Forums > Personal > the pope's visit to the UK?

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lifetimefanofqueen user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 17 Sep 10, 07:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

i'm watching it on the news right now. the pope's visit to the UK.
dose anyone agree with it since there was a resent child abuse rant about it?
personaly i couldnt give a flying monkeys about the pope comeing to the UK since i'm not religious, and its said there are 5 men who have been arrested on threats of terror to the pope.
the pope's visit has been in the news for ages now, but he arrived yesterday, (i think, i dont realy care) 
so, what do u guys think about it? do u agree with it and think its great that the pope has come to the UK? or do u not realy give a fuck? or do you absolutely dissagree with it?

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Posted: 17 Sep 10, 08:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

how long you got coz i could be here all day with this...?


isnt innuendo an italian suppository?

im gonna ride the wild wind!

its_a_hard_life wrote:you nutcase you rule!

joxer replies: but in a nice way :-]

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Posted: 17 Sep 10, 11:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The only thing that I have a problem with is the BBC and CBC covering it.  Public tax dollars shouldn't pay a penny to promote someone who a) endorses misogyny, b) contributes to AIDS deaths worldwide and c) systematically covers up child abuse.  Otherwise he's free to go wherever he wants, no matter how bloody his hands are.


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Posted: 17 Sep 10, 12:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

You guys are talking about the evil Emperor from the Star Wars films, right? That dude is bad for sure.
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs11/i/2006/171/5/7/Emperor_Ratzinger_by_Danvin.jpg


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Posted: 17 Sep 10, 13:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

yes thats egactly what were talking about saif :)

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Posted: 17 Sep 10, 13:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

and also, they showed a little clip from when the pope was giving a speach and he was saying "the only way to happyness is through god"

well

if this "God" brings such "happyness" then why are most wars started from religion then, eh?

and why have there been no scientific discoverys of this "heaven" and this "god" and how did he create the world in 7 days? and how the hell can people trust what other people said thousands and thousands of years ago. its like chineese whispers, it get twisted and changes, were all humans, some are biast, all tell lies, so maby Jesus's disipals were biest and convinced this "God" was real, so spread the word of it and twisted it to make people more interested and actualy give a shit.

if ur gonna tell me God is real then so is Harry Potter

and also, look at 911 in America, that was caused by terrorists who killed thousands because that was part of their religion,
and look at the 77 bombings in london, also caused by terrorists because of religion,

this is why we are at war with afganistan etc.......and why inosent people are dieing trying to sort out this shit!

religion just fucks people up

im sorry if apsolutely hate me now for saying this but there is such a thing as freedom of speach, and there is nothing wrong with shreing ideas,

so if you dont like me the i dont give a flying fuck! i dont spend my life trying to please you!

and i have tryed to get along with EVERYONE on Queenzone

and some people on here have become my bestest friends, some on here are just total dick heads and spend all their time putting people down and makeing them feel even worse than they already are.

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Posted: 17 Sep 10, 14:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH wrote: The only thing that I have a problem with is the BBC and CBC covering it.  Public tax dollars shouldn't pay a penny to promote someone who a) endorses misogyny, b) contributes to AIDS deaths worldwide and c) systematically covers up child abuse.  Otherwise he's free to go wherever he wants, no matter how bloody his hands are.
=================================

I kind of like my public news organization to cover the news.  And like it or not, it's news, in large part because of social issues like the ones you noted. 

Misogyny is a bit strong, to say the least.

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Posted: 17 Sep 10, 17:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

lifetimefanofqueen wrote:

and also, they showed a little clip from when the pope was giving a speach and he was saying "the only way to happyness is through god"

well

if this "God" brings such "happyness" then why are most wars started from religion then, eh?

and why have there been no scientific discoverys of this "heaven" and this "god" and how did he create the world in 7 days? and how the hell can people trust what other people said thousands and thousands of years ago. its like chineese whispers, it get twisted and changes, were all humans, some are biast, all tell lies, so maby Jesus's disipals were biest and convinced this "God" was real, so spread the word of it and twisted it to make people more interested and actualy give a shit.

if ur gonna tell me God is real then so is Harry Potter

and also, look at 911 in America, that was caused by terrorists who killed thousands because that was part of their religion,
and look at the 77 bombings in london, also caused by terrorists because of religion,

this is why we are at war with afganistan etc.......and why inosent people are dieing trying to sort out this shit!

religion just fucks people up

im sorry if apsolutely hate me now for saying this but there is such a thing as freedom of speach, and there is nothing wrong with shreing ideas,

so if you dont like me the i dont give a flying fuck! i dont spend my life trying to please you!

and i have tryed to get along with EVERYONE on Queenzone

and some people on here have become my bestest friends, some on here are just total dick heads and spend all their time putting people down and makeing them feel even worse than they already are.


I find this talk very matured for a thirteen year old.

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Posted: 17 Sep 10, 17:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't really think the Pope has a bumpersticker that says "I break for Altar Boys."

Yes, religions start wars.  Bloody wars.  And most of the time, they're only sorry when they get caught.

But to accuse one person of promoting the spread of AIDS is a bit much, isn't it? 

How then, should the Catholic Church (or any other) go about their business?  It's still a church and it needs to keep moving forward, right?   Most human beings follow some form of organized religion.  If it stops "spreading the word", those people will simply follow another form.  You can't just do away with organized religions because some boy got buggered.

Heck, we've had some guy threatening to burn books all last week and then say "just kidding, never mind."  It's an absolutely crazy, dumb story... but it is news.  I'd like to hear about it.

Yes, your public funds are being used, Sir GH.  (Not that you pay any of that, mind you.)  That's the press' job.  That's why those funds are there in the first place.  To report the news.  Not worry about some Queenzoner being offended because of some shameful act(s) that already happened.   Where was the press then?  If all these priests were boinking boys left and right, how come it took years to find it out?

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Posted: 17 Sep 10, 18:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

So religion starts wars...

Let's look at the biggies over the last 150 years or so -- were they caused by religion?

US Civil War: no
Franco-Prussian War: no
World War One: no
World War 2: no
Korea: no
Vietnam: no
Falklands: no
Iraq no & no

Westerners don't really get involved in religious wars. We prefer fighting over monarchies, money and nationalism. And football.


"With a population of 1.75 million, Northern Ireland should really be a footballing minnow. Instead, they could be better described as the piranhas of the international game" (FIFA.com)
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Posted: 18 Sep 10, 01:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

GratefulFan wrote:

Misogyny is a bit strong, to say the least.


Not at all.  The catholic church sees women as second class citizens.  Women get no say in any church decisions, and they are not allowed to be cardinals, bishops, or priests.  I don't know what you call it, but the word is misogyny.


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Posted: 18 Sep 10, 01:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Micrówave wrote:

That's why those funds are there in the first place.  To report the news.


Yes, of course.  But it's just unfortunate that this kind of person representing this kind of organization makes the news in this day and age.

If all these priests were boinking boys left and right, how come it took years to find it out?


Sexual abuse was incredibly taboo a few decades ago.  Most people wouldn't tell about it out of fear of being marginalized both by society and the people close to them.  To this day, many parents won't believe their kids when they say the priest touched them inappropriately, because they still see clergymen as infallible.  The pope is only appearing to be remorseful now because many people are leaving the religion over the issue.  Anything to keep themselves and their medieval control system alive.

Otherwise, you make fair points overall.  Of course, most people will always need a crutch.  If religion wouldn't be there, something else would be.


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Posted: 18 Sep 10, 03:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

tcc wrote:

lifetimefanofqueen wrote:

and also, they showed a little clip from when the pope was giving a speach and he was saying "the only way to happyness is through god"

well

if this "God" brings such "happyness" then why are most wars started from religion then, eh?

and why have there been no scientific discoverys of this "heaven" and this "god" and how did he create the world in 7 days? and how the hell can people trust what other people said thousands and thousands of years ago. its like chineese whispers, it get twisted and changes, were all humans, some are biast, all tell lies, so maby Jesus's disipals were biest and convinced this "God" was real, so spread the word of it and twisted it to make people more interested and actualy give a shit.

if ur gonna tell me God is real then so is Harry Potter

and also, look at 911 in America, that was caused by terrorists who killed thousands because that was part of their religion,
and look at the 77 bombings in london, also caused by terrorists because of religion,

this is why we are at war with afganistan etc.......and why inosent people are dieing trying to sort out this shit!

religion just fucks people up

im sorry if apsolutely hate me now for saying this but there is such a thing as freedom of speach, and there is nothing wrong with shreing ideas,

so if you dont like me the i dont give a flying fuck! i dont spend my life trying to please you!

and i have tryed to get along with EVERYONE on Queenzone

and some people on here have become my bestest friends, some on here are just total dick heads and spend all their time putting people down and makeing them feel even worse than they already are.

I find this talk very matured for a thirteen year old.

why thank you :)

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Posted: 18 Sep 10, 11:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH wrote:

Sexual abuse was incredibly taboo a few decades ago.  Most people wouldn't tell about it out of fear of being marginalized both by society and the people close to them.  To this day, many parents won't believe their kids when they say the priest touched them inappropriately, because they still see clergymen as infallible.  The pope is only appearing to be remorseful now because many people are leaving the religion over the issue.  Anything to keep themselves and their medieval control system alive.

Otherwise, you make fair points overall.  Of course, most people will always need a crutch.  If religion wouldn't be there, something else would be. ======================================

OMFG Bob.  You're talking straight out your ass, and I know you know that, because I had a previous conversation with you about the some of the misperceptions surrounding the history of the abuse scandal.  Yet you're happy to continue rattling off absolute nonsense. To repeat: there isn't and never has been a greater risk of being molested by a Catholic clergy member than a clergy member of any other faith.  The vast, vast majority of the abuses that have caused this moral panic over the Catholic Church occurred in the 60's and 70's, with a sharp drop beginning in the 1980's.  They are in the past, not being rained down on present day children who aren't believed by their parents!  You're completely and totally making that up.  Why anybody would actively court and spread that kind of ignorance is beyond me.  The failure of the church was, and in some cases still is, the failure to turn over past abusers to the civil authorities once discovered,  and in enacting a strategy  that lobbies victims for secrecy.  That is morally, socially and legally unacceptable, and pressure needs to continue be applied to sweep this kind of response from the Church away forever.  Much work has been done, more needs to come. 

Incidentally, there were actually less cases of pedophilia in the Catholic Church than in the general population.  Priests just didn't and don't have access to small children the way family members or school personnel do.  The victims of Catholic Priests were more likely to be adolescent males.   This is worse in a way in my mind because there is some element of 'consent' that the victims torture themselves over for years. To have to carry around the burden of shame for years that sometimes stretch into decades only to be lobbied to forget about it once it's out in the light is shameful.  That culture needs to end.

I'm Catholic.  Even though I'm in a years long phase where I'm not really practicing in any significant way, that remains meaningful to me.  It's just a part of who I am, and in my world it speaks to that.  It means I probably went to particular schools, and had a particular set of experiences that can be instantly communicated and shared with others with the simple words "I'm Catholic".  It ties me to my personal history, to my family, and to the country across the ocean from which it was inherited.  Those things are a source of meaning and pride to me, not some kind of 'crutch'.  You clearly don't have the first clue about why a lot of people embrace their faith.

The Church does indeed deserve strong criticism on the abuse issue and you're welcome to your opinion. But in spreading nonsense you're being pretty abusive and irresponsible yourself.

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Posted: 18 Sep 10, 12:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH wrote: GratefulFan wrote:

Misogyny is a bit strong, to say the least.

Not at all.  The catholic church sees women as second class citizens.  Women get no say in any church decisions, and they are not allowed to be cardinals, bishops, or priests.  I don't know what you call it, but the word is misogyny.
=============================

Orthodox religions across the board don't ordain women as clergy.  Nobody should ever be denied an opportunity based on something like their gender, and those who feel demeaned or excluded by that have my sympathy, respect and support. That said, it would be a mistake to assume that this is the experience of all or even most women in their respective faiths or in the larger world that still favours men in positions of influence and power.  There are now several faiths that accommodate women who seek these kinds of leadership positions, yet women are not in fact leaving orthodox religions in droves despite decades of a social movement that has largely successfully sought to embed the sense of freedom, choice and opportunity in every institution and in the heart and mind of every girl and woman. 

Perhaps it's a little more 'misogynistic' to feel women are in need of your rescue when in fact most are exercising choice and seeking out roles that are fulfilling to them.  Because of the gains society has made women may seek power, or they may not. We have influence in society and in our everyday lives either way. I am nothing less than a completely equal person, and though life still isn't perfect for women with that knowledge I'm able to enjoy and appreciate men in leadership roles for which there is often a natural affininty.   I like listening to men.  I like listening to them speak and sing and be good at what they do. I like looking at them.  I find men inspiring, and though they sure can gut you one on one in love, they're an awesome gender overall.  Is that OK with you Bob, or do I need to be wrestling men for some pulpit or big leather chair to be equal?

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Posted: 18 Sep 10, 13:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I find some of the pictures a little...unsettling.

"It looks nice, but I won't go a penny over 45 unless you throw in a choirboy or two"

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_GzQnzaF4k-o/TJSnJQRFLjI/AAAAAAAALXg/h6FM3vLy37I/s640/wes+a.JPG

I didn't know he could do that outside Holland

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/1/1/1262355625344/Pope-mass-new-year-001.jpg


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Posted: 18 Sep 10, 15:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

ThomasQuinn wrote: I find some of the pictures a little...unsettling.

I didn't know he could do that outside Holland

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/1/1/1262355625344/Pope-mass-new-year-001.jpg
============================

ROFL!

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Posted: 18 Sep 10, 15:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

ThomasQuinn wrote:

"It looks nice, but I won't go a penny over 45 unless you throw in a choirboy or two"

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_GzQnzaF4k-o/TJSnJQRFLjI/AAAAAAAALXg/h6FM3vLy37I/s640/wes+a.JPG
===========================

"Leiden U is a known diploma mill"

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Posted: 19 Sep 10, 14:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

GratefulFan wrote: ThomasQuinn wrote:

"It looks nice, but I won't go a penny over 45 unless you throw in a choirboy or two"

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_GzQnzaF4k-o/TJSnJQRFLjI/AAAAAAAALXg/h6FM3vLy37I/s640/wes+a.JPG
===========================

"Leiden U is a known diploma mill"

======

Errm, where did that come from, and what in the name of bob are you talking about?


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Posted: 19 Sep 10, 23:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

GratefulFan wrote:

They are in the past, not being rained down on present day children who aren't believed by their parents!  You're completely and totally making that up.


You can't possibly speak for every single family and know unequivocally that there still aren't pious parents who reject their kids' horror stories out of blind faith.  From personal experience, I know they still exist.

Those things are a source of meaning and pride to me, not some kind of 'crutch'. It means I probably went to particular schools, and had a particular set of experiences that can be instantly communicated and shared with others with the simple words "I'm Catholic".


To me it sounds like you're saying "I used to be catholic," or "I used to do catholic things."  Thus it definitely isn't a crutch for you.  If I stopped playing baseball 15 years ago, I wouldn't call myself a baseball player.  But hey, to each their own.

You clearly don't have the first clue about why a lot of people embrace their faith.


I may not be an expert, but I certainly do know a thing or two about the psychology of belief vs evidence.  Most people feel the need to believe in something outside of themselves, and most of them grab onto a religion, usually because they were raised to.  One cannot deny that most religious people rely on something outside of themselves to provide answers to questions or solutions to situations they feel they cannot create themselves.  To me, the opposite of self-sufficiency is a crutch.  If anyone wants to attach positive or negative connotations to either term, that's their choice.  I'm just defining the two styles of thinking without pledging allegiance or having any emotional connection to either side.

As for your other points, I wasn't suggesting that child abuse didn't occur in other faiths, nor did I suggest that child abuse only occurred in churches.  Not sure why you felt the need to get so defensive..


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