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Gregsynth user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 29 Jun 10, 03:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



The biggest question I have, is when was this recorded? Some people say it's from the early 70s, while others say it's from the late 70s.


I always knew I was a star And now, the rest of the world seems to agree with me-Freddie Mercury
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Posted: 29 Jun 10, 09:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

1977


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Posted: 29 Jun 10, 09:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The demo I've heard floating around has chatter at the beginning, including the infamous line from Freddie saying, "I know he doesn't know it..." and doesn't fade out, but rather finishes with big guitar flourish.

The posted version above sounds like it was altered in order to sound more like a finished track.

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Posted: 29 Jun 10, 10:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

is it possible that it's running a bit fast, therefore pitched up?   I've read the various contentions that place the recording in the NOTW sessions, and I can't argue with the logic... but Freddie sounds young - like Queen I young, unless the speed is off.


Joseph A. Silvey
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Posted: 29 Jun 10, 10:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

joesilvey wrote: is it possible that it's running a bit fast, therefore pitched up?   I've read the various contentions that place the recording in the NOTW sessions, and I can't argue with the logic... but Freddie sounds young - like Queen I young, unless the speed is off.

If you ask me, Freddie sounds "pre-Queen young". His voice sounds almost the same as on "I Can Hear Music".

V.


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Posted: 29 Jun 10, 10:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

marvinp01 wrote: 1977

I think I go to heaven
Cos' I been too long on the dole
And I can't work at ll

Danger stranger
You Better Pain Your Face
No Elvis, Beatles or The Rolling Stones
In 1977

,,,

Sorry I couldn't resist :-)

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Posted: 29 Jun 10, 13:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Indeed, the tape is playing too fast.  That's why his voice sounds a few years younger.


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Posted: 29 Jun 10, 17:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

This song was written by Tim Staffel in the band Smile. This is a unreleased track from the Queen's debut album sessions. Therefore, it was recording about 1971-1972(probably)because the freddie's voice is similar to the voice of songs "goin'back" or "I can hear music".


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Posted: 29 Jun 10, 19:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's a mystery because I can hear Roger playing with Roto Toms or the Ludwig Timbales, which he used on stage beginning  late 76- onwards. But Freddies voice sounds like its early 70's

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Posted: 29 Jun 10, 21:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The song was recorded during the NOTW sessions. One of the giveaways (especially for drummers) is that Roger is now using Ludwig timbales. He didn't have these for the ADATR sessions or tours. These were acquired prior to the NOTW sessions. The sound of the drums is the same at the those sessions as well. There is also prominant use of a China type cymbal. During Queen's early years Roger didn't use a China. Not until ADATR did he start using them as can be heard in Somebody to Love and can be seen in the video too. The bottom line? Roger's drums are the clue to the year of this recording. Freddie's voice sounds "younger" because the recording is slighly sped up.

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Posted: 30 Jun 10, 01:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I slowed down the track in Audacity slightly, and the effect on Freddie's voice was a shock; he sounds alot older.

Attachment: 1001301208223655.mp3 941 KB
This has been downloaded 103 time(s).



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Posted: 30 Jun 10, 02:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

This is hilarious.

Let's alter the existing the evidence because part of it doesn't fit our theory. We're stuck, because Freddie's voice doesn't match with the age of the drum sound, so we change his voice, because CLEARLY that's the problem.

Yeah, that's some top-notch detective work there. We learned that slowing the pitch down makes Freddie sound older. Ignoring the fact that the guitar seems to drop to a different key and the drums just sound odd, Freddie's voice now sounds like it might have in 1977.

We're in what's called a Catch 22 here, boys and girls. The 1977 theory only holds up if you concede that the existing recording floating around fandom is being listened to at the wrong pitch (too high). In order for us to concede that the pitch is too high and should be slowed down, we have to believe that the recording originates from 1977. We believe the recording is from 1977 because we believe the pitch is too high, so we slow it down so it will sound like it's from 1977. And around and around we go.

If we choose not to take the recording at face value, no argument can logically win. This is so because we simply do not have enough information about this recording. We infere and guess and try to support our theories with facts that only account for a portion of what we are hearing. Once we alter the evidence we have, the recording, the debate is finished. We can go no further building a case either way because the foundation upon which we theorize has been compromised, utterly and completely.

"Numquam ponenda est pluralitas sine necessitate" William of Ockham

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Posted: 30 Jun 10, 02:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Oh my God people ! Have you ever heard songs like Cool Cat demo, or Pain Is So Close To Pleasure ?
I think Freddie sounds like "1972-Freddie" there too, but these songs were recorded in the 80's.
I hear absolutely no evidence which would allow me to assume that the demo runs too fast. Everything sounds like running in the correct speed to my ears

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Posted: 30 Jun 10, 04:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't understand why Greg doesn't just solve the mystery for us, or does he only reply to threads where he gets slagged off?

Gary Taylor!!!
Any ideas mate?

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Posted: 30 Jun 10, 06:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's 1977, without a single doubt. Roger used a completely different drum kit in the early years, thus had a completely different sound.

This song is on the same tape as Feelings Feelings, which is also from 1977. Also, Brian's guitar sound is very NOTW-ish. A plain, simple, hard rocking guitar in comparison to the more harmonic, synth-like guitar sound from the early years.


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Posted: 30 Jun 10, 07:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Rick wrote: It's 1977, without a single doubt. Roger used a completely different drum kit in the early years, thus had a completely different sound.

This song is on the same tape as Feelings Feelings, which is also from 1977. Also, Brian's guitar sound is very NOTW-ish. A plain, simple, hard rocking guitar in comparison to the more harmonic, synth-like guitar sound from the early years.
I would guess most demos from the early years had the plain, simple guitar on them too. Agree this is something that could be cleared up simply and easily by someone close to the band. But of course there's no profit to be made from freely sharing such info -- unfortunately Queen reps only post here to ask for information, not to provide it.


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Posted: 30 Jun 10, 07:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

pittrek wrote: Oh my God people ! Have you ever heard songs like Cool Cat demo, or Pain Is So Close To Pleasure ?
I think Freddie sounds like "1972-Freddie" there too, but these songs were recorded in the 80's.
I hear absolutely no evidence which would allow me to assume that the demo runs too fast. Everything sounds like running in the correct speed to my ears

===================

No, it's WAY too fast.


I always knew I was a star And now, the rest of the world seems to agree with me-Freddie Mercury
Gregsynth user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 30 Jun 10, 07:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's got to be from the late 70s, listen to Freddie's timbre--identical to the NOTW era.

The youtube video is sped up around half a semitone--making Freddie's voice seem higher (like the early 70s). When it was corrected, you can hear Freddie's "real" timbre.


I always knew I was a star And now, the rest of the world seems to agree with me-Freddie Mercury
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Posted: 30 Jun 10, 08:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Silver salmon was recorded between 1973 and 1974. Not finished for Queen I but was originally going to be included on Queen II

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Posted: 30 Jun 10, 09:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I can't believe this is still going on..

Here's all the evidence to prove (not suggest - PROVE) this recording is from 1977:

-Roger's drum kit contains timbales, which he used ONLY on the NOTW album.

-Roger's drum style is greatly evolved.  He didn't use the "slightly open hi-hat with snare" technique in the early days like he did by 1977.

-The sound on Feelings Feelings and Silver Salmon is identical - mix, EQ, everything.

Even before Freddie's voice is brought into the argument, it's done.  Case closed.  Undebatable.  Next topic.


"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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