Forums > Queen - General Discussion > DRUM MACHINE

forum rss feed
Author

queen79luca user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 179 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 30 Sep 10, 08:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

We know that in the albums AKOM, TM and Innuendo at least a lot of work of the drums were done not by Roger , but by a drum machine.

It was in the same in the first albums or what we hear it s just Roger's work?

rhyeking user not visiting Queenzone.com
rhyeking
Royalty: 1566 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 30 Sep 10, 09:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm sure more musically trained people can give a better answer, but there is difference between drum machines and using electronic drums. I know Queen have used programmed drums on several tracks ("I Can't Live With You" and "Thank God It's Christmas", to name two). Electronic drums are just drums, but you can program the sounds they produce, to get weird, funky sounds, or just other percussion sounds, like bongos or steel drums or whatever. You still need someone to actually play the drums.

queen79luca user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 179 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 30 Sep 10, 10:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Ok, this is a good answer, but still a part of it.

In the first albums its just Roger play a normal drum kit, being recorded of course, what we hear as final result?

cmsdrums user not visiting Queenzone.com
cmsdrums
Deity: 2945 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 30 Sep 10, 14:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm sure someone more knowledgable than me can advise (Sebastian), but I'd say that all the drums were real acoustic drums up to and including News of the World.

To my ears, Jazz features the first use of non- acoustic drums, and utlilises electronic drums, but these are still played 'live' by Roger and not programmed - certainly to my ears Fun It uses completely electronic drums (and possibly no acoustic cymbals at all too?).

after that, the technology of the day became more and more used on Queen drums tracks

Examples that spring to mind are;

The Game: - Dragon Attack IS Roger playing, but only a couple of bars which are then copied and looped over and over. 
Hot Space :- Features both electronic drums played 'live' and pre-programmed drums from a computer (as well as acoustic drums too).
The Works:  Awful acoustic  drum sound(!), and some electronic toms on Keep Passing The Open Windows and Hammer To Fall, and the obvious and intentional use of drum machines changing into acoustic drums on Machines (..or Back To Humans)
(interestingly the distinction of electronic vs acoustic drums  is a lot clearer and effective on the remastered albums on tracks like Staying Power and Machines...)

A Kind Of Magic - very sterile drum sound (to me) all round on this album and lots of programmed drums on tracks like One Year of Love, A Kind Of Magic and Pain Is So Close To Pleasure
The Miracle:-  Probably utilises the best mixes of electronic vs acoustic drums. Drum machines are obviously a useful tool for writing, but the previous few albums had seen the band stick with these (lazy?) at the expense of having Roger re-play programmed parts.  Invisible Man and Party for example actually feature a lot of acoustic drums, but peole tend to thik they don't simply because of the style of song they are.  Whilst these two tracks do contain a lot of programming, this is not at the expense of acoustic drums ,and they both compliment the songs.
Innuendo:- Tracks like All God's People and These Are the Days Of Our Lives feature mostly programmed drum and percusson tracks, although the former has some nice real drums by Roger during the heavier '12 blues' type section.  I think Inneundo features probably the most instances of triggered drums sounds whereby Roger played a lot of parts, but the acoustic sounds were replaced by an electronically generated audio sample (Quite common nowadays with most 'rock' bands)
Made In Heaven:- Mostly acoustic and a nice 'room' type drum sound.

Whilst this is by no means a track by track analysis, it hopefully gives a general overview of how the drums worked throughout the years. 

I think Queen were effectively a good 'barometer' of the studio technology of the times throughout their recordings - whatever technologies were the latest thing, you can guarantee that Queen used them (sometimes just 'dabbling' ,sometimes more heavily).

Hope this is of help

queen79luca user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 179 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 30 Sep 10, 15:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

That s great "cms drums" !
It really helps.
Thanks!

ploughman user not visiting Queenzone.com

Champion: 90 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Sep 15, 02:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I have grown more and more fond of The Miracle album. David Richards did a beutiful job on it production wise.

It was the last album done on the analog tape and they still used a lots of programmed stuff there.

Lots of the songs have acoustic drums on them , but the programming on the top of it has been done really cleverly.

I Want it All for example: Basic acoustic drum beat but on the top of the bassdrum and snare drum there are samples and gated reverb + during the choruses a programmed shaker and a tambourine.

Scandal must be my favourite when talking about production. Again the drums are real, but there are sampling and of course these arpeggiator rythms (and furthermore: vibraslap, effected cymbals, varisped guitar chords etc). The clever thing is that on the every 4th snare drum there is a different triggered (deeper, more reverb) snare sound on the top of that.


Listening to AKOM again: there arent really many live drumtracks! One Vision and Princess of the Universe for sure, but the rest of them. Even Who Wants to live forever sound s little bit programmed, but might be real.

On Innuendo there is more programming than on The Miracle. I cant Live With You beaing the worst example. The drums there are only machines. The title track and Show Must Go On however are totally livedrums. Recorded at the Casino Hall in Montreaux, hence the huge reverb.


"I'd love to see 70's Queen concerts on DVD!"
Biggus Dickus user not visiting Queenzone.com
Biggus Dickus
Bohemian: 385 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Sep 15, 02:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The show must go on also has an interesing change in snare sound going back and forth in the 'my soul is painted...' section.

ploughman user not visiting Queenzone.com

Champion: 90 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Sep 15, 15:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Biggus Dickus wrote:

The show must go on also has an interesing change in snare sound going back and forth in the 'my soul is painted...' section.


That is just plain flanger-effect. I think the flanger is only on overhead channels so part of the snare sound aswell as all the cymbals are affected by this.




"I'd love to see 70's Queen concerts on DVD!"
Biggus Dickus user not visiting Queenzone.com
Biggus Dickus
Bohemian: 385 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Sep 15, 23:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

ploughman wrote:

Biggus Dickus wrote:

The show must go on also has an interesing change in snare sound going back and forth in the 'my soul is painted...' section.


That is just plain flanger-effect. I think the flanger is only on overhead channels so part of the snare sound aswell as all the cymbals are affected by this.



Yeah, I didn't think it was a drum machine. Thanks for the detailed info.

Sebastian user is on Queenzone.com
Sebastian
Deity: 6243 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 30 Sep 15, 06:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As far as I know, 'Show Must Go On' was recorded in London, not Montreux. Moreover, it does have programmed drums alongside the live ones, as stems confirm.


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
cmsdrums user not visiting Queenzone.com
cmsdrums
Deity: 2945 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 30 Sep 15, 06:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:

As far as I know, 'Show Must Go On' was recorded in London, not Montreux. Moreover, it does have programmed drums alongside the live ones, as stems confirm.


Hi Seb. I haven't got the stems for this so can you say which section have got programmed drums please? Thanks. (I think it's a ridiculous decision for them to do that, on a track that suits Roger's sound and playing perfectly).

ploughman user not visiting Queenzone.com

Champion: 90 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 02 Oct 15, 00:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:

As far as I know, 'Show Must Go On' was recorded in London, not Montreux. Moreover, it does have programmed drums alongside the live ones, as stems confirm.


On Show Must go On I can only hear the "sampled" bassdrum and snare drum. No programing that I'm aware of?

I Want it All has a shaker and tambourine programmed during choruses.




"I'd love to see 70's Queen concerts on DVD!"
Sebastian user is on Queenzone.com
Sebastian
Deity: 6243 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 02 Oct 15, 05:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

A short sample (the beginning of the second chorus). First, you can hear Roger's acoustic drums. Then, Brian's (I assume, or perhaps David's) programmed drums. Then, both of them together.

Attachment: 2015102127474955.mp3 533 KB
This has been downloaded 30 time(s).



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
Sebastian user is on Queenzone.com
Sebastian
Deity: 6243 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 02 Oct 15, 05:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Just the acoustic kit all throughout.

Attachment: 2015102819498281.mp3 3 MB
This has been downloaded 29 time(s).



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
Sebastian user is on Queenzone.com
Sebastian
Deity: 6243 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 02 Oct 15, 05:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Just the digital parts all throughout.

Attachment: 2015102534011718.mp3 3 MB
This has been downloaded 27 time(s).



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
Sebastian user is on Queenzone.com
Sebastian
Deity: 6243 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 02 Oct 15, 05:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

And now both real and programmed for the entire song.

Attachment: 2015102223790946.mp3 3 MB
This has been downloaded 17 time(s).



John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
cmsdrums user not visiting Queenzone.com
cmsdrums
Deity: 2945 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 02 Oct 15, 06:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Cheers Seb - I look forward to checking these out later!

Fireplace user is on Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 880 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 03 Oct 15, 17:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Seb, could you give me a clue as to what drum machine was used on Machines/Back To Humans?

Sebastian user is on Queenzone.com
Sebastian
Deity: 6243 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 03 Oct 15, 17:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm assuming Linn LM-1 for 'Hot Space', LinnDrum (aka Linn LM-2) for 'The Works', Linn 9000 for 'Magic' and 'The Miracle' and the drum sounds from the Korg M1 for 'Innuendo' and perhaps 'Made in Heaven' (at least 'Mother Love').


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
Fireplace user is on Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 880 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 03 Oct 15, 17:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:

I'm assuming Linn LM-1 for 'Hot Space', LinnDrum (aka Linn LM-2) for 'The Works', Linn 9000 for 'Magic' and 'The Miracle' and the drum sounds from the Korg M1 for 'Innuendo' and perhaps 'Made in Heaven' (at least 'Mother Love').


Thanks, you're a gem!