Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Do these demos exist?

forum rss feed
Author

Jam Monkey user not visiting Queenzone.com
Jam Monkey
Bohemian: 664 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 27 Oct 10, 14:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As I've mentioned here I am trying to put together an up to date and accurate guide to unreleased Queen recordings. While I am able to do about 90% of this myself I do some help with some tracks I've heard of over the year, but that aren't in my collection. Therefore I would like to know if anyone has any information on these tracks. It is possible these exsist, or maybe there just rummours, but to make my guide as accurate as possible I would like your help.

If you don't wish to post publically please contact me at jam_monkey@hotmail.com, and any information will be treated confidentially. I will be sharing information about 10 uncirculated recordings in my collection, and it would be nice if others could do the same.

As well as these tracks I'd also like to hear of any uncirculated demos not on this list. Thanks.

Rock n’ Roll Medley
Hangman
I Do Like To Be Beside The Seaside
Batteries Not Included
Play The Game (With Andy Gibb)
Whipping Boy
Is This The World We Created (Piano Version)
Love Kills (Queen Version)
There Must Be More To Life Than This (Queen Version)
Man On Fire (Queen Version)
Heaven For Everyone (Queen Version)
Friends In Pain
Brother Of Mine
Assassin
Freedom Train (Queen Version)
Say It’s Not True (Original Version)

Convention Recordings:
You Take My Breath Away
Fight From The Inside
Dragon Attack
Man Made Paradise
Party
The Invisible Man
Breakthru
Rain Must Fall (Full Version)
Too Much Love Will Kill You
Headlong
Ride The Wild Wind
Face It Alone (Full Version)


Contact me, I'm no Darth Vader: jam_monkey@hotmail.com
rhyeking user not visiting Queenzone.com
rhyeking
Royalty: 1566 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 27 Oct 10, 16:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Jam Monkey wrote: As well as these tracks I'd also like to hear of any uncirculated demos not on this list. Thanks.

Rhyeking adds: I may be wrong, but off the top of my head, here's what I've read...

Rock n’ Roll Medley = an acetate has been reported, presumably QPL has a copy now
Hangman = same as above
I Do Like To Be Beside The Seaside = I thought they only recorded the bit for SSOR
Batteries Not Included
Play The Game (With Andy Gibb) = rumored to exist since at least 1995
Whipping Boy = Could be "I Go Crazy", but no one seems to know
Is This The World We Created (Piano Version) = probably in the vault on the master tape
Love Kills (Queen Version) = Confirmed in the FM boxed set, started as a Queen demo, finished by Freddie (retaining B&R's work)
There Must Be More To Life Than This (Queen Version) = also confirmed in the FM boxed set
Man On Fire (Queen Version) = As with "Whipping Boy" only reported on the infamous cassette sleeve found in a shoe box
Heaven For Everyone (Queen Version)
Friends In Pain = I have my doubts about this song ever existing, as mentioned in another thread
Brother Of Mine
Assassin
Freedom Train (Queen Version)
Say It’s Not True (Original Version) = There was a version recorded for the 46664 phone-in offer thing. It hasn't surfaced as far as I know

GinjaNinja user not visiting Queenzone.com
GinjaNinja
Bohemian: 654 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 27 Oct 10, 18:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think the rumour of "Play The Game (With Andy Gibb)" probably stems from the Spring 1980 Fan Club Magazine.

In a section about the upcoming album, it says "Staying at the same hotel in Germany were Andy Gibb and Leif Garrat and so the boys invited them to visit the studio during recording. The band were putting the finishing touches to a backing track when Freddie insisted that Andy Gibb sing with them. The track, as yet untitled, is one of Freddie's compositions and he was very impressed with Andy's voice and was heard to remark how good it was."

By this time, "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" had already been released as a single. This can mean that Andy recorded on "Play The Game" or "Don't Try Suicide", the former being more likely, as I can't imagine a member of the Bee Gees singing along to the latter! It could also have been a track which didn't end up on the album, but this is unlikely if they were putting the finishing touches to it.

As for the others, I have no idea!


Property Of Queen Productions...
GinjaNinja user not visiting Queenzone.com
GinjaNinja
Bohemian: 654 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 27 Oct 10, 18:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

These sites have very little bits of information about some of the tracks, whether they are true or not is another matter however.

http://www.ultimatequeen.co.uk/Songs/unreleasedqueen.htm

http://www.ultimatequeen.co.uk/Songs/queendemos1.htm

http://www.ultimatequeen.co.uk/Songs/queendemos2.htm

QueenVault has some information about a few of the convention demos.

http://www.queenvault.com/


Property Of Queen Productions...
GinjaNinja user not visiting Queenzone.com
GinjaNinja
Bohemian: 654 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 27 Oct 10, 18:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sorry for the triple post, but I've just been delving into my memory banks.

Rock n’ Roll Medley - A one sided 10" Trident Acetate. Pressed around the same time as Hangman.
Hangman - A one sided 10" Trident Acetate. Pressed around the same time as Rock n' Roll Medley.
I Do Like To Be Beside The Seaside - Recorded during the SHA sessions, intended by Freddie to open the album.
Batteries Not Included - Rumoured to be from the NOTW sessions.
Play The Game (With Andy Gibb) - See my above post.
Whipping Boy - I seem to recall this being an early title for I Go Crazy, but don't quote me on that one! Hot Space sessions? Also part of an early tracklisting for The Works.
Is This The World We Created (Piano Version) - A piano track was reportedly recorded, but was subsequently lost.
Love Kills (Queen Version) - The Works Sessions?
There Must Be More To Life Than This (Queen Version) - The Works Sessions?
Man On Fire (Queen Version) - Part of an early tracklisting for The Works.
Heaven For Everyone (Queen Version) - Magic Sessions?
Friends In Pain - Magic Sessions? This is purely a guess, but could it have had something to do with FWBF or PISCTP before Freddie came and helped John with them?
Brother Of Mine - Never heard of this one.
Assassin - Rumoured to be an early demo of Innuendo.
Freedom Train (Queen Version) - Innuendo Sessions

A lot of this information comes from posts and articles by John S. Stuart. (I think!) Some of it may just be rumour.


Property Of Queen Productions...
Jam Monkey user not visiting Queenzone.com
Jam Monkey
Bohemian: 664 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 28 Oct 10, 04:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks alot for this information, this gives me some interesting ideas to pursue.

I hadn't heard of the Andy Gibb rummour comming from the fan club magazine, goor memmory!


Contact me, I'm no Darth Vader: jam_monkey@hotmail.com
Arnaldo "Ogre-" Silveira user not visiting Queenzone.com
Arnaldo
Deity: 2256 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 28 Oct 10, 06:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hi, Jam Monkey.

Thank you for your contribution to the community. You are doing a great job making demos available in a centralized and organized way. This thread is also of great importance. BTW, is there a reason why you did not include Let Me Live (With Rod Stewart) and Victory (With Michael Jackson)? I may have missed some information that was shared here before, but I don't remember those being confirmed.

Cheers,

Ogre-


Keep Passing the Open Windows
Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
Sebastian
Deity: 6327 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 28 Oct 10, 06:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

> This can mean that Andy recorded on "Play The Game" or "Don't Try Suicide", the former being more likely, as I can't imagine a member of the Bee Gees singing along to the latter!

Technically, Andy wasn't a member of the Bee Gees, but a solo artist right from the start. Moreover, there's not a rule against pop singers doing backing vocals on a pop song anyway.

> It could also have been a track which didn't end up on the album, but this is unlikely if they were putting the finishing touches to it.

They were putting finishing touches to the backing track... it could've been a song they had intended to go on the album but later on got discarded if they didn't like the overdubs or if they felt there wasn't enough space, etc, etc, etc.

To sum up: it could have easily been Play the Game, it could've just as easily been something else (including DTS).

> I Do Like To Be Beside The Seaside - Recorded during the SHA sessions, intended by Freddie to open the album.

Have you got any source for this info?

> Love Kills (Queen Version) - The Works Sessions?

What would be the difference between the Queen version and the one Fred released? Just the bass?

> Heaven For Everyone (Queen Version) - Magic Sessions?

Roger mentioned (AG commentary) that he first recorded it with The Cross (which is when Fred visited them and sang it), and many years later reworked it with Brian for MIH. So, unless Roger's memory failed (while it's positively eidetic compared to Brian's, it's not perfect [nobody's is]), the whole 'Magic' thing is just an urban legend.

> Friends In Pain - Magic Sessions? This is purely a guess, but could it have had something to do with FWBF or PISCTP before Freddie came and helped John with them?

It could've also been the other way around: started by Fred and called like that before John came and lent a hand.


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
Holly2003 user not visiting Queenzone.com
Hot Buttered Soul
Holly2003
Deity: 4706 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 28 Oct 10, 07:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

If Assassin is definitely a song title from the Innuendo era, it's possible, given the common theme, it was nothing more than a working title for The Hitman.

Of course, if it exists, it's also possible it's a different song entirely.


"With a population of 1.75 million, Northern Ireland should really be a footballing minnow. Instead, they could be better described as the piranhas of the international game" (FIFA.com)
GinjaNinja user not visiting Queenzone.com
GinjaNinja
Bohemian: 654 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 28 Oct 10, 10:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

@Sebastian:

1. I think I read about "I Do Like To Be..." in one of JSS's "Ultimate Collection" threads, it's also mentioned in Queenpedia's "Sessionography".

2. Love Kills (Queen Version) is actually a Roger Taylor track from The Works Sessions, completely unrelated to Freddie's solo song. This information again comes from one of JSS's "Ultimate Collection" threads (which I just took another look at).

3. Heaven For Everyone (Queen Version) was apparently started in 1986 for the Highlander movie, but ultimately left until Roger's "The Cross" sessions ins 1987. Info again from JSS.

4. Friends In Pain sounds more like a John title to me, but that's purely my opinion. It could easily have been started by either of them, or could have been something completely different!

I'm not stating any of this as solid facts btw, just posting things I have read and remember from different places.


Property Of Queen Productions...
FriedChicken user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 10641 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 28 Oct 10, 10:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Some Spanish fan on Queenzone about 10 years ago claimed to have a Miracle era song called 'Brother of Mine'
He was unable/unwilling to provide us with proof, which makes it porkies in my book.

Also stuff like 'Woe', 'City of the Fireflies' and other names that popped up on Wikipedia over the last couple of years seem bogus to me. If stuff like this existed it would seem logical that those names would appear here first, as there are some really high-profile collectors on here.


"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



(Genesis 1:1)
GinjaNinja user not visiting Queenzone.com
GinjaNinja
Bohemian: 654 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 28 Oct 10, 10:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Those rumoured demos have such brilliant titles! Particularly the purported "Deep Ridge" and "Surrender To The City".

I seem to recall some of them being mentioned in Mick Rock's "Killer Queen" book. It's possible that some of these were just working titles, akin to "Wooly Hat (Back Chat)" and "Psycho Legs (Death On Two Legs)".


Property Of Queen Productions...
Jam Monkey user not visiting Queenzone.com
Jam Monkey
Bohemian: 664 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 28 Oct 10, 12:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Ogre - Thanks for reminding me about the Rod Stewart track. I haven't included Victory because at this stage I am just concentrating on Queen, solo demos will follow if this goes well.


Contact me, I'm no Darth Vader: jam_monkey@hotmail.com
rhyeking user not visiting Queenzone.com
rhyeking
Royalty: 1566 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 28 Oct 10, 21:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Some more thoughts, in no particular order...

"Seaside": First I heard of it was this thread. GinjaNinja, I think, said it was reported to have been planned to start SHA. It's plausible and on the actual album, someone is heard whistling "Seaside" during the Carnival music. And no, this whistling is NOT on the original sound effect track Queen used. Maybe the original plan was to have "Seaside", but they changed it to the Carnival music.

"Friends In Pain": I still think this is a myth, with someone figuring the two JD collaborations must have begun as one demo track, because three JD tracks on an album seems to come without precedent (the most he'd previously had was two). I do believe it was confirmed (either by Freddie or John) that John started both FWBF and PISCTP and Freddie helped finish them.

"Heaven": I agree with Sebastian, I think a proper Queen demo is wishful thinking. At most, a Roger demo may exist from that era, but I don't think Freddie and/or Queen got near it. All anecdotal evidence points to Freddie first singing it during the Shove It sessions.

"Love Kills": Not sure how different the Queen early versions would be compared to the finished Freddie version. It could have been rockier/heavier or very similar. "Love Kills" sounds a lot like "Radio Ga Ga", which could be coincidence or because of Roger's programmed drums. "Love Kills", to me, also sounds a lot like the Mr. Bad Guy material, with layered percussion and synths. However, the Strange Frontier material is stylistically in a similar place at The Works, "Love Kills" and Mr. Bad Guy (which only lacks the sci-fi themes). Since the projects all seem to be feeding off each other at the time, it's hard to say. It's part of why this period fascinates me.

GinjaNinja user not visiting Queenzone.com
GinjaNinja
Bohemian: 654 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Oct 10, 03:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Your "Friends In Pain" explanation sounds very plausible, I forgot John wrote more songs on that album, but he did have the help of Freddie with them though. But, as we know (for certain) nothing but the name and era, we can say it probably doesn't exist.

Regarding "Seaside", it may just be what they recorded for SSOR before bouncing and mixing it in. Or, if it was intended to start SHA, Freddie probably had to compromise with Brian, and relented into just having the whistle.


Property Of Queen Productions...
Shaving Foamasi user not visiting Queenzone.com
Shaving Foamasi
Rocker: 24 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Oct 10, 04:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I see the "Seaside" thing as being related to Freddie's apparent wish to have Seven Seas of Rhye... finsihing the first album and starting the second.  Either he wanted to get his way so that "Seaside" finished Queen II and started SHA or someone made it up - confusing it with the SSOR story...

Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
Sebastian
Deity: 6327 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Oct 10, 06:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

@ FWBF & PISCTP: I think the whole thing about John starting both songs and having Fred helping him out with them comes from Phoebe's book, which IMO is not quite the most reliable source when it comes to those details.

@ Assassin: I agree with Holly. It could've also been something lost in translation (e.g. if you translate 'hitman' to Japanese and then translate the resulting word [??] to English, you'll wind up with 'assassin' or 'killer' - at least in my dictionary, but via Babelfish it doesn't happen and the term is different [???] but incorrect). As a side note, if you use Babelfish and translate 'master stroke' to Greek and then back to English you get 'gentleman blow'... that'd be a lousy title IMO.

@ Fly By Night, Deep Ridge and Surrender to the City: Last year, Brian claimed in his website that none of those would have existed. However, you know the thing about Dr May's memory (he also claimed to never have played a V on stage, It's Late on stage, and suggested Freddie didn't use Steinway pianos).

@ Heaven for Everyone: Indeed, serveral (not completely related) sources point at Freddie working on it when visiting The Cross (or running into them at one of the studios used for both that and Barcelona), having some drinks and singing it, probably not being intended for release (with his voice) at first, but more for the sake of it. If so, it was definitely not for AKOM. Roger's claim also points at that, and while his memory isn't perfect (nobody's is), it's positively eidetic compared to Brian's.

@ Shaving Foamasi: I couldn't agree more.


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
cmsdrums user not visiting Queenzone.com
cmsdrums
Deity: 3036 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Oct 10, 07:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I clearly recall Roger saying in interviews that Heaven For Everyone was written originally for Joan Armatrading to sing (though whether still to go on The Cross LP but with guest vocalist, or in her own right I don't know). 

I thought that it was only after she said that she didn't like it (which probably confirms there is a Roger demo that he played her), that Freddie was brought in for the lead vocals.  In light of this, my belief is that it was never a Queen song.

Does anyone know if Freddie recorded his vocal before Roger's version (as per the single & US LP version), or was it the other way around?  I've always thought that Roger's vocal was done first, because the arrangement, instrumentation and mix of that version always sounds a bit less polished and finished than the Freddie version on the UK Shove It! album.

Any thoughts?

Cheers

GinjaNinja user not visiting Queenzone.com
GinjaNinja
Bohemian: 654 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Oct 10, 07:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Found a bit of info about these convention demos, may not be completely accurate.

Convention Recordings:
You Take My Breath Away - Freddie on piano and vocals, in the studio with Mike Stone.
Fight From The Inside - Similar to the album version, but a different vocal take with slightly altered lyrics.
Dragon Attack - Mostly instrumental with the bass loop, some guitar and vocal shouts. Maybe from the Jazz Sessions
Man Made Paradise - Short (50 second) demo, very similar to Freddie's solo demos (which were not included in the solo collection for this reason).
Party - Standalone version without the segue into Khashoggi's Ship.
The Invisible Man - Roger's guide vocal, early version.
Breakthru - Quick and heavy instrumental with a pounding drumbeat.
Rain Must Fall (Full Version) - ? Is this a longer version of the one circulating that is cut at the end?
Too Much Love Will Kill You - Brian's guide vocal with Freddie singing over the top.
Headlong - Bass, Drum machine and Brian's guide vocal. 5 mins. I think this is the same as the one we have but without Freddie.
Ride The Wild Wind - Instrumental demo with lots of drums.
Face It Alone (Full Version) - 3 different parts totalling 10 minutes.


Property Of Queen Productions...
FriedChicken user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 10641 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Oct 10, 14:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

About the Rain Must Fall version that is going round, I believe Greg said it was a version where all the vocals recorded for the track were put in the mix. For some reason I find that hard to believe. The formants of some of the vocals sound shifted, like they were put through a vocoder and have the original vocal line mapped to the keys played on a keyboard.

I believe the intro of Driven by You was also done that way.

Can anyone with more experience with vocoders and similar effects confirm this?


"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



(Genesis 1:1)