Forums > Queen - General Discussion > Alternate Jazz

forum rss feed
Author

rhyeking user not visiting Queenzone.com
rhyeking
Royalty: 1566 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 07 Aug 10, 13:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Inspired by Vali and Bob's recent comments on the Alternate Hot Space thread, I thought I'd take a look at Jazz. Unlike Hot Space, Jazz has no issues with its reputation, yet some have pointed out that the track listing is a bit, I don't know, odd. I agree that tweaking it might improve the flow.

Here's my suggestion:

Side 1
01) Let Me Entertain You
02) Fat Bottomed Girls
03) Bicycle Race
04) If You Can't Beat Them
05) In Only Seven Days
06) Dead On Time

Side 2
07) Mustapha
08) Dreamer's Ball
09) Fun It
10) Leaving Home Ain't Easy
11) Don't Stop Me Now
12) Jealousy
13) More Of That Jazz

mike hunt user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 2756 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 07 Aug 10, 15:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Disagee......The only few changes i make are bicycle races follows Fat Bottomed girls like you pointed out,  and get rid of fun it and more of that jazz for a better roger song that he was saving for his solo album.  I would leave the awsome mustapha and let me entertain you where they are.

mooghead user not visiting Queenzone.com
mooghead
Deity: 3613 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 07 Aug 10, 16:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Jazz has no issues with its reputation,"

Jazz was the beginning of the end. Mustapha is in a constant war with Body Language as the worst Queen song ever made.

rhyeking user not visiting Queenzone.com
rhyeking
Royalty: 1566 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 07 Aug 10, 17:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Moog, let us know what those voices in your head come up with as a winner of this war of yours.

Mike, do we know whether Roger was writing his Fun In Space material this early? Sure, he'd written "I Wanna Testify" and "Turn On The TV," not to mention various Queen songs on NOTW and Jazz, but if he'd started FIS, even a few songs, it would mean he kept them locked away for three years, by-passing even The Game (for which he wrote three songs). Or Queen just didn't want them for Jazz or The Game, which is hard to believe given some of the FIS songs are certainly stronger than "Fun It".

All I've learned about FIS was that Roger recorded it in about a month, as something of a rush job, which is why he took a year to record Strange Frontier (simultaneous to The Works).

mike hunt user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 2756 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 08 Aug 10, 02:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Beginning of the end my ass........mustapha rules!......One of queens best tracks.

mike hunt user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 2756 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 08 Aug 10, 02:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

rhyeking wrote: Moog, let us know what those voices in your head come up with as a winner of this war of yours.

Mike, do we know whether Roger was writing his Fun In Space material this early? Sure, he'd written "I Wanna Testify" and "Turn On The TV," not to mention various Queen songs on NOTW and Jazz, but if he'd started FIS, even a few songs, it would mean he kept them locked away for three years, by-passing even The Game (for which he wrote three songs). Or Queen just didn't want them for Jazz or The Game, which is hard to believe given some of the FIS songs are certainly stronger than "Fun It".

All I've learned about FIS was that Roger recorded it in about a month, as something of a rush job, which is why he took a year to record Strange Frontier (simultaneous to The Works).

when was roger's first solo album?.....i thought it was 78 or was it 81?

rhyeking user not visiting Queenzone.com
rhyeking
Royalty: 1566 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 08 Aug 10, 03:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

When Fun In Space was recorded...

Roger has said the following:
1) recorded in about a month, somewhat rushed.
2) recorded between Queen commitments

It was recorded at the then-Queen-owned Mountain Studios, Switzerland.

Feb-May 1980 - Queen finish The Game (Musicland Studios, Germany) (it seems unlikely he recorded the album before this date, because why wait more than a year to release it?)
June 19-Oct 1 - Queen US Game Tour
Oct -Nov - Queen record Flash Gordon (Town House Studios, London)
Nov 23-Dec 19 - The Game Eurpean Tour
Feb 10-March 21 1981- The Game Japan Tour & Gluttons For Punishments Tour
April 6 - Fun In Space is released

As you can see, not too many gaps of time, so my best guess is January 1981, after a holiday break at Christmas, after recording, touring, recording and touring (you see where the name "Gluttons for Punishment" comes from.

Rick user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 4792 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 08 Aug 10, 03:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The songs are great on Jazz. Horrible produced though. It sounds way too shallow. Roger should have sticked to the same drum sound as on NOTW. Then Jazz would have sounded great. That is my alternate Jazz. I never had any trouble with its song order.


John: "It's the one thing I wish I could do - sing."

jamster1111 user not visiting Queenzone.com
jamster1111
Bohemian: 844 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 08 Aug 10, 11:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think they should have just cut More of that jazz from the record and it would have been fine. I think it would have been perfect to end with Don't Stop Me Now


It's late, but it's time to set me free

It's late, yes I know but there's no way it has to be

Too late, so let the fire take our bodies this night

So late, so let the waters take our guilt in the t
master marathon runner user not visiting Queenzone.com
master marathon runner
Royalty: 1198 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 09 Aug 10, 02:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

mooghead wrote: "Jazz has no issues with its reputation,"

Jazz was the beginning of the end. Mustapha is in a constant war with Body Language as the worst Queen song ever made.

 Are you sure you've got the right 'Mustapha' ?


Master Marathon Runner
Vali user not visiting Queenzone.com
Vali
Deity: 2044 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 09 Aug 10, 04:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

rhyeking wrote:

Here's my suggestion:

Side 1
01) Let Me Entertain You
02) Fat Bottomed Girls
03) Bicycle Race
04) If You Can't Beat Them
05) In Only Seven Days
06) Dead On Time

Side 2
07) Mustapha
08) Dreamer's Ball
09) Fun It
10) Leaving Home Ain't Easy
11) Don't Stop Me Now
12) Jealousy
13) More Of That Jazz

* * * * * * * * * * *

Hi rhyeking,

many tks for dedicating some time to my suggestion in the alternate Hot Space thread. Will have a listen to you proposal today and let you know my thoughts later. I agree Let Me Entertain You should have been the album opener, no doubts about it, just for its vibe and lyrics it´s a natural choice. 

Don´t Stop Me Now is difficult to place. Could work as an album opener too, but then LMEY would be lost again in the middle of the desert. Or we could have it as a perfect album closer, but then More Of That Jazz (specially because of its ending) would lose  its sense and couldn´t fit anywhere else,  so the only solution would be taking it out of the album , wich is an option I disregard as I love this track (as well as Fun It - and any other Roger-sung track -).

Re the Mustapha discussion: love it and can´t help it. It hits me so much everytime the "heavy section" enters.

cheers
Vali


Bring out the charge of the love brigade
*goodco* user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1121 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 09 Aug 10, 11:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As time evolved, my version went from deleting 'Fun It' to deleting 'More of that Jazz' (DSMN would have made a great final track).  Why?  Side two did not fit onto one of the four tracks on an 8 track tape.

Then, with cassettes...simply switching 'Jealousy' and 'Fun It' .  The 'flow' is better.  As is the sound mix.  'Fun It' is too bold for its position on side two.  The Pavlovian instincts of hearing 'Bicycle Race' after 'Jealousy' did take a while to overcome. 

Along with using the 45 beginning of FBG with the LP version (eliminating the boring guitar solo), and that's been my version for around twenty years.

I can see LMEY as an album intro, and Mustapha opening side two.....just tried to be as 'pure' as possible.

As for the drum mix...........


"Discretionary posting is the better part of valor." Falstaff
mike hunt user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 2756 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 10 Aug 10, 03:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thinking about it "let me entertain you' would have been a good opener.  Dead On time is a good side2 opener.....Mustapha would have made a good ending to side 1.    Not a big deal though.....those three songs are gems no matter where they are on the album.   Mustapha is one of freddie's best vocal performances ever.....He's brilliant on that one....Brian is also awsome.  does an amazing job with that middle eastern style.   The people who don't like this song?.........Are the people who think songs like headlong, tear it up,  put out the fire are top A rock songs.

Vali user not visiting Queenzone.com
Vali
Deity: 2044 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 10 Aug 10, 04:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

@ rhyeking:

well, I played your tracklisting yesterday, and this morning in the car too ... and it works pretty well !!

LMEY should have been the album opener. No doubts abou it now. I still got my issues with the position you placed Jealousy, but the overall works much, much better to me than the original tracklisting.

As with Bob´s alternate Hot Space, I´ll stick to this "new" Jazz ! 

cheers
Vali


Bring out the charge of the love brigade
rhyeking user not visiting Queenzone.com
rhyeking
Royalty: 1566 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 10 Aug 10, 10:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

@ Vali,

Glad you liked it.

"Jealousy" moved around a few times as I worked on it, mostly because it broke up the flow anywhere else I put it. I've read that there was a demo from the Jazz sessions where Freddie played the end of "Don't Stop Me Now" and the piano led into the beginining of Jealousy. Which makes a bit of sense. It doesn't quite work as smoothly with the album versions, but it was the best I could come up with.