Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Why I think Montreal is overdubbed

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Bad Seed user not visiting Queenzone.com
Bad Seed
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Posted: 04 Nov 10, 14:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I believe that Rock Montreal has many vocal overdubs. NIH, JR, and the rock section of Bo Rap being the main culprits. Jailhouse Rock is easy to compare as we have the audience recording. However NIH and BR are both from the second night with no audience recording to compare.

On the Rock Montreal version of NIH, I believe from the first  'Made me live again' to the vocal improv, Freddies vocal is overdubbed.
If you listen carefully not only does the tone change slightly, Freddie suddenly sings with way more aggression. On NO other version of NIH will you find Freddie singing the song like this. That was enough to convince me that it was overdubbed.

After listening to the original WWRY today it is noticeable that the 'aggressive' vocal starts a line earlier 'Just a new man' on this version! Compare and you'll hear clearly. Can anyone explain this?

Move on to BR and suddenly that vocal style re-appears!

Listen and discuss!

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Posted: 04 Nov 10, 14:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

[quote] After listening to the original WWRY today it is noticeable that the
'aggressive' vocal starts a line earlier 'Just a new man' on this
version! Compare and you'll hear clearly. Can anyone explain this?[/quote]
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It’s an almost Completely different mix of the performances from both nights, which explains the differences, rock montreals audio was built from the ground up, so in that spot the line came from the other night.
We can’t 100% confirm overdubs without both nights audience recordings.
I do know one thing, in the original, the main vocals move about so badly between nights it gives the feeling of sea sickness. It’s terrible; they are all over the place.

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Posted: 04 Nov 10, 14:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Understand what your saying, but completely disagree about the vocal coming from the other night. Explain Jailhouse Rock? It was only performed on the first night.

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Posted: 04 Nov 10, 15:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Explain Jailhouse Rock? It was only performed on the first night.
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I didn't deny overdubs, but i think most of the changes are to do with the better mix.

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Posted: 04 Nov 10, 22:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Jailhouse Rock was played on both nights.


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Posted: 05 Nov 10, 00:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

You have this all incorrect. There are absolutely no dubs on Montreal. The reason why he may sound different in parts is because they switched nights. You also got it wrong when saying the recording of BR is from the second night. It is from the first night. The only reason why it sounds like it may be an overdub is because the performance is nearly flawless and so spectacular that it could seem to good to be true. However, this is no shock because it was late 1981 and Freddie's voice was known for being in amazing shape then.

Here's a guide to overdubs on Queen concerts:

Rainbow 1974: Overdubs on background vocals on some songs
Hammersmith 1975: No overdubs
Hyde Park 1976: No overdubs
Earls Court 1977: No overdubs
Houston 1977: No overdubs
Live Killers Album: Tons of overdubs on background vocals and even some lead parts
Paris 1979: No overdubs
Tokyo 1979: No overdubs obviously lol :)
Hammersmith 1979: No overdubs
Buenos Aires 1981: No overdubs
Sao Paulo 1981: No overdubs
Caracas 1981: No overdubs
Montreal 1981: No overdubs 
Milton Keynes 1982: The only overdub is on Fat Bottomed Girls on the "locality" line 
Tokorozawa 1982: No overdubs
Rock in Rio 1985: No overdubs
Tokyo 1985: No overdubs
Live Aid: No overdubs
Live At Wembley (More like "Dubbed at Wembley") 1986: Overdubs all over the place. Lead overdubs on songs such as One Vision, A Kind of Magic, Who Wants to Live Forever, I Want to Break Free, Radio Ga Ga,  Friends will be Friends, We Are the Champions
Budapest 1986: Overdub on under pressure on the line "higher higher and high!" at the end of the second verse/chorus


It's late, but it's time to set me free

It's late, yes I know but there's no way it has to be

Too late, so let the fire take our bodies this night

So late, so let the waters take our guilt in the t
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Posted: 05 Nov 10, 03:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

On Montreal Freddie does have aggression in his voice because he and the rest of band were pissed off with the film crew and the crowd that were there.  The film crew wanted Freddie to wear the same clothes that he wore on the first night, but something happened and Freddie wasn't happy with them and came out wearing shorts and that was when it switches to the second night on the DVD.

Also Freddie thought that the crowd didn't like Queen as they were mainly sitting around and not getting into the music, but what Queen didn't know on the night was the venue had told the fans that they weren't to get out of their seats, that is why there is so much aggression in Freddie's voice.   It's all explained by Brian and Roger on the commentary of the DVD.

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Posted: 05 Nov 10, 04:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

one of the "guaranteed to" parts in the killer queen chorus is spliced in from earlier in the song, same with that patch of the video footage, because Freddie didn’t sing that line on one night (his mouth isn’t moving in the original footage) and it’s emphasised differently to the WWRY version.
This is the closest we can confirm to an “overdub”, it's really just patching a line in from another part of the same performance..

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Posted: 05 Nov 10, 06:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

@JAMSTER

Can you tell me where all the overdubs are for the wembley gig?

I know where they are on One Vision, A Kind of Magic and We Are The Champions but not the others, perhaps i will have a look the weekend and see for myself!!!

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Posted: 05 Nov 10, 06:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

emrabt wrote: one of the "guaranteed to" parts in the killer queen chorus is spliced in from earlier in the song, same with that patch of the video footage, because Freddie didn’t sing that line on one night (his mouth isn’t moving in the original footage) and it’s emphasised differently to the WWRY version.
This is the closest we can confirm to an “overdub”, it's really just patching a line in from another part of the same performance..
==========

I think thats more likely to be a editing error on the original release, rather than Freddie not singing the line.

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Posted: 05 Nov 10, 06:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Gregsynth wrote: Jailhouse Rock was played on both nights.

===================

Are you sure about that? And how do you know if so?
I always read that it was only played on the first night. Hence the reason its in the wrong place in the set because of the shorts issue.
Even still, The version from RM comes from the first night with overdubs (in my opinion).

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Posted: 05 Nov 10, 06:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

jamster1111 wrote: You have this all incorrect. There are absolutely no dubs on Montreal. The reason why he may sound different in parts is because they switched nights. You also got it wrong when saying the recording of BR is from the second night. It is from the first night. The only reason why it sounds like it may be an overdub is because the performance is nearly flawless and so spectacular that it could seem to good to be true. However, this is no shock because it was late 1981 and Freddie's voice was known for being in amazing shape then.

=====================

My mistake about Bo Rap. However I completely disagree with your reasoning about switching nights. Freddie's voice was in amazing shape, but he NEVER EVER sang in this style.
Put a pair of headphones on, shut your eyes and listen (dont mean for that to sound patronising btw). I would put everything I own on these songs being overdubbed, I'm certain.

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Posted: 05 Nov 10, 07:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

My two cents' worth:

The first video called We Will Rock You was produced under the control of Paul Swimmer.  Would QPL be able to dub the sound in that video ?  Has anyone compared the soundtrack from this video to Rock Montreal to see whether there is any difference ?

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Posted: 05 Nov 10, 09:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Bad Seed wrote: Gregsynth wrote: Jailhouse Rock was played on both nights.

===================

Are you sure about that? And how do you know if so?
I always read that it was only played on the first night. Hence the reason its in the wrong place in the set because of the shorts issue.
Even still, The version from RM comes from the first night with overdubs (in my opinion).
========

Bob's site says that JR was played on both nights.


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Posted: 05 Nov 10, 11:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Bad Seed wrote: jamster1111 wrote: You have this all incorrect. There are absolutely no dubs on Montreal. The reason why he may sound different in parts is because they switched nights. You also got it wrong when saying the recording of BR is from the second night. It is from the first night. The only reason why it sounds like it may be an overdub is because the performance is nearly flawless and so spectacular that it could seem to good to be true. However, this is no shock because it was late 1981 and Freddie's voice was known for being in amazing shape then.

=====================

My mistake about Bo Rap. However I completely disagree with your reasoning about switching nights. Freddie's voice was in amazing shape, but he NEVER EVER sang in this style.
Put a pair of headphones on, shut your eyes and listen (dont mean for that to sound patronising btw). I would put everything I own on these songs being overdubbed, I'm certain.

===================

I hear nothing to suggest dubbing on that part. If he did infact dub, you would be able to hear the original vocal line either bleed through, or faintly under the "correct" line. It's all over wembley, and you can hear Freddie's mistake on Fat Bottomed Girls underneath the "corrected" line.


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Posted: 05 Nov 10, 12:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

What about the solo of May  from CLTCL, near the end of the solo the sound is different than the thing you see him playing, used the solo from the other night?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jQ560bfOMI


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Posted: 05 Nov 10, 12:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

So it wasnt dubbed!!! those two shows were one offs and perhaps he was pissed or he was just trying something new after two years of touring the world! 

So what if he had never sang that style before, because he did there!


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Posted: 05 Nov 10, 12:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

About the whole Crazy Little Thing Called Love thing: Was the sound any different on the older releases (like the VHS, etc)?


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Posted: 05 Nov 10, 12:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Bad Seed makes a very good argument, but TCC has probably just nailed it - Queen had absolutely no creative control over these releases, so it is very unlikely that they were able to get overdubs of Freddie in there.  Even if they could have, why was it necessary?  Freddie was on the top of his game in 1981 live, and could sing just about anything he wanted to sing.


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Gregsynth user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 05 Nov 10, 12:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

marvinp01 wrote: So it wasnt dubbed!!! those two shows were one offs and perhaps he was pissed or he was just trying something new after two years of touring the world! 

So what if he had never sang that style before, because he did there!

=====================

I don't think it's dubbed either. Plus, hate to be picky--but Freddie breaks his voice slightly during the rock section. I don't think that's a dub!

Freddie does sing very aggressive and "hard" throughout the concert. The whole director thing did piss Freddie off (Brian and Roger mention it throughout the whole show), so Freddie probably was just "getting it out."


I always knew I was a star And now, the rest of the world seems to agree with me-Freddie Mercury