - Acoustic.
I Want It All - Acoustic, with a bit of programming in the middle (demo version surviving, I reckon).
Invisible Man - Acoustic, surprisingly enough, but as Fred allegedly said, Rog's better than a machine.
Breakthru - Acoustic, and very well played.
Rain Must Fall - Some programming and some e-drums (which are actually played as well as acoustic so they need skills)
Scandal - Totally acoustic
My Baby Does Me - Mostly programmed
Was It All Worth It - Totally acoustic

Ten songs, seven of which (70%) are entirely or almost entirely acoustic. So: most songs done on e-drums, machines or programming? No.

INNUENDO:

Innuendo - Totally acoustic except perhaps for the orchestral bit (which hasn't got drums per se but percussion).
Slightly Mad - A bit of both, but the pattern's indeed acoustic (most likely looped a la Bites the Dust).
Headlong - Mostly acoustic, though some bits of Brian's programming survive.
I Can't Live With You - Programmed on an Apple Mac and then run through the M1 drum section. Little to no acoustic.
Don't Try So Hard - Totally acoustic.
Ride the Wild Wind - The main part's acoustic, surprisingly enough.
All God's People - A bit of both. I suspect Mike, and not Fred, programmed most of them.
Days of Our Lives - Mostly programmed including the congas (courtesy of the producer, reportedly).
Delilah - Mostly programmed.
Hitman - Acoustic except for some bit in the middle which is programmed (probably a demo thing surviving again).
Show Must Go On - Totally acoustic.

Eleven songs with drums, seven of which (63.64%, rounded from a recurring decimal) are mostly or completely acoustic. So: most songs done on e-drums, machines or programming? No.

MADE IN HEAVEN:

Beautiful Day (including reprise) - Acoustic, mostly (at least)
Made in Heaven - Ditto.
Let Me Live - Acoustic.
Mother Love - A bit of both, mostly programmed at the beginning.
My Life Has Been Saved - Acoustic.
I Was Born to Love You - Acoustic, and very well-played and underrated.
Heaven for Everyone - A bit of both.
Too Much Love - Acoustic, not his best moment IMO but not bad at all.
You Don't Fool Me - The main pattern's acoustic, the shaker and other things are probably sampled and/or programmed.ç
A Winter's Tale - A bit of both.

So: ten compositions, off which seven are mostly acoustic. So: most songs done on e-drums, machines or programming? No.

Conclusion: were most songs done on e-drums, machines or programming?

For Hot Space - No.
For The Works - No.
For Magic - No.
For Miracle - No.
For Innuendo - No.
For Made in Heaven - No.

There you have it.



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 21 Feb 10, 15:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hate to break it to you Sebastian, but IWIA is all acoustic drums, however mostly processed through drum trigger pads (the toms, snare and bass drum). Have a listen to the 16-track multis from Guitar Hero (or whatever game it was on), especially the overhead mikes - you'll definitely notice then those fast bits are TOO humanly played to be programmed.

If you can't hear the difference, then clearly you've no experience working with recording drums in the studio - and also lacking knowledge of various studio trickery like compressors, gaters, and samplers (which drum triggers come into play here).

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Posted: 21 Feb 10, 15:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Also, I'm pretty damned sure the drums for IWBTLY (1997 Rocks 'Re-take') were completely redone live for that remake. The sound on those drums are more consistent with the NOBY drums than the 1989/1991 acoustic drum sounds.

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Posted: 21 Feb 10, 16:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Inu: When possible, I'll hear to the Guitar Hero things you mention. But it doesn't change the big picture, which is:

Were most songs done with e-drums, computer, synths, programming, midi et al? No.



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 22 Feb 10, 02:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Sebastian wrote:

Inu: When possible, I'll hear to the Guitar Hero things you mention. But it doesn't change the big picture, which is:

Were most songs done with e-drums, computer, synths, programming, midi et al? No.

Right. That much, I can't disagree with.


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Posted: 22 Feb 10, 05:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Why would Roger be able to drum stuff like Now I'm Here, Brighton Rock and Prophet's Song. Which have really odd drum stuff going on, and not being able to play I Can't Live With You?

Knowing Queen it wasn't a matter of laziness but probably an esthetic reason.
Also, in those days the Queen guys had some equipment at home and were able to record their own demo's. Some of the drum/percussion tracks made for their demo tracks were used later on the album cut. (Overdubbed by acoustic drums, if necessary)



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Posted: 22 Feb 10, 09:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote







FriedChicken wrote:



Why would Roger be able to drum stuff like Now I'm Here, Brighton Rock and Prophet's Song. Which have really odd drum stuff going on, and not being able to play I Can't Live With You?


It's not always a matter of difficulty: Staying Power is a hell of a lot more difficult to sing than '39 (lead vocals, that is), and Freddie surely did a way better job on the former than Brian ever could if he tried (even if he hit the same notes); however, on the latter, Fred's voice is good, but not as good as the doctor's. There are also many people who can play guitar way better than Freddie, and who can play way more difficult things than CLTCL but when doing that song, for some reason, they don't quite cut the mustard (IMO, Brian amongst them).

Same case here: AFAIK, Roger's attempts to reproduce what Brian had programmed didn't please the composer as they, allegedly, didn't have the correct 'feeling'. It's not a matter of 'if he could play Brighton Rock et al., then he could also play ICLWY', but a matter of 'every song is different and every case is different.'

Remember that Einstein had problems putting on his socks (or something like that), which is way easier than coming up with relativity.



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 23 Feb 10, 20:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



inu-liger wrote:

Also, I'm pretty damned sure the drums for IWBTLY (1997 Rocks 'Re-take') were completely redone live for that remake. The sound on those drums are more consistent with the NOBY drums than the 1989/1991 acoustic drum sounds.



I didn't know I Was Born To Love You had a '97 rocks retake as well. ;-) hehehe






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