Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Hangman - everything we know about the song...

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theCro user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 23 Mar 10, 21:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

ok fellows... i wanted to open this thread to clarify some things. first of, i'd like to know what do you think, DOES studio version of Hangman really exist or it's just a hoax... we all heard live version. but to me, if they didn't record studio version, or demo of it, it would be pointless, since they recorded Liar and all songs they did. They made demo and studio versions of those early songs...

Questions are:

Do you think studio version of Hangman exist or no?
Did anyone from these Forums EVER hear snippet of full version (studio or demo) of Hangman?
Also i'd like to know if Brian or anyone from the band EVER said that studio/demo version of Hangman exist or does not exitst...

Please, explain your answers. Let's not ruin this topic..


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Posted: 24 Mar 10, 02:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote







theCro wrote:



ok fellows... i wanted to open this thread to clarify some things. first of, i'd like to know what do you think, DOES studio version of Hangman really exist or it's just a hoax... we all heard live version. but to me, if they didn't record studio version, or demo of it, it would be pointless, since they recorded Liar and all songs they did. They made demo and studio versions of those early songs...

Questions are:

Do you think studio version of Hangman exist or no?
Did anyone from these Forums EVER hear snippet of full version (studio or demo) of Hangman?
Also i'd like to know if Brian or anyone from the band EVER said that studio/demo version of Hangman exist or does not exitst...

Please, explain your answers. Let's not ruin this topic..


1. Yes, a studio version of Hangman exists. It's not an "up for debate" thing; it's a fact.

2. There is a member on this forum who has not only heard the studio version of Hangman, he owns it.

3. I don't know. I'm sure it's not a "Polar Bear" situation where Brian doesn't even remember that the song exists, as "Hangman" was a live staple early on, and in many ways was the earliest incarnation of the song structure that would become BoRhap. The guys from the band probably all remember the song well. Do they remember recording it? Well, to put it lightly, I'm sure they recorded a lot of things during those earliest sessions that they don't remember anymore.







"Do you think I should keep this mustache? Did you say no? F--- off."
Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 24 Mar 10, 03:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Since Brian didn't remember having done It's Late on stage, he may (no pun intended) have forgotten about recording Hangman as well.



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 24 Mar 10, 15:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Theoretically, an audio file (with some sort of watermark such as Greg's 'property of Queen productions') could be incontestable proof as well.

Just to be clear, I'm trying to stay neutral here: John's claimed he owns a copy and (rightfully) remarked he's got no obligation to give it to other people (including QP themselves, unless of course he wants to but it's his prerogative). As I still haven't seen it or heard it (and probably never will), I don't regard it as 'facatual' information ... yet. It seems that other people have coincidentally remained in a similar stance.

Other people consider John's word enough to regard it as a 100% fact. Good for them and I completely understand such decision as John's never proven to have lied here. And other people think John may be lying, especially those who think of GB as some sort of deity. As I've never been fond of the bloke myself (GB, that is), I can't be unbiased.



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 24 Mar 10, 17:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hi John Stuart,

Could you be so kind as to enlighten us on a few points about your Hangman acetate? I would love to hear a studio version of Hangman which given that QP haven't even got a copy must surely make it the rarest gem in the treasure box of unreleased Queen material.

1. Have you played this acetate and does it contain a studio version of Hangman?
2. If so, can you remember which of the live versions it is closest to it - musically and lyrically?
3. Is there anything else about the recording that you remember and can tease us about?
4. What condition is the acetate in? Is it made from wax like most of these things?
5. Have you had the acetate professionally or otherwise transferred to a digital medium?

This last point is important because it protects the recording against theft or accident and safe guards it for the future. It must be difficult to trust someone with the acetate long enough to transfer it given it's delicate state. Perhaps we could start up a trust of some sort where a group can provide advice and help fund the acetate's safe transfer to a digital medium in a safe and professional environment. I think there's a lot of people who have an interest in the well being of the only known studio recording of Hangman especially as it is in such a delicate state.

Anyway John it would be great to hear your reply.

Thank you.







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Posted: 24 Mar 10, 17:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Like anyone is going to pay money for a fund to save a track which they might never hear ;)


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Posted: 24 Mar 10, 17:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Pim Derks wrote:

Like anyone is going to pay money for a fund to save a track which they might never hear ;)

Perhaps if it's transferred digitally, there might come a time when people are able to hear it?







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Posted: 24 Mar 10, 17:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The source for an acetate is a tape, so I'm convinced that this acetate isn't the only existing recording of this track - if it really exists at all.
But I do not expect it to be a kind of "holy grail" recording at all, otherwise it would have been released at some point like "Mad the Swine". Or the alternate "Kind of Magic".
And although it's exciting to hear live recordings of "Hangman" it's obvious that it's not  their most inspired song....

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Posted: 25 Mar 10, 00:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Soundfreak wrote:

The source for an acetate is a tape, so I'm convinced that this acetate isn't the only existing recording of this track - if it really exists at all.
But I do not expect it to be a kind of "holy grail" recording at all, otherwise it would have been released at some point like "Mad the Swine". Or the alternate "Kind of Magic".
And although it's exciting to hear live recordings of "Hangman" it's obvious that it's not  their most inspired song....

      agreed on all counts...








Joseph A. Silvey
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Posted: 25 Mar 10, 01:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

No Queen Productions don't have the Hangman studio recording in their archives - that's why they can't release it like Mad the Swine.


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Posted: 25 Mar 10, 05:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



vicspec wrote:

No Queen Productions don't have the Hangman studio recording in their archives - that's why they can't release it like Mad the Swine.

...and members of the band even said they never ever recorded that song.

So "this is a tricky situation"....







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Posted: 25 Mar 10, 05:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Soundfreak wrote:







vicspec wrote:



No Queen Productions don't have the Hangman studio recording in their archives - that's why they can't release it like Mad the Swine.


...and members of the band even said they never ever recorded that song.

So "this is a tricky situation"....



Exactly. The same "members " claimed that they never recorded a Queen version of Polar Bear.

I have a question - do you remember what have you exactly done 37 years ago ?





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Posted: 25 Mar 10, 06:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



theCro wrote:



Do you think studio version of Hangman exist or no?


Yes, it does.


Did anyone from these Forums EVER hear snippet of full version (studio or demo) of Hangman?


Yes, he did.


Also i'd like to know if Brian or anyone from the band EVER said that studio/demo version of Hangman exist or does not exitst...


No, as far as I know only Greg claimed he haven't found it in the archives.











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Posted: 25 Mar 10, 07:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



 



pittrek wrote:



 



 



 



 



Soundfreak wrote:



 



 



 



 



 



 



 



 



 



 



vicspec wrote:



 



 



 



No Queen Productions don't have the Hangman studio recording in their archives - that's why they can't release it like Mad the Swine.



 



 



 


...and members of the band even said they never ever recorded that song.

So "this is a tricky situation"....



Exactly. The same "members " claimed that they never recorded a Queen version of Polar Bear.

I have a question - do you remember what have you exactly done 37 years ago ?




As I said...it's tricky. I would never blame them, if they have forgotten about some recording or details as there is so much they have done.
It's a fan-thing to be precise about every detail of the past, while the artists themselves are more thinking about the next project.... 

Anyway...the tricky situation remains. 

QP says, there is no "Hangman" in their archives, Queen say they never did a studio recording (which would be underlined by the always varying live-versions) 

And on the other side there is one private person claiming to own this recording - but can not or does not want to prove it. 

What next?
 


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Posted: 25 Mar 10, 08:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think the existance of a Hangman studio version is still debateable.
The only account we have is John Stuart saying he has it on an acetate.

On the other hand, we have Brian and Greg Brooks saying it wasn't recorded.

In a scientific study 1 eyewitness isn't proof at all. So i'd say the same thing for a Hangman acetate. I'm not calling John a liar. But still, even if it's a reliable source, 1 witness is worth nothing at all.



"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



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Posted: 25 Mar 10, 08:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I repeat - Brian and Greg claimed that Polar Bear wasn't recorded by Queen and other bull...


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Posted: 25 Mar 10, 08:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote


I strongly believe the studio version exists and John has always said the truth. Would be silly from his side lying about this issue at this stage. Sooner or later he´ll bless all of us with a little snippet ... and many mouths will shut up.

QP claims they don´t have it? ok, we know who does.

The band doesn´t remember? ok, as many other times ... and it´s been proven they were wrong.


Bring out the charge of the love brigade
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Posted: 25 Mar 10, 10:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote


Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions
Property of Queen Productions


;)


Queen rocks!
John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 25 Mar 10, 13:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I have answered this many times.
I have even written an audio description based on the "version" I own.
I know that this info was previously published in Queenzone a few years back when the same issues arose back then.
This info is all public record so I can't be ars*d repeating it now.
(No direspect but if any kind soul could look this info out - it would save me the job).

What I do not understand is - that all of my recordings have ended up in the public domain.
Without me, many of the rarites so taken for granted by all - would not be out there.
I have never recieved a "thank-you" or a bye your leave.

In all the articles I have ever written - which have been plagiarised both in print and all over the 'net - never once (apart from Georg) have I recieved an acknowledgement.

If I print a picture of the acetate it's forged. If I upload a sound sample - it's not FLAC.

Now, I am no saint, and I will come down from my cross in a minute, but I have done so much for the Queen community - and all I have ever received in return is "take, take, take, take, take...". (have only on very rare occassins ever been on the returning end - so thanks to those who have supported me).

This is my one last "family Jewel" so sorry - after this thread - no more from me on Hangman.
After all. I have never forced anyout to out their "Victory" or "Face It Alone" so why should I be pressurised - but not them?

Finally, I believe it is all a blind.
I personally believe "Hangman" is in the vaults, and it will be "released" - if Queen PL decided to do so.
That is not my call.
I do not know of any Queen studio track which exists as a solitary copy. Even Freddie's home demos were duplicated, so I can not see how a studio production would be overlooked.


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 25 Mar 10, 13:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

TBF, AFAIK, GB hasn't claimed they never recorded it. He's claimed it doesn't exist in the archives and he's claimed he thinks the chances of it actually existing are slim, based on the fact that the person who says he owns a copy can't/won't/shan't/wouldn't provide evidence (a fact I'm not criticising as it's John's decision). But he (GB) has acknowledged that some things they (QP) don't have, have surfaced, so it's still open.

Regarding John's claim: I'm with Niek here. I haven't got any reason not to believe him, but it wouldn't be fair to claim (in my website, for instance) there's a studio version based only in his word. So, as another poster (who probably wouldn't want to be paraphrased by me but still) said, 'absence of evidence's not evidence of absence.' By the way, I don't think it applies to every case, but it does to this one.

About what Dr May said... he also said that ________ (fill the blank with any of his famous memory slips).



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.