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thomasquinn 32989 user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 12 Jun 10, 06:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As some of you might have heard, the far-right Dutch 'Freedom Party' of Geert Wilders has gained a huge triumph in this week's general elections. I'd just like to sketch for you a couple of the developments that have taken place over the last three years or so:

- A large number of Dutchmen now believe it is perfectly acceptable to refuse to employ people on the basis of their ethnic background (a Dutch supermarket is on trial over refusing to employ Moroccans, and is receiving massive support from Wilders-voters).
- The most popular theory as to why the country is in "such bad shape" (which is a questionable statement in itself), is that there is a conspiracy between the supposedly 'socialist' elite and Islam.
- It is now argued that Hitler was a left-winger - after all, his party was called National *Socialist*, and that labour parties everywhere in the world are fascist organizations.
- Not just global warming, but environmental pollution is held to be a global conspiracy by left-wingers who want to take everyone's freedom away to impose an Islamic religious state upon the entire world (I know this sounds incoherent, but it's what Wilders' supporters argue, even on the party website).
- Saying that all Muslims are criminals and freeloaders is not racism, because Muslims aren't a race, and thus it cannot be considered a crime.
- The building of a mosque abridges the freedom of the people of the Netherlands, but banning the Qu'ran enhances that freedom.
- If a person with a non-European ethnic background is charged with a crime, he or she should be punished more severely than a European. This is not held to be arbitrary justice - punishing them the same as Europeans is considered as giving 'foreigners' preferential treatment.

Slowly, I'm starting to wonder if today, about 65 years after the end of World War II in Europe, the nazi's haven't won the war after all.

The 'party' (it technically isn't a party, because it has no members and Wilders himself makes all the decisions, and it does not comply with the democratic duty of making the source of their donations public) that represents these views now has 1/6th of all seats in the Dutch lower house, and is a candidate for taking part in a right-wing government led by the free market "People's Party for Freedom and Democracy". Goodbye, Netherlands, hello Fourth Reich.


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Posted: 12 Jun 10, 17:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Depressing. Horrifying and depressing. I've always knew Wilders to be a disgusting racist, but I've never realised just how horrible he truly is. Reading this makes me realise he is even more terrible than I had previously thought. The fact that his party would be so widely supported makes me question whether I should travel to Holland at all.

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Posted: 13 Jun 10, 04:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The Netherlands have always been a role model of tolerance in Europe. It's very sad that a guy like Wilders now dominates the political discourse. It shows us how important it is to address the issue of integration in a calm and reasonable way in order to avoid that xenophobia spreads over  the continent like wildfire.

However - I think it's very very wrong to charge Wilders in a court for his movie "Fitna". In Europe such a film should be possible - we still have freedom of speech. I believe that this court case helped Wilders to win these many votes.


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Posted: 13 Jun 10, 04:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



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Posted: 14 Jun 10, 05:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Adolph Quinn wrote:

Goodbye, Netherlands, hello Fourth Reich.


How fitting that you live there.

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Posted: 14 Jun 10, 05:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Micrówave wrote:

Adolph Quinn wrote:

Goodbye, Netherlands, hello Fourth Reich.

How fitting that you live there.
Adolph Quinn? Is that supposed to be funny or...?


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Posted: 14 Jun 10, 06:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I honestly can't take any of Microwave's slurs seriously - he's probably disappointed that Wilders and DeWinter didn't win absolute majorities in Holland respectively Belgium this week.

Incidently, Harry Mens, the driving force behind Pim Fortuyn's ascent as well as Wilders' has now finally revealed his true colours: he says that a "Jewish conspiracy is taking place to form a new purple cabinet". The purple cabinet consisted of Dutch Labour, Lib Dem and classical liberals (People's Party for Freedom and Democracy) and governed Holland during most of the 1990s.


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Posted: 15 Jun 10, 00:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

No offense, but I believe Pim Fortuyn deserved to be shot. Despite being gay himself, he wanted to take away rights from other minorities.


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Posted: 15 Jun 10, 02:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

No-one deserves to be shot. Not even Wilders. Such radical ideas is exactly what it's all about.


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Posted: 15 Jun 10, 04:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

To me, it didn't matter that the VVD (right wing, liberal party) won the elections and that they beat te PvdA (left wing, socialist party - which I voted for). It's just an economic model that I don't believe in.

But what sickens me is that apparantly 1 in 6 of the Dutch voters (1,5 million people) voted for Geert Wilders.

I agree with Barbara that he shouldn't have been prosecuted for his film Fitna, and that we have the right of freedom of speech. But, what a lot of people seem to forget, Freedom of speech doesn't mean you have to say anything you want. No matter if it hurts people or not.
Of course I don't think religious people and religion can get away with everything they want, and are above the law. But that's something totally different than hurt people on purpose.

For example: Last year, Geert Wilders said that muslims who wear a Hijab should be taxed. Cause she who pollutes has to pay the price. He could've called it Hijahtax (hoofddoekjestax), or head cloak tax, for that matter. But he clearly thought it all through and he called it. "Kopvoddentax". Which is a word I cannot even translate to English.

Kop, in dutch means head. But it is something you use for animals, not for humans.
Vodden, is plural for old, dirty piece of cloth. Something like the english 'rag'.

You see he deliberatly chose these word to offend.
Which sickens me.


"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



(Genesis 1:1)
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Posted: 15 Jun 10, 04:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

And I don't want to compare Geert Wilders to Adolf Hitler. But still, there are so many similarities that it's scary. We live in times of economic crisis and Wilders can give the ignorant masses someone they can blame it all on. No matter if they are the cause or not.

I get goosebumps when I think of it.

1 in 6, people!


"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



(Genesis 1:1)
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Posted: 15 Jun 10, 05:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

FriedChicken wrote: And I don't want to compare Geert Wilders to Adolf Hitler. But still, there are so many similarities that it's scary. We live in times of economic crisis and Wilders can give the ignorant masses someone they can blame it all on. No matter if they are the cause or not.

I get goosebumps when I think of it.

1 in 6, people!
Well I heard that in Alabama, 40% of people are against interracial marriage/relationships. When you consider whites only, that probably more than 50% of whites.
Some of their elected leaders were and still are openly racist. Don't be surprised by a '1 in 6' figure. In some rural areas of India, more than 80% of the Hindu populace believe Muslims should be purged from India. Likewise in many majority-Muslim areas. A blatantly anti-Muslim party, the BJP(equivalent to BNP of the UK) was in power as recently as 2004. Muslims are persecuted here more so than in the Netherlands. In Rajasthan, Muslims were targeted in a mini-genocide not too long ago.
Most Indians(Hindus) aren't like that but there are always fringe groups who breed communal animosity, especially in the illiterate, conservative areas. I'm atheist, but "Muslim" is part of my identity. You could call it a "sub-race". Especially in West Bengal, there are glaring cultural differences between Muslim and Hindu Bengalis, religious differences notwithstanding. At least 1 in 8 to 1 in 10 of employers will reject my applications on the basis of my religion being Islam(according to my birth certificate). Some are outright racist while others practise "traditional" racism, i.e. some Hindus believe touching or working with non-Hindus makes them impure. None of the bigger corporations do this crap but it is present in small-to-medium businesses and firms.


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Posted: 15 Jun 10, 12:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Anybody that compares Hitler, nazis, or Reichs to anything is a complete moron...  as evidenced by the thread starter.

I don't think Holland, Denmark, The Netherlands, or even Luxembourg are planning to gas millions of people.

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Posted: 15 Jun 10, 13:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Micrówave wrote: "Anybody that compares Hitler, nazis, or Reichs to anything is a complete moron... as evidenced by the thread starter."


Yet you called ThomasQuinn Adolph Quinn. What does that say about you?



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Posted: 15 Jun 10, 13:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

No, I just think that TQ channels Hitler all the time.  You don't have to read too many of his posts to spot a catchy nazi reference.  I definitely would not compare the two, I just think that TQ has some sort of Nazi-Hitler-man crush going.

I already know I'm a moron.  I'm arguing with TQ... isn't that proof enough?

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Posted: 15 Jun 10, 14:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's bitter to think that the most stunning revelation in the last post was that Microwave apparently *thinks*.


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Posted: 15 Jun 10, 18:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

ThomasQuinn wrote: It's bitter to think that the most stunning revelation in the last post was that Microwave apparently *thinks*.
=================

I have to wonder if Microwave and mooghead are both one and in all the same person, considering their similar penchants for dissing most other users here plus not contributing anything much to the topic at hand itself.

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Posted: 16 Jun 10, 11:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

TQ: I see where you're getting at, though I still think that labelling the party as Nazi does very little to help
or clarify anything. I don't know a thing about the politics in your country, but whenever I come across radical
statements such as these you mentioned I try hard to look beyond the cloud of irrationalism to understand what real
questions the extremists are striving - however poorly and misguidedly - to address. Take, say, the question
regarding the links between left-wing groups, parties and intellectuals and Islamic organizations - this is
a real issue. They're not making that up entirely. They may have misread the reality and depicted it in a
distorted way, but there's some truth to their claims.

Take Brazil, for instance. All left-wing parties, including the one which is ruling the country
right now and still defines itself as a left-wing alternative, and most of the left-wing intellectuals are
staunch supporters of Iran, which is hardly a moderate political force. This political arrangement resulted in
Brazil's refusal to go along with almost the whole international community in backing sanctions against the Iranian nuclear-program. Brazil actively supports Venezuela, which is suspected to maintain relations with terrorist groups.

The Brazilian President has equated on record the protesters who were ruthlessly beaten up by the Iranian Guard to
the plaintive supporters of a defeated football squad.

Finally, Brazil was the first country to acknowledge the legitimacy of the outcome of the Iranian elections - and it
did so just a couple of hours after the result had been pronounced...

Likewise, there is a very well-coordinated effort to dismiss any harsher critique of Israel as anti-semitism. It isn't proof of a Jewish conspiracy, to be sure, but it does help increase and foster anti-semitic feelings.


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Posted: 16 Jun 10, 13:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Don't worry Yara, TQ is always comparing things to Nazi Germany.  I actually think he'd welcome it's rebirth.

Inu-Luigi wrote:

I wonder if Microwave and mooghead are both one and in all the same person, considering their similar penchants for dissing most other users here plus not contributing anything much to the topic at hand itself.


No you and I are both one and the same.

Because you just popped in this thread to "diss" me and not contribute anything much to the topic at hand itself.

Damn, even my fingers felt funny typing the above line.  Nice English, Inu-lugey.  "Not contributing anything much".