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QOL Mab user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 08 Sep 10, 05:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Why do QPL (GT and GB being the public face thereof) care so little for the view of the fans, who are the ones actually buying (not for much longer though, I'd say) the product?

If I was them, I'd be CONCERNED that so many fans are opposed to what has been done with Volume 4 of the Singles Collections.

But, alarmingly, they don't care?  Why is that? 

They say power corrupts.........

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Posted: 08 Sep 10, 05:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

In Greg's defense, I haven't exactly seen him comment publicly about vol. 4 just yet. Also, he DID explain multiple times his proposed vision of the overall singles collection project as presented to the higher-ups in the development stages, and what basically ended up getting discarded to a heavily watered-down project. I don't think it's quite fair in my view to jump on his back all over this one just yet.

Gary on the other hand needs to develop a backbone of his own. I respect the guy and all personally, but I still find it disrespectful to attempt to brush criticisms from multiple people under the carpet and instead issue a series of illogical, sometimes contradictory sugar coated responses.


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Posted: 08 Sep 10, 07:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

QOL Mab wrote: Why do QPL (GT and GB being the public face thereof) care so little for the view of the fans, who are the ones actually buying (not for much longer though, I'd say) the product?

If I was them, I'd be CONCERNED that so many fans are opposed to what has been done with Volume 4 of the Singles Collections.

But, alarmingly, they don't care?  Why is that? 

They say power corrupts.........
===================================

Greatest Hits is currently number 22 and in it's 726th consecutive week on the Canadian Nielsen Soundscan Hard Rock chart.  726 weeks is how long that chart has been in existence, otherwise it would be longer.  Concurrently, Absolute Greatest is in the 12th position on the same chart and has made an appearance there for 41 weeks.  The 'so many fans' you speak of are a sliver and a pittance relative to what an evergreen product like the highlights of the Queen back catalogue can generate.  They're not concerned because there's no real reason to be from a business perspective.

rhyeking user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 08 Sep 10, 11:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I agree with GF on this one.

Though the Singles Collections are only recent releases which appear to somewhat miss their intended market (seasoned fans), the other releases have had one of two goals in mind:

1) Broaden the fan base with commercial-friendly releases (Absolute Greatest), some of which ride the coattails of the current Queen project (GH:WWRY Ed., Stone Cold Classics, etc).

2) Release new material, either in the form of older concerts (Live At The Bowl, Queen Rock Montreal) or new recordings (Return Of The Champions, The Cosmos Rocks, Live In Ukraine).

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Posted: 08 Sep 10, 18:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I didn't realise, as a kid years ago, when I first got into Queen, that they were such cunts who only care about the ''business perspective''.  Thought they respected their fans and were genuinely grateful to have them.

How wrong I was.

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Posted: 08 Sep 10, 20:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Music is a business.

A very big business.

Queen, like most artists, record new material throughout their career for artistic expression and to make money (and to get laid probably). Their record company and management have a responsibilty to them to keep their music in the public conciousness. That means, in addition to the new material they record, things like Hits collections and re-issues are released. The band probably has some veto power over certain releases, but it is in their best interest to be as seen and heard as possible.

The more recognizable their music is, the better. 

Saying they don't care, just because you haven't gotten what you want yet, is like the six year old I saw the other day crying that his dad didn't love him because dad didn't buy him an ice cream cone at the CNE.

Appreciate what you've been given, which is 16 studio albums, numerous solo records, live albums and a bunch of other cool stuff. You may not like it all, but it was all released because you and others are fans created the market for it. Don't fault Queen for wanting that market to grow and continue into the future.

The Real Wizard user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 08 Sep 10, 22:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

There is absolutely no reason why they cannot 'grow that market' and please the hardcore fans at the same time.  Just look at the track listing of the new Springsteen 'Darkness' boxed set and name one Queen product that comes 1/10th as close.


"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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Posted: 08 Sep 10, 23:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Because one series of releases (the Singles boxes) missed its mark and they haven't issued an anthology set of demos and outtakes, Queen and Queen Productions are no longer pleasing hardcore fans?

Keeping in mind that hardcore fans aren't exclusively those out there who start and end their Queen fandom with John joining and Freddie dying respectively, only *some* "hardcore" fans aren't be catered to, which amounts to a very vocal minority of the record-buying public.

Queen will do what interests them, as they always have done. After everything they've given us, I think our respect for them should not be solely dependant on how many releases WE get now.

My appreciation for this band does not require a constant influx of new and old material to sustain it. I'm not so selfish as to believe that anything they do which doesn't meet with my approval is somehow tarnishing their legacy or my opinion of them.

I understand that others feel differently.

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Posted: 08 Sep 10, 23:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It is true that the band has so many good concerts that they could just release as it is without any over-dubbing.  There is a term called "unplugged" (hope I have used it in the right context).

Maybe we can give them some ideas for a basis of selection such as:

a.  one or two best per tour

b.  specialty concerts e.g. Kampuchea concert, Budapest concert (first in eastern bloc)

c.  concerts in which the lesser known hits were sung e.g. Need Your Loving Tonight, Body Language, Life is Real

d.  poll from fans (dream on ?)

I think the problem in the band now is that there is no first among equals.

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Posted: 08 Sep 10, 23:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

In addition to concerts, they could also release a CD of the best live performances of the non-hit songs such as Put Out the Fire, Rock It , Need Your Loving Tonight, Body Language, Life is Real etc. They should specify which concert the song was taken from, instead of the puzzle created in Live Killers.

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Posted: 09 Sep 10, 00:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The Springsteen Darkness release, as discussed in another thread, is a unique situation which doesn't apply to Queen, as Queen do not have a lost album of any sort.

Queen actually has 16 original studio albums, the same as Bruce, but that's not accounting for the years of hiatus Queen were on periodically since Freddie's passing. Bruce only recently caught up them, while they were doing solo albums. By 1991, the year of Innuendo (album #14), The Boss had only issued  8 studio albums. If Queen had recorded and released the way Springsteen did, sure, they'd have a vault full of unreleased albums too!

But hey, let's look at what Queen have done equivalent to what is on this release, shall we?

The Boss                                                                        Queen
Disc 1:
The Darkness On The Edge Of Town                      A Night At The Opera 30th Anniversary Edition
(Remastered 4th album)                                            (Remastered 4th album)

Disc 2:
The Promise (LP 1)                                                      A Day At The Races
(Unreleased album of material)                                (RELEASED album of material the band didn't wait 32 years to issue)

Disc 3:
The Promise (LP 2)                                                       News Of The World
(Unreleased album of material)                                (same as above)

                                                                                           Jazz
                                                                                           (Another whole album recorded in the time it took BS to futz around
                                                                                            with Darkness/The Promise)

Disc 4 (DVD):
Making Of...doc                                                               The Making Of A Night At The Opera DVD

Disc 5 (DVD)
New and old Darkness live footage                          Queen Rock Montreal & Live Aid DVD
                                                                                         (arguably not as interesting as the band recording an entire old album
                                                                                         live in 2009, but I chalk that up to Freddie being difficult to work with
                                                                                         these days. Substitute Live In Ukraine if you want NEW instead)

                                                                                          ANATO in full 5.1 DTS Surround, with accompanying video footage
                                                                                          (30th Anniversary release DVD)

Disc 6 (DVD):
Unreleased Darkness Tour Concert                         Live At The Rainbow - 1974
                                                                                          (previously unreleased live concert in a boxed set)

Also interesting to note, The Promise will feature the Rock Version of Racing In The Street. I wonder how close it will sound to Roger's "fast" version from Strange Frontier.

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Posted: 09 Sep 10, 03:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

rhyeking wrote:

Also interesting to note, The Promise will feature the Rock Version of Racing In The Street. I wonder how close it will sound to Roger's "fast" version from Strange Frontier.

////////////////////////////////////

Hi rhyeking ! I´m wondering the same too ! can´t wait listening to Bruce´s version !


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Posted: 10 Sep 10, 00:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

rhyeking wrote:

But hey, let's look at what Queen have done equivalent to what is on this release, shall we?
===========================

Hope you didn't fall off your cloud wildly overreaching like that.  'Promise' is a superfan pleasing release that extensively covers a brief, discrete and intensely creative period in multiple formats. It's new and it's exciting and reflects a respect and appreciation for the art and for the most invested fans. You're all over the map from 1975 to 1985, and virtually every release noted except Box of Trix was a standard/casual fan product, or at least not much more than that.  Bruce has remastered albums, including a 3 disc 30th anniversary edition of 'Born to Run' that included a 'making of', and released multiple concerts as well. Those are the reasonable comparisons to Queen releases, not 'Promise', for which there is no comparable product in any way.

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Posted: 10 Sep 10, 01:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Live At The Rainbow  - really?  A 50-minute compilation full of vocal overdubs that was only available 20 years ago on VHS in very limited quantity is what you're comparing Bruce's latest boxed set to?  And you're trying to justify the lack of unreleased Queen songs put out because Springsteen took three years to finish the follow-up to Born To Run?  Indeed, you're really reaching here.


"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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Posted: 10 Sep 10, 03:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sorry rhyeking - you're talking crap.

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Posted: 10 Sep 10, 09:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but more likely it's just that attempt to give these fanatics some perspective will be met with the knee-jerk response of: "Yeah, but you're wrong an didn't account for [X]...!"

I took a few minutes to analyze what GF calls Bruce's "intense" "creative" period, but if you want a better look at their respective careers, here goes...

Each artists' studio albums are numbered. Queen jump WAY out in front early and consistently with regularly released albums, slowed only by the inconvenient death of Freddie in 1991, after which, Bruce takes15 more years to catch up.

1973
BS: 01) Greetings From Asbury Park, NJ
BS: 02) The Wild, The Innocent & The E-Street Shuffle
01) Queen

1974
02) Queen II
03) Sheer Heart Attack

1975
BS: 03) Born To Run
04) A Night At The Opera

1976
05) A Day At The Races

1977
06) News Of The World

1978
BS: 04) Darkness On The Edge Of Town
07) Jazz

1979
Live Killers

1980
BS: 05) The River
08) The Game
09) Flash Gordon
Queen: Greatest Hits

1982
BS: 06) Nebraska
10) Hot Space

1984
BS: 07) Born In The USA
11) The Works

1985
Live 1975/1985
The Complete Works

1986
12) A Kind Of Magic

1987
BS: 08) Tunnel Of Love
Live Magic

1988
BS: Chimes Of Freedom EP

1989
13) The Miracle
At The Beeb

1990

1991
14) Innuendo
Queen: Greatest Hits II

1992
BS: 09) Human Touch
BS: 10) Lucky Town
Box Of Trix
Live At Wembley ‘86

1993
BS: In Concert/MTV Unplugged
Five Live

1994

1995
BS: Greatest Hits
BS: 11) The Ghost Of Tom Joad
15) Made In Heaven

1996
BS: Blood Brothers EP

1997
Queen Rocks

1998
BS: Tracks (Boxed Set)

1999
BS: 18 Tracks
Queen+: Greatest Hits III

2000

2001
BS: Live In New York City

2002
BS: 12) The Rising

2003
BS: The Essential Bruce Springsteen

2004
Return Of The Champions
Queen On Fire: Live At The Bowl

2005
BS: 13) Devils & Dust

2006
BS: Hammersmith Odeon ‘75
BS: 14) We Shall Overcome – The Seeger Sessions

2007
BS: Live In Dublin
BS: 15) Magic
Queen Rock Montreal & Live Aid

2008
BS: Magic Tour Highlights EP
16) The Cosmos Rocks

2009
BS: 16) Working On A Dream
Live In Ukraine

To give Bruce the benefit of the doubt, I've included his solo albums and his E Street Band albums and excluded Queen's solo material because after all, a four on one contest is hardly fair. That said, Bruce has a pretty unmatched level of output for one man, which impresses me as much as David Bowie's level of output.

Still, because someone brought up The Darkness/Promise comparison, I'll say it again...nice and slow...using simple words:

Queen released their music when they recorded their albums.

Bruce, especially in this case, did not.

That's why Bruce's vault is full of albums of unreleased songs and Queen's is not.

Any other myths you want me to dis-spell?

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Posted: 10 Sep 10, 10:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The comparison is not between the two careers you insufferable, babbling ass.  It's between a worthwhile product that acknowledges devoted fans and the worthiness of the art, and run of the mill products that continually leave devoted fans feeling left out and let down.  Unless you think Queen is only capable of producing Greatest Hits packages and standard concert releases and ANATO 30th from their 20 year history - and if you do you think way less of them than the rest of us - you have no point to make.

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Posted: 10 Sep 10, 11:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

If "fans" looked past their selfishness, they'd see they've been rewarded by the band many times over, without the need for lavishly packaged, overrated box sets (despite having actually issued the very same).

Imagine how much more appreciative one can be without the "What have they done for me lately" attitude.

"...insufferable, babbling ass!" 

That made me laugh out loud. 

Thanks, GF. I'm going to make that my email signature at work.

Awesome.

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Posted: 10 Sep 10, 11:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yeah you do that.  I'll give it 10 minutes before one or two of your loudest coworkers are over apologizing profusely.

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Posted: 10 Sep 10, 11:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

This is an interesting topic. This is my take.
I dont think comparing Springsteen and Queen makes any sense at all.  The perception between the artists are million and million miles apart.  Springsteen has had incredible critical acclaim throughout his career as an artist and a songwriter so he can release reworkings and lost albums and it would be of huge huge interest.  Queen have never had that same critical acclaim and always been dismissed by the media, and never been acclaimed for their songwriting prowess.  So reworkings and demos will never be viewed as the same.  What Queen always have had though is the singles and the hits.  

When Queen release yet another greatest hits package and it spends years and years and years in the charts its hard to argue with that from a financial perspective.  And lets be honest those numerous greatest hits packages allowed them to put Q+PR together in the 1st place and let them play arenas and stadiums around the world, because of the hits that everyone knows. I went to one of those gigs and they played all the hits for everyone.  They didnt play Liar, or Millionaire Waltz for the devoted fans, they just played the hits. And everyone loved it and thats what they wanted to hear. Now when Queen released The Game on DVD A (or whatever) a few years ago that didnt sell very well and Brian May seemed it to be an unworthy exercise as it didnt sell. So much so that this probably wont be repeaated. Now im assuming the "devoted" fans bought that, but when you can keep an album in the charts for years up against a DVDA album that comes and goes before its even released which one would you choose as a business proposition. IMO in the end its about perception and business.  Theres no point putting out anything that wont sell.  All the business strokes that they make have to be broad.  Queen are a huge commercial worldwide entity.  Well those are my musings anyway