Forums > Personal > the bible - WTF IS THIS!

forum rss feed
Author

lifetimefanofqueen user not visiting Queenzone.com
lifetimefanofqueen
Royalty: 1328 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 16 Nov 10, 12:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

in the famous bible it claims "love your neighbour" obviously meaning accept people for who they are and treat others as youd want to be treated, but then it says thats gays are evil!
im sick of seeing people with big banners saying "god hates gays!" and "death to all fags" and more,

so we either give the bible a second title as "HYPOCRITE" which is what this is

love everyone, (turns around) but hate those guys, and them for their other religion

ralgion is said to bring peace, it brings far from it, it brings haterid, and war, and pain when people become obsessed with it, and do stupid things like that.

and dont get me started on the pope saying "dont use condoms! get Aids! we dont give a damn if u die!"

so, back to the true story in hand, what do we all think of this confusing/hyporcritical situation?

it just dosent make sence!

thomasquinn 32989 user not visiting Queenzone.com
thomasquinn 32989
Deity: 6257 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 16 Nov 10, 13:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Love Thy Neighboar as Thyself" is a phrase taken from the Gospel according to Matthew, a book of the New Testament. The denunciation of gays is taken from Leviticus, a book of the Pentateuch, the first part of the Old Testament. The two were written between 500 and 1200 years apart from one another. Also, before Jesus supposedly used the expression, "Love Thy Neighboar As Thyself" was already known in Hebrew (Leviticus 19:18). However, whereas Matthew takes it to mean loving your fellow-humans, the original Hebrew word for neighboar, rei'acha (I can't use Hebrew characters here because the forum won't display them), is used to describe fellow-Israelites (not Canaanites or Judaeans). So it doesn't really mean anything other than to favour your countrymen over others.


Not Plutus but Apollo rules Parnassus

catqueen user not visiting Queenzone.com
:)

Royalty: 1758 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 16 Nov 10, 16:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

ThomasQuinn wrote: "Love Thy Neighboar as Thyself" is a phrase taken from the Gospel according to Matthew, a book of the New Testament. The denunciation of gays is taken from Leviticus, a book of the Pentateuch, the first part of the Old Testament. The two were written between 500 and 1200 years apart from one another. Also, before Jesus supposedly used the expression, "Love Thy Neighboar As Thyself" was already known in Hebrew (Leviticus 19:18). However, whereas Matthew takes it to mean loving your fellow-humans, the original Hebrew word for neighboar, rei'acha (I can't use Hebrew characters here because the forum won't display them), is used to describe fellow-Israelites (not Canaanites or Judaeans). So it doesn't really mean anything other than to favour your countrymen over others.
really?  i never knew that :/  i always took that to mean love ppl around u :/ 
and if u take it in context of whole New Testament, u can interpret it as that (altho that is working from an english translation, apparantly it had different connotations in hebrew).  But if u look at story of good samaritan, it discusses who is the mans neighbour... samaritans were not liked by jews at that time, and Jesus in that story basically said that neighbour is anyone who is good to u?  like he said which of these men (levi, priest or samaritan) was the mans neighbour, leaving it to the listener to understand that we are all to care for each other.  please, just to be nice, tell me that that hebrew word can be translated more openly too?  please?

catqueen user not visiting Queenzone.com
:)

Royalty: 1758 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 16 Nov 10, 16:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

and lifetime fan... i am a christian, and fairly conservative in a lot of ways... yet i have gay and bi friends and i think it is wrong to call down judgement and hatred on people.  we are all created in God's image, and all of us are reflections of him, and i believe that we should love each other... in a scissor sister concert once, Ana Matronic said that they were on tour and went to the Vatican.  There she talked to Jesus, and asked him (among other things) does he love gay ppl?  and he said yes!  And she was like 'HEY!  Jesus loves the gays!'  and i thought... how sad... ppl think that the idea of someone saying that Jesus loves gay ppl is funny.  Imo, it should be natural for ppl to be saying that Jesus loves whoever... the whole message of the New Testament is peace and love and the relationship between God and humanity that was broken being fixed through Jesus living, dying and rising.  Please dont take the actions of a few extremists to mean that a whole religion/worldview is wrong.  There are many many christians who believe that incitiing hatred is sinful, and that saying that u think ppl should die is sinful.  And also, please dont judge the Bible by the actions of a some ppl... read and judge it on its own merit, but judging based on extremists behaviour is not a fair test.

lifetimefanofqueen user not visiting Queenzone.com
lifetimefanofqueen
Royalty: 1328 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 17 Nov 10, 05:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

catqueen wrote: and lifetime fan... i am a christian, and fairly conservative in a lot of ways... yet i have gay and bi friends and i think it is wrong to call down judgement and hatred on people.  we are all created in God's image, and all of us are reflections of him, and i believe that we should love each other... in a scissor sister concert once, Ana Matronic said that they were on tour and went to the Vatican.  There she talked to Jesus, and asked him (among other things) does he love gay ppl?  and he said yes!  And she was like 'HEY!  Jesus loves the gays!'  and i thought... how sad... ppl think that the idea of someone saying that Jesus loves gay ppl is funny.  Imo, it should be natural for ppl to be saying that Jesus loves whoever... the whole message of the New Testament is peace and love and the relationship between God and humanity that was broken being fixed through Jesus living, dying and rising.  Please dont take the actions of a few extremists to mean that a whole religion/worldview is wrong.  There are many many christians who believe that incitiing hatred is sinful, and that saying that u think ppl should die is sinful.  And also, please dont judge the Bible by the actions of a some ppl... read and judge it on its own merit, but judging based on extremists behaviour is not a fair test.

===============================================================

ok, and damn i wish the word of peace could get across the people who are and arent religious, why xant we all just get along, no matter clolour, taste in sexuality, taste in music, hair colour, etc.........

im biesexual and when i told my best friend at school she acted like i was a freak and ran away from me, as do many other "friends" but some i speak to online and on teh phone are bie and some arent but they  actualy accept others! i wish everyone at  my school would just grow up and act kike humans, not judgemental f*ckers! i told my friends im not bie, and they now accept me as their friend again

if we all lived in peace people wouldnt feel so down and there wouldnt be any wars! why cant we just accept others?!?!?!?!

some say its human nature, i say  its just cruel

thomasquinn 32989 user not visiting Queenzone.com
thomasquinn 32989
Deity: 6257 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 17 Nov 10, 07:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

catqueen wrote: ThomasQuinn wrote: "Love Thy Neighboar as Thyself" is a phrase taken from the Gospel according to Matthew, a book of the New Testament. The denunciation of gays is taken from Leviticus, a book of the Pentateuch, the first part of the Old Testament. The two were written between 500 and 1200 years apart from one another. Also, before Jesus supposedly used the expression, "Love Thy Neighboar As Thyself" was already known in Hebrew (Leviticus 19:18). However, whereas Matthew takes it to mean loving your fellow-humans, the original Hebrew word for neighboar, rei'acha (I can't use Hebrew characters here because the forum won't display them), is used to describe fellow-Israelites (not Canaanites or Judaeans). So it doesn't really mean anything other than to favour your countrymen over others.
really?  i never knew that :/  i always took that to mean love ppl around u :/ 
and if u take it in context of whole New Testament, u can interpret it as that (altho that is working from an english translation, apparantly it had different connotations in hebrew).  But if u look at story of good samaritan, it discusses who is the mans neighbour... samaritans were not liked by jews at that time, and Jesus in that story basically said that neighbour is anyone who is good to u?  like he said which of these men (levi, priest or samaritan) was the mans neighbour, leaving it to the listener to understand that we are all to care for each other.  please, just to be nice, tell me that that hebrew word can be translated more openly too?  please?
====

Oh yes, you're quite right. The Gospel of Matthew deliberately gives a newer, broader meaning to the word "neighboar" to include all fellow-humans, and in Christianity, the New Testamental interpretation of judaïc concepts is usually preferred over the original, Old Testamental meaning. I emphasized the fact that the original use of the phrase in Leviticus was much harsher because TS wasn't aware that the condemnation of gays and Matthew's version of "Love thy neighboar as thyself" were written hundreds of years apart.

Incidentally, it is worth noting that Jewish theologians have written commentaries arguing for a broader, more Matthew-like interpretation of rei'acha (resh-jod-he-ayin-chet-he is the spelling, I think, but I'd have to check) since the 9th centuray AD at the latest, so the ethnic-nationalist interpretation is truly a relic of the oldest Jewish history. Many portions of the pentateuch are indeed supposed to be over 2500 years old, and some, like the bulk of the account of creation given in Genesis chapter 2, are indeed presumed to be more than 3000 years old. I personally doubt that homosexuality was persecuted as heavily as Leviticus suggests, in the same way that I doubt every person wearing garments made of more than one kind of fabric was put to death, as Leviticus again orders.


Not Plutus but Apollo rules Parnassus

KillerQueen840 user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 4081 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 17 Nov 10, 07:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The Bible is what you make of it.
It's up to you to be wise enough to take certain things, and leave other things behind. It was written so long ago, the world has drastically changed, and consequently its applications have changed as well.  (That is, if you choose to apply any of it)
There's always going to be people who take things to religious extremes no matter what. Look at terrorist groups...I think they are a great example. Thankfully, the majority of the people in the world are not extremists who hate gays, or terrorists that are going to blow up buildings. No matter what you do or where you go there will always be a few crazy people, so it's really stupid to condemn one book as being responsible for intolerance and hatred of other people.


"The walls we build around us to keep sadness out also keep out the joy."

(Jim Rohn)
thomasquinn 32989 user not visiting Queenzone.com
thomasquinn 32989
Deity: 6257 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 17 Nov 10, 07:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think the most important thing to realize is the fact that you cannot take what's written in the Bible literally.

Most versions of the Bible you will find are translations of translations, often very poor translations at that. The entire Old Testament you can dismiss unless you speak Hebrew, because it is 100% impossible to translate classical Hebrew into any other language (every letter has a threefold meaning, as a letter, a number and a name, and every word absorbs the meanings of all constituent letters aside from its own meaning as a word). Moreover, it is extremely difficult to find out what certain words and concepts actually meant at the time the texts were written: for instance, when John the Evangelist writes "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God", he uses the Greek word "logos", translated as "word". While this is in itself a correct translation, it is also an incomplete one: "logos" also means "thought", "language", "reason", "logic" and "natural law", all at the same time. To understand this, it is worthwhile to note that the Greeks had many such words: for instance, the word used in the Greek translation of Genesis for the infamous apple, mèlôn (mu-eta-labda-omikron-nu), means any fruit that grows on trees, but also sheep and (rosy) cheeks.


Not Plutus but Apollo rules Parnassus

emrabt user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1118 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 17 Nov 10, 08:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

There is an 'extremely well respected' Muslim peace speaker named Dr Zakir Naik, who talks about the same stuff ThomasQuinn is talking about, 'unscientific', mistranslated
and downright stupid and baffling things in various holy books excluding the Quran,
and his speeches are really informative.

ParisNair user not visiting Queenzone.com
See right through you!!
ParisNair
Bohemian: 873 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 17 Nov 10, 13:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

In my own experience, there was a time when I used to think homosexuality is wiered, and gay people must be sick in their minds. If I came across a homohsexual person at that time, I would react the way lifetimefanofqueen's friends behaved.

But, over a period of time, as I got more exposure and learned more about homosexuality (I did not exactly go loooking for information about topic, but there is definetley a lot being said about homosexuality/gays in all media), I realised it is an alternate lifestyle, an alternate thinking (as in "why not?"), an alternate preference, an alternate state of mind. And in no way are these folks stupid, freaks,perverts or sick just becos they are gay. I still don't understand homosexual way of thinking ("how could a guy get turned on by another guy, especially with so many chicks around?" LOL!), but I don't judge someone by their sexual preference - basically I don't care.

Religion/religious books have done more harm to humanity than good. I think all relgious text should be banned! If our understanding of the most understandable statements are incorrcet (due to loss in trasnaltion or whatever reason), then its a waste of time trying to live by the book anyway. If religious books can be interpreted in any way one intends to, then how can it be word of God Almighty? And which interpretation is correct? :-|

ParisNair user not visiting Queenzone.com
See right through you!!
ParisNair
Bohemian: 873 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 17 Nov 10, 14:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As for Dr Zakir Naik - he is quite a character :-)

Very well known in this part of the world, but not "extremely well respected" even by many Muslims. His speeches and sayings mainly try to show that all other religions are faulty and Islam is the only perfect and true religion. Only folks who follow him are the Islam Supremacists (and there are indeed a lot of them all over the world).

emrabt user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1118 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 17 Nov 10, 14:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As for Dr Zakir Naik - he is quite a character :-) Very well known
in this part of the world, but not "extremely well respected" even by
many Muslims. His speeches and sayings mainly try to show that all
other religions are faulty and Islam is the only perfect and true
religion. Only folks who follow him are the Islam Supremacists (and
there are indeed a lot of them all over the world).
====================================================================

"Extremely well respected" was sarcasm,

i didn't want to criticise him too much in case he WAS well respected.

He's pretty mental, I was flicking through the TV channels late one night, there's something captive about seeing him spout off line after line of bible text, saying its wrong, then corrected it using the "correct" translation from the Qu'ran. i recommend everyone watch him in action, he's always on UK  channel "Peace" TV. It's really informative and weird, but it might just be my warped sense of Entertainment. The whole peace TV channel is about teaching tolerance of other religions, as long as those religions agree the quran is the true word of god. There is also the normal brain washing children’s programming you find on all religious channels.

Amazon user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 996 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 17 Nov 10, 16:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

ParisNair wrote: "In my own experience, there was a time when I used to think homosexuality is wiered, and gay people must be sick in their minds. If I came across a homohsexual person at that time, I would react the way lifetimefanofqueen's friends behaved.


But, over a period of time, as I got more exposure and learned more about homosexuality (I did not exactly go loooking for information about topic, but there is definetley a lot being said about homosexuality/gays in all media), I realised it is an alternate lifestyle, an alternate thinking (as in "why not?"), an alternate preference, an alternate state of mind. And in no way are these folks stupid, freaks,perverts or sick just becos they are gay. I still don't understand homosexual way of thinking ("how could a guy get turned on by another guy, especially with so many chicks around?" LOL!), but I don't judge someone by their sexual preference - basically I don't care."

Although I don't think your wanting to ban religious texts is particularly tolerant (not in the slightest), I am impressed that you were able to change your views on homosexuality as you learned more about it. Too many people refuse to take any steps to overcome their ignorance. For some people, there is no hope at all, but for others, education is really the key.

Oh, and as a bi female who knows quite a few gay men, let me assure you that they don't understand how you could get turned on by a chick, what with all the other guys around! :p :D




paulosham user not visiting Queenzone.com
Lazing on a Sunday Afternoon
paulosham
Bohemian: 659 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 17 Nov 10, 16:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The famous bible is great.  The lesser known bible is not so good, full of spelling mistakes and bad grammar.


Don't shun it!
catqueen user not visiting Queenzone.com
:)

Royalty: 1758 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 18 Nov 10, 13:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Interestinig thread!  I dont think i would say that religious texts are responsible for killing either, altho they are used to justify killing.  And as ... um... ParisNair maybe?  (lost track of who said what!) said, if texts are completely open to interpretation, how can they be the word of an almighty God.  I see ur point... on the other hand, everything everyone does is interpreted by others.  And while i see what ur saying, that either its right or it isnt, and if it is then it shouldnt be a matter of interpretation, i believe that that is the power that is in it.  God gave us minds and emotion and skills and we use those for everythnig -- whether interpreting information, worship, listening to music or anything.  And i think if we take the general overall emphasis of the Bible, it should make us more accepting of other ppls viewpoints, because we'd understand that God made us all different, and that it is more important to love and work together then to 'be right'. 
and abt gay ppl -- in my teens i would have felt a bit wierd abt a friend saying they were bi, much as i hate to admit it. (and despite the fact that my mom had a lot of gay friends when i was small).  However, since then, i have realised that people are people... a good friend (who i havent seen for a while) told me the other day that she is bi and i was like oh cool.  it doesnt 'bother' me at all, and  now, i cant imagine why it ever would have.  Lifetime fan , one day (hopefully) ur friends will grow up.  :)

ParisNair user not visiting Queenzone.com
See right through you!!
ParisNair
Bohemian: 873 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 18 Nov 10, 13:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

emrabt  wrote:
i didn't want to criticise him too much in case he WAS well respected.
He's pretty mental, I was flicking through the TV channels late one night, there's something captive about seeing him spout off line after line of bible text, saying its wrong, then corrected it using the "correct" translation from the Qu'ran. i recommend everyone watch him in action, he's always on UK  channel "Peace" TV. It's really informative and weird, but it might just be my warped sense of Entertainment. The whole peace TV channel is about teaching tolerance of other religions, as long as those religions agree the quran is the true word of god. There is also the normal brain washing children’s programming you find on all religious channels.

Brother, the reason why ou see Dr Naik on Peace TV all the time is because Dr Naik owns Peace TV :D

Amazon wrote:
Although I don't think your wanting to ban religious texts is particularly tolerant (not in the slightest), I am impressed that you were able to change your views on homosexuality as you learned more about it. Too many people refuse to take any steps to overcome their ignorance. For some people, there is no hope at all, but for others, education is really the key.

By the "ban the book" comment I was actually meaning to say that we are better off without religion, that's all. I am quite a tolerant guy, trust me. And I do consider myself as a practising Hindu too. But I think its more important to be compassionate than to believe in a faith system.
And our Freddie (and his pals Elton and Boy George) had no small part to play in my change in outlook towards homosexuality.

Amazon further wrote:
Oh, and as a bi female who knows quite a few gay men, let me assure you that they don't understand how you could
get turned on by a chick, what with all the other guys around! :p :D

HAHAHA! I can imagine!!!

By the way, Amazon, I dunno if u remember, but sometime ago we exchanged a coupl PMs about Axl, and you were going to send me a response to a query of mine, but it never came. Prbably you sent it but it did not reach me (has happened before).

Holly2003 user not visiting Queenzone.com
Hot Buttered Soul
Holly2003
Deity: 4707 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 18 Nov 10, 15:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Is religion the cause of war? Let's see ...

Iraq 1 & 2 -- no
Falklands -- no
Panama - no
Grenada - no
Vietnam War -- no
Korean War -- no
WW2 -- no
WW1 -- no
Spanish-American War -- no
Franco-Prussian War -- no
American Civil War -- no
America-Mexico 1848 -- no
American Revolution -- no
War of 1812 -- no

It might be fairer to say that in the last 150 years or so, Westerners have gone to war for any number of reasons except religion. Even the Northern Ireland conflict was more about nationality than religion.

So there.


"With a population of 1.75 million, Northern Ireland should really be a footballing minnow. Instead, they could be better described as the piranhas of the international game" (FIFA.com)
emrabt user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1118 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 19 Nov 10, 07:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Brother, the reason why ou see Dr Naik on Peace TV all the time is because Dr Naik owns Peace TV :D
==== === === ================================

That explains why the channel is so weird, Dr Naik is far more powerful, rich and egotistical than I ever would have imagined.

Apart from being extremely biased towards Muslim beliefs a lot of what he says is good stuff, especially as some people ask some very strange questions, like “is wearing a tie a sign of Christianity?”, or "cars were invented by christians, am i allowed to drive one.?".

lalaalalaa user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 841 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 19 Nov 10, 16:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Let's break this down a bit.

1. The Bible is not hypocritical, the people who are supporting those banners are just trying to spark controversy (whether they believe it or not)

2. The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination.  In basic terms, it's a sin (just like lying and stealing).  Believing in that is personal preference, but if a Christian is going to be gay then they are a hypocrite to the Word of God.

3. We do not judge others, but the Lord does.  Judgement is his right and his right only.  We are only supposed to love and try to show our fellow humans the truth of God.

I am a Christian and my favorite band is Queen.  Is this wrong?  No.  I am just a person, and I have no right to cast judgement on people.  As long as I do not abandon my beliefs by swearing, drinking, etc., I am sure that I would still be a "good Christian".  I hope this helps.

Amazon user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 996 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 20 Nov 10, 08:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

ParisNair wrote: "By the "ban the book" comment I was actually meaning to say that we are better off without religion, that's all. I am quite a tolerant guy, trust me. And I do consider myself as a practising Hindu too. But I think its more important to be compassionate than to believe in a faith system."


Well, I think I should leave this alone as I really value religion and I don't we would be better off without it.

"And our Freddie (and his pals Elton and Boy George) had no small part to play in my change in outlook towards homosexuality."

I love Boy George. Or at least I used to. For some reason, I just don't like the middle-aged balding queen that he's become. The Boy George of the 80's was legendary; not only did I have a huge crush on him, but objectively I thought he was gorgeous. :D

Freddie was also okay. :D

"By the way, Amazon, I dunno if u remember, but sometime ago we exchanged a coupl PMs about Axl, and you were going to send me a response to a query of mine, but it never came. Prbably you sent it but it did not reach me (has happened before)."

Check your inbox. :D I have had trouble myself in the past, however recently it's been working, so I resent a copy just now.