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Mr Mercury user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 08 Apr 10, 12:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Digital economy bill becomes law

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/elections/news/article/digital-economy-bill-becomes-law/19708901

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100408/tuk-illegal-downloaders-face-life-intern-45dbed5.html


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Posted: 08 Apr 10, 13:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

crikey,there's hardly anyone on this site these days as it is without the last few dodgy pirates [not me,good pirate like Mr Depp] being switched off at the mains :-p


isnt innuendo an italian suppository?

im gonna ride the wild wind!

its_a_hard_life wrote:you nutcase you rule!

joxer replies: but in a nice way :-]

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Posted: 08 Apr 10, 20:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote


Good.

People should buy the physical albums and singles, anyways.


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Posted: 09 Apr 10, 01:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote















Blue Roses Unlimited wrote:











Good.

People should buy the physical albums and singles, anyways.


Why, to support the bean-counters at record labels?

The artists see very little of that money, you know.

Even if they did, how is downloading an album any different from borrowing a book from the library?



"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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Posted: 09 Apr 10, 01:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I love a good bit of illegal downloading.  The thing is, when money comes my way, I also love buying physical product.  Not because of morality, but practicality - hard drives are unreliable, burnt media are unreliable.  If I take care of pressed CDs or DVDs, they'll last longer.  I'm old fashioned for it, but I am a fan of buying things.


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Posted: 09 Apr 10, 11:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Zebonka12 wrote:

burnt media are unreliable

Not if they're made in Japan.. :-)



"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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Posted: 10 Apr 10, 17:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Sir GH wrote:



 



 



 



 



 



 



 



Blue Roses Unlimited wrote:



 



 



 



 



 



Good.

People should buy the physical albums and singles, anyways.



 


Why, to support the bean-counters at record labels?

The artists see very little of that money, you know.

Even if they did, how is downloading an album any different from borrowing a book from the library?

The book is returned to the library.  The downloaded music is not returned and usually not deleted.

It is a pity that attitudes have deteiorated to a third world level, and intellectual property rights are no longer respected.








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Posted: 11 Apr 10, 18:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Now now Mooghead - that is still theft....

:)


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But as soon as I step in dog shit, I can moonwalk better than Michael Jackson."
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Posted: 11 Apr 10, 23:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Panchgani wrote:

Sir GH wrote:

Even if they did, how is downloading an album any different from borrowing a book from the library?
The book is returned to the library.  The downloaded music is not returned and usually not deleted.

It is a pity that attitudes have deteiorated to a third world level, and intellectual property rights are no longer respected.
The average artist with a major label deal makes about $2 from each record sale.  The store makes a few bucks, and the label pockets the rest.  This has nothing to do with intellectual property.  People have recorded songs off the radio to cassettes for years.  This is just the next step.

Those who seek new music have never had a greater variety of music to select from.  Downloading music is the best way for new artists to gain popularity.  Then you go to the concert and buy the merchandise.  The artist makes much more money that way.  Without downloading, plenty of artists would never be heard.

It's time to move into the 21st century.  If record labels are losing money, it's their own fault because of their outdated business plans.  A substantial portion of the population does not want to pay $20 for a CD.  With their last album, Radiohead has set the standard for how to release music - pay what you think the music is worth.  It still made millions.


"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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Posted: 11 Apr 10, 23:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

(double post)

The forum is really acting up these days..


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Posted: 12 Apr 10, 04:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: crikey,there's hardly anyone on this site these days as it is without the last few dodgy pirates [not me,good pirate like Mr Depp] being switched off at the mains :-p

Yeah, I've been having a tough time getting around this Lifetime Internet Ban.  But I stole a bunch of laptops from an underprivlidged school for handicapped children, and I'm back.  Anybody want some free songs?

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Posted: 15 Apr 10, 12:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH wrote:

Even if they did, how is downloading an album any different from borrowing a book from the library?
The book is returned to the library.  The downloaded music is not returned and usually not deleted.

It is a pity that attitudes have deteiorated to a third world level, and intellectual property rights are no longer respected.
The average artist with a major label deal makes about $2 from each record sale.  The store makes a few bucks, and the label pockets the rest.  This has nothing to do with intellectual property.  People have recorded songs off the radio to cassettes for years.  This is just the next step.

Those who seek new music have never had a greater variety of music to select from.  Downloading music is the best way for new artists to gain popularity.  Then you go to the concert and buy the merchandise.  The artist makes much more money that way.  Without downloading, plenty of artists would never be heard.

It's time to move into the 21st century.  If record labels are losing money, it's their own fault because of their outdated business plans.  A substantial portion of the population does not want to pay $20 for a CD.  With their last album, Radiohead has set the standard for how to release music - pay what you think the music is worth.  It still made millions.

Here here!

I think some people are being driven to illegal downloading because of the record labels - releasing an album, then re-releasing at the end of the tour with bonus tracks/DVDs, bands re-releasing old albums with maybe one or two new songs/demos, better sounding versions being released overseas etc. It's so easy for the record labels to blame their poor results on illegal downloads and its not all of the problem.

People are saying Spotify is the way forward, but what's to stop you recording off Spotify straight onto your hard drive?


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Posted: 21 Apr 10, 10:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I wouldn't buy most (if not ALL) albums I've downloaded.

I usually don't have lots of spare money, and when I do, I have other priorities - so, they definitely didn't waste the chance of earning my money as I downloaded their albums.

---

I've never bought any Franz Ferdinand album in my life. I got to know them when a friend sent me a few songs, and then I downloaded their albums for free. After a while, their third album came out, I downloaded it and a folder full of b-sides and other "rare" tracks. I didn't pay anything at all for their music.
Then they came to Brazil and I paid for a ticket probably more than they would've made if I had bought their 3 albums.


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Posted: 22 Apr 10, 02:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's amazing how the music industry keeps telling us how they lose so much money to downloading when in fact they sell more than ever before:

http://www.bpi.co.uk/press-area/news-amp3b-press-release/article/2009-is-record-year-for-uk-singles-sales.aspx

It's obvious that people download music illegally because it's easy to do and the record companies protect their interests by offering legal downloads - which is the best way to do imo. For years they persecuted services like Napster or emule but over the time they learnt that it's better to provide an alternative to the illegal downloads. Like any other business it's the job of the industry to come up with up-to-date sales methods and not to run to the legislation and ask for censorship and special laws to protect their interests. As a customer and a citizen I am appalled by such laws which serve to establish censorship tools rather than to stop the  illegal distribution of copyrighted material. The worst thing about the above quoted article is that MPs complain they had no time to actually debate the law in Parliament. They should not have let the law pass - it's only the MPs themselves who can protect their independence and not become servants to the industry against their own people.


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Posted: 22 Apr 10, 13:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

YourValentine wrote: "It's amazing how the music industry keeps telling us how they lose so much money to downloading when in fact they sell more than ever before"

Indeed.  And here's another link showing how sales are up in Canada too.  CD sales are down, but digital sales and vinyl sales are up.  Excellent article overall about "record store day" !!

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/music/story/2010/04/17/record-store-day.html


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Posted: 23 Apr 10, 23:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'll chime in here. I have never paid for a Green Day album in my life (although I did buy a few American Idiot singles on iTunes back in the day). I have never paid for a Muse album in my life.

That said, I just received my two tickets to a Green Day concert this summer. Each (bargain-priced) ticket cost more than an album, and the percentage of that money the artist sees is significantly higher. Not to mention that my wife and I always, always buy the overpriced t-shirts at concerts. We spent $70 for two Q+PR shirts and another $70 for two Nine Inch Nails "Wave Goodbye" shirts. I don't doubt we'll spend $70 on two Green Day shirts, but I'm such a fan of Green Day that I'll probably drop even more on other merchandise there. The band keeps virtually all of that money.

Tomorrow morning, Muse tickets go on sale. Am I buying two tickets to the Muse concert? Hellz yes. And I'm not going $20 lawn tickets there--we're going to be as close to the stage as is humanly possible for Muse. Each ticket will probably cost more than three albums. When there, we're probably going to drop in excess of $150 on multiple t-shirts and other merchandise, because my wife and I agree that Muse is the best band out there right now.

Now, if it weren't for illegal downloading, would I be going to either of these concerts? Green Day, who knows? They've been getting radio airplay for years; I've just never gotten around to seeing them live. I probably would have eventually anyway. Muse? Definitely not. I'd probably never have heard of them if not for BitTorrent.

So, you tell me. Who does illegal downloading hurt? Does it hurt the artists by exposing them to fans who will go spend money at their concerts by taking a few tenths of a cent per album sold out of their pockets? No, not really. It hurts the recording company executives, who take home 75-plus cents of every dollar earned on record sales, which is why the high-powered lawyers are all over it.


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Posted: 24 Apr 10, 07:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Of course illegal downloads hurt the artists! If we all acted like you there would not be any Muse or Green Day albums for you to grab for free. Before any artists can sell out a concert they must release their music to get a name. If we all stole albums there would not be any incentive for the business to release anything. Not to mention to give a promising artist a second chance when the first album does not hit the charts.  Of course the artists try to make up for album sales by selling high priced concert tickets and merchandise but the merchandise won't give a single new artist a chance to try out something new. I am not in favour of illegal downloads, I am just against legislation making special laws which allow them to censor website content under the pretense of protecting the music industry when in fact the music industry took years to understand the risks and chances of the internet and did not create new sales outlets.


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Posted: 24 Apr 10, 12:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

YourValentine wrote:

"Of course illegal downloads hurt the artists! If we all acted like you there would not be any Muse or Green Day albums for you to grab for free. Before any artists can sell out a concert they must release their music to get a name. If we all stole albums there would not be any incentive for the business to release anything."

And what would be wrong with that?  In these days of myspace and satellite radio, you don't need a record deal to make yourself known.  If all the major record labels imploded, music wouldn't die with them.  The only people who would lose out would be the bean-counting executives.  The percentage of people finding music aside from mainstream radio is growing by the day.

If you're an artist signed to a major label, you get pennies of every record sale - not even a dollar.  The label used to be able to blackmail the artist like this, saying how they get exposure in exchange for not seeing the record sale revenue.  But nowadays, there are many more ways to market and gain notoriety.  If the major labels refuse to change their business plan, it will eventually be their demise.  The majority of people will see the light.


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Posted: 24 Apr 10, 12:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

People who blame the record companies for illegal downloading are just looking for some nice way to get rid of the responsibility. But people don't download because the record companies are evil, they download because the Internet has made stealing so easy. Blaming "greedy" record companies, too high CD prices etc. is just a stupid excuse.

It is an odd situation how these days the average folks seem to be deciding on behalf of the artists what is good for them. They say "oh, but the artist only gets 2 dollars of that CD, the evil record company gets the rest" and so on but it is not our job to decide whether that situation is good for the artists. The artists decide that themselves, and they do not want their albums to be stolen; they are quite happy with the work that record companies do and many musicians have become millionaires because people bought their albums.

People also say how bands find new audience when people download, how the musicians benefit from the easy exposure, but they don't realise that those bands wouldn't even exist if everybody downloaded and there was no record companies. When you download you are essentially shooting yourself in the leg because there is less chance of good new bands coming up in the future. If you can't make a living by being a musician you won't be making music and there will be no new Muse or Green Day or whoever. Yes they make money now by touring too, but you can't sell out tours if you aren't already a quite famous band. And by the way concerts wouldn't cost so goddamn much these days if the bands didn't need to get that extra buck with touring that they lose when people steal the album.

Radiohead was able to give away their album for free and still make money from it because they were already a very famous and rich band and the album was highly anticipated. That situation does not apply for new or less well-known bands and it is not a stragedy that can work on a larger scale.

There's really no rational way to defend illegal downloading. Or would you want to do your work for free? Downloaders probably aren't interested in going to work every day and not get any paycheck, so why should that be the case for musicians. There was nothing wrong with the old situation where you saved up some money, went to a store and proudly bought a new record. Then everybody got what they wanted and it was fair. Now it's different and people blame record companies just because stealing has become too easy and they don't want to pay.