Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Cataloguing Unreleased Material

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Jam Monkey user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 17 Jun 10, 17:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

An idea I have had for a while is to catalogue and collect all the unreleased material that has been shared; all those demos and convention recording etc...

I think this would have a number of benefits. Firstly everyone would know what is out there and where it was. Right now this material is spread out over many locations, and in some cases may not be available any more. Having it all in one place would make it easy for new collectors to going. We could also put all the best available versions in one place.

Secondly I get annoyed at the many fakes out there; all that rubbish made my changing the stereo balance or manipulating the 5.1 tracks. By knowing what is genuine we could begin to purge these fakes from the pool.

Thirdly it might help with the wait for the box set.

I am not talking about what is in private collections; this is just about what has been shared publicly.

I am pretty sure I could do 90% of this myself, and I’ve already started, but I will need some help. If anyone with a good knowledge of shared material would like to help, then please get in touch.  I am sure that together we could create something really worthwhile.

My email is jam_monkey@hotmail.com

Thanks
Craig


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Posted: 17 Jun 10, 21:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Certainly a noble and worthwile task. Adam Unger's excellent site, QueenVault.com is a good place to start for reference material on what's been leaked and what's been showcased at Queen conventions.

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Posted: 18 Jun 10, 00:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

QueenVault.com is a fantastic site, but the demos are not listed chronologically

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Posted: 18 Jun 10, 01:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Adam's site is indeed excellent, but of course he lists many demos that have not been shared as well!

What I am talking about is a definative list of shared demos so everyone knows what is out there, and then collecting the best versions and putting them all in one place.

Perhaps it is best if I take a stab at this first and then post my findings for corrections.


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Posted: 18 Jun 10, 01:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Give it a few days, you'll get some replies from the hardcore collectors out there.

Come to think of it, though, this Forum HAS been quiet lately.

Too quiet...

(my eyes survey the wilderness suspiciously...)

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Posted: 18 Jun 10, 06:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

http://www.UltimateQueen.co.uk/


on the way since jazz ...
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Posted: 18 Jun 10, 09:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

pittrek wrote:

"QueenVault.com is a fantastic site, but the demos are not listed chronologically"

Indeed.  For starters, Silver Salmon is still listed under the debut album when it should be under News Of The World.  The myth was long ago debunked


"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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Posted: 18 Jun 10, 12:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong...but....

"Silver Salmon" was a Tim Staffell track. The leaked demo appears to be from the Queen 1 period, where they were messing around with Smile tracks as well as their own, such as "Polar Bear" and "Doing all Right."

By 1977, the band wouldn't need to pull out old Smile tracks. And even if they did, just to jam with, Freddie's vocal on the recording sounds much younger than his New Of The World recordings, even including the "Feeling Feelings" demo.

SirGH, yours is the first statement I've read contradicting the origins of the song/recording. Was there a thread here I missed where the case was made and proven for the NOTW era origin? If so, I'd love to read it. I'm pretty sure Adam would as well, as he tends to be meticulous with his research.

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Posted: 18 Jun 10, 14:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Bob is right. Just listen to both the drum and guitar sound. I believe you can hear timbales, which Roger used in that period. Also, Brian's distinctive guitar sound  reminds me of songs like It's Late and WWRY fast version. Freddie still sounded 'young' back then as he didn't smoke yet (just an assumption, but sounds reasonable, doesn't it?). Don't underestimate him: he had a brilliant voice in that period!

It's just a random jam of the song.The origins of the song might stem from the early seventies; this recording is definitely from a few years later.


John: "It's the one thing I wish I could do - sing."

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Posted: 18 Jun 10, 14:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's a compelling argument, but I'm still not convinced.

For the longest time, it was argued that "Celebration" and "I Can't Get You Out Of My Head" were Strange Frontier era, Roger-penned tracks, both of which later definitively proven to be Cross songs, written by Spike Edney and Clayton Moss respectively.

Like I said, I'm not saying I know one way ot the other, but we're all just bouncing around conjecture based on what we hear in the demo.

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Posted: 18 Jun 10, 16:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Ok here is my first stab at a list of what has been shared. I've not included anything that is is any way 'released' such a multi tracks from Guitar Hero, or The Hitman demo. I've also not included anything I feel it 'fake' such as the various 'Acapella' or 'Instrumental' tracks that are just manipulated 5.1 tracks.

I am sure there is more that could be added, but I've concentrated on 'proper' demos and convention recordings. The first step is to see if there is any more out there, and the second step will be to collect the best versions and share.

Your thoughts please...

De Lane Lea Demos
Keep Yourself Alive
Great King Rat
Liar
The Night Comes Down
Jesus

Demos
Silver Salmon
Polar Bear
Feelings
Feelings Feelings
Staying Power
Back Chat
Action This Day
Life Is Real (Song For Lennon)
Las Palabras de Amor (The Words Of Love)
Cool Cat
Feel Like
Keep Passing The Open Windows (1st Version)
Keep Passing The Open Windows (2nd Version)
The Miracle
I Want It All (Vocal Demo)
I Want It All (Instrumental Demo)
The Invisible Man
Scandal
My Baby Loves Me
Hang On In There
Stealin'
Hijack My Heart
Too Much Love Will Kill You
A New Life Is Born
I Guess We're Falling Out
Dog With A Bone (Studio Version)
Headlong
Delilah
Self Made Man
My Secret Fantasy
Robbery

Covention Recordings
Great King Rat (1st Version)
Great King Rat (2nd Version)
Nevermore
The March Of The Black Queen
Funny How Love Is
Brighton Rock
Tenement Funster (Part recording only)
In The Lap Of The Gods
Tie Your Mother Down
Somebody To Love (Studio Out-Takes)
Somebody To Love (Vocal Out-Takes)
Feelings Feelings ('Number 9' Version)
Jealousy
Let Me Entertain You
Sail Away Sweet Sister
Comming Soon (Instrumental Jam)
Sandbox
Dancer
Back Chat
Put Out The Fire
It’s A Hard Life (Part recording only)
I Go Crazy
One Vison
Khashoggi's Ship
Rain Must Fall
Dog With A Bone (Fan Club Version)
Face It Alone (1st Version)
Face It Alone (2nd Version)

Multi-Tracks
Brighton Rock
Killer Queen
Get Down Make Love
Bohemian Rhapsody

BBC Session 2
See What A Fool I’ve Been
Liar
Son and Daughter
Keep Yourself Alive

BBC Session 4
Modern Times Rock'n'Roll
White Queen (As It Began)
Nevermore
The March Of The Black Queen

BBC Session 5
Tenement Funster
Flick Of The Wrist
Now I'm Here
Stone Cold Crazy
Carousel

BBC Session 6
We Will Rock You
Spread Your Wings
It's Late
My Melancholy Blues

Other
The Call


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Posted: 18 Jun 10, 16:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Jam Monkey wrote:

Your thoughts please...

De Lane Lea Demos
Keep Yourself Alive
Great King Rat
Liar
The Night Comes Down
Jesus

Demos
Silver Salmon
Polar Bear
Feelings
Feelings Feelings
Staying Power
Back Chat
Action This Day
Life Is Real (Song For Lennon)
Las Palabras de Amor (The Words Of Love)
Cool Cat
Feel Like
Keep Passing The Open Windows (1st Version)
Keep Passing The Open Windows (2nd Version)
The Miracle
I Want It All (Vocal Demo)
I Want It All (Instrumental Demo)
The Invisible Man
Scandal
My Baby Loves Me
Hang On In There
Stealin'
Hijack My Heart
Too Much Love Will Kill You
A New Life Is Born
I Guess We're Falling Out
Dog With A Bone (Studio Version)
Headlong
Delilah
Self Made Man
My Secret Fantasy
Robbery

Covention Recordings
Great King Rat (1st Version)
Great King Rat (2nd Version)
Nevermore
The March Of The Black Queen
Funny How Love Is
Brighton Rock
Tenement Funster (Part recording only)
In The Lap Of The Gods
Tie Your Mother Down
Somebody To Love (Studio Out-Takes)
Somebody To Love (Vocal Out-Takes)
Feelings Feelings ('Number 9' Version)
Jealousy
Let Me Entertain You
Sail Away Sweet Sister
Comming Soon (Instrumental Jam)
Sandbox
Dancer
Back Chat
Put Out The Fire
It’s A Hard Life (Part recording only)
I Go Crazy
One Vison
Khashoggi's Ship
Rain Must Fall
Dog With A Bone (Fan Club Version)
Face It Alone (1st Version)
Face It Alone (2nd Version)

Multi-Tracks
Brighton Rock
Killer Queen
Get Down Make Love
Bohemian Rhapsody

BBC Session 2
See What A Fool I’ve Been
Liar
Son and Daughter
Keep Yourself Alive

BBC Session 4
Modern Times Rock'n'Roll
White Queen (As It Began)
Nevermore
The March Of The Black Queen

BBC Session 5
Tenement Funster
Flick Of The Wrist
Now I'm Here
Stone Cold Crazy
Carousel

BBC Session 6
We Will Rock You
Spread Your Wings
It's Late
My Melancholy Blues

Other
The Call
=================================
Thoughts:

Wouldn't the best version of "The Night Comes Down" be from one of the recent remasters of the album? It WAS the same version as from the De Lane Lea sessions. Or is that not "demo-y" enough sounding, haha?

What of "The Miracle Demos Medley"? Don't tell me we're chopping that up just to get to its component parts. Many of the individual parts are incomplete, but in the 'original' Medley form, as created by QP for the convention, to me they hold greater significance than being diced to pieces.

Also, there are a few demos listed above I haven't got. Shame on me!

What is "Carousel," listed under BBC Session 5? Is that refering to the Carousel music Brian used from the SFX LP in 1974? If so, it's a curiousity, sure, but not part of the BBC Session and neither is it, technically, a Queen track. It's just a sample they used for the song.

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Posted: 18 Jun 10, 19:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

At some point didn't Greg send someone a fantastic quality alternate take of something from either Queen 1 or Queen 2 that they then uploaded here....can't actually remember what it was.

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Posted: 18 Jun 10, 19:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

At some point didn't Greg send someone a fantastic quality alternate take of something from either Queen 1 or Queen 2 that they then uploaded here....can't actually remember what it was.

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Posted: 19 Jun 10, 11:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I too would like to read the thread about Silver Salmon being from the News of the World sessions. It sure feels like a Queen 1 outtake to me, but I could be wrong.  I also don't understand why it should be so difficult to find this out for sure by asking Brian.  He posts and seemingly corresponds so much with people through his website, isn't it an easy enough question for him to answer? Why is so much of Queen's history so seemingly secretive, when we have three members of the band still alive and well?

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Posted: 20 Jun 10, 03:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Ok, firstly let me deal with the points raised.

I added Carousel as it was included on the BBC Session recently shared by John and Peter. It was on the BBC master tape owned by John.

I wasn't aware of The Miracle Medley, I had always had them as separate tracks. Of course we can included the medley, we just need someone to share it.

There are a few questions I need answered before we can start to put something together to upload.
1) Do we want to include demos that have been released? In other words Butterfly and The Hitman.
2) Have the multitracks I mentioned been shared? I know they are widespread but I don't know if they are freely available.
3) Has the 'demo' of Machines ever been shared? I can't find it if it has.
4) Some demos seem to be know by other names. There is an instrumental jam that has been described as Dragon Attack and Comming Soon. Does anyone know what is actually is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEzI6AltuH4
5) The demos called Feelings and Feelings Feelings are considered by some to be different versions of the same track. The lyrics are similar, is everyone happy we catalouge this way?


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Posted: 20 Jun 10, 07:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

1) I think we should include released demos, but instead of a download link, provide a link to purchase the item. If it is something very rare and of a limited number (The Hints of Innuendo Tape for example) then I believe it is acceptable to offer it for download.

2) Multitracks should be included in a section of their own, but not linked to from the site, as Brian was unhappy to see them out in the open. They are widely available on torrent and download sites, but again they should not be linked to.

3) I have a so-called Machines demo, although it is rather short and uninteresting. It will definitely have been shared somewhere, as I am relatively new to collecting Queen demos. If it is nowhere on this site I will upload it.

4) I am also curious as to the identity of this track, although I think Coming Soon is probably our best bet. It is almost certainly not Dragon Attack, as Queenvault provides a description completely different to the track in hand.

5) I think that "Feelings is perhaps just a jam that went on to inspire the song, or alternately, it is just a regular jam with Freddie utilising some of the lyrics from "Feelings Feelings". One interesting point is that the final chord of "Feelings" is the beginning of the "Silver Salmon" demo, and this is why I would catalogue it as from the NOTW sessions.

Just my feelings.


Property Of Queen Productions...
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Posted: 20 Jun 10, 09:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thank you for that very thoughtful reply Ginja. I've always treated 'Feelings' and 'Feelings Feelings' as separate tracks, and I think I will continue to do so.

I am happy to share The Hitman, and I have a much better version that commonly circulates from my copy of Hints Of Innuendo; but I don't want to get anyone (Particulary me) in trouble.

No need to share the Machines demo, I have it and I will upload with the rest of the collection.


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Posted: 20 Jun 10, 11:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I've always considered "Feelings" and " Feeling Feelings" as two different, independent compositions (regardless of the state of completion). The only thing they share is a similar name and that they're both demos. "Feeling Feelings" from the NOTW sessions sounds much more complete, with coherent lyrics and a pretty polished backing track. In fact, it could well have been issued as a B-side as is, in my opinion.

I also think the fact that they have similar names, coupled with the fact that at one time (and still in dark corners of the internet) "Feelings" is quite erroneously refered to as "Silver Salmon Version 2," has resulted in a good many fans getting quite confused about the origin of these tracks.

I know there are fans who believe that the leaked demo of "Silver Salmon" hails from NOTW and I'm not going to try to change anyone's mind on that.

Here's my opinion:

"Feelings" ( likely 1972, Queen 1 sessions) (also, in no way related, musically, to "SS" or "FF")
"Silver Salmon" (likely 1972 Queen 1 sessions)
"Feeling Feelings" (pretty certainly NOTW session) 

Okay, that's my two-cents on that issue.

I'm still stuck on this "Carousel" track. Are we refering to the carousel music Brian used to intro Brighton Rock on SHA? If so, no matter who shared it with what other files, it's still not technically a Queen track. Nor is it unreleased. It's rare, I suppose, but if we insist on including it, it shouldn't be coupled with unrelated BBC session tracks. I'd classify it independanty, noting its "significance" clearly.

Regarding "The Miracle Demos Medley," my understanding of this track is that it was compiled by someone at Queen Productions and played at a Fan Club Con in the '90s. It is a selection of demos from The Miracle (obviously) and is cleverly mixed together. The ending of the leaked verion cuts out part way into "Chinese Torture" and no one knows if that's how the original QP mix ended, or if the leaked version got cut somewhere down the line.

I'll try to upload it, but no garauntees, as I've never tried to upload anything on QZ. If I fail, I'll at least make it a YouTube post and provide the link. Actually, it may already be up there somewhere.

Once you hear it, you may agree that keeping the Medley intact is wiser than using the individual, incomplete tracks. I know I prefer to hear it all together, but that may just be me.

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Posted: 20 Jun 10, 13:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Okay...a little help here...

I'm trying to upload The Miracle Demos Medley and when I select "Upload" it tells me: "Please select at least one Text file".

What does THAT mean? I've tried added a rtf and doc file to the upload, but I still get the same thing, nothing happens when I click "Upload". Is this a website glitch? I seem to be doing everything correctly.

Help!