Forums > Queen - General Discussion > Regarding the "Golders Green Hippodrome" concert

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teddi2002 user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 12 Jan 11, 14:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hello!
Recently I read a web page implying that the queen concert in Golders Green in fact was broadcasted in SQ matrixed quadraphonic sound. Of course I had to check with an SQ decoder and indeed; there is quadraphonic sound in that recording, the only big difference I heard was that the guitar is panned in the rear channels, and almost muted (at least in some parts) in the fronts. My question follows;
Would it be OK for me to upload the fantastic "Royalties at the Hippodrome" by Pittrek decoded into a multitrack FLAC or Wav file (since I don't have the software neccesary for authoring a DVD-audio, and I prefer it lossless)?
your sincerely
teddi2002

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Posted: 12 Jan 11, 15:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sounds very interesting. So you basically plan to upload 4 mono files, each representing a single channel ?
Can this be used for "fixing" Freddie's vocals ? Because that would be awesome :-)

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Posted: 12 Jan 11, 15:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Would be interesteing to hear each channel - and if Pittrek is right, and Freddie's vocals can be "fixed", it would sound absolutely stunning.  I've always been a big fan of this show anyway, and Peter's "Royalties" version is fantastic.


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teddi2002 user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 12 Jan 11, 15:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well, I could either upload the single channels as multiple (several) flac files or as a multichannel file (single file containing all the channels).
Regarding the vocal issue, I think there is little to be done, but I would gladely be proven wrong about that. With the guitar slightly muted, it is easier to hear the vocals, but the bass and drums are still quite loud compared to the vocals.
I'm glad that you find this interesting, and perhaps I'll upload it already tomorrow, if it's done by then; decoding SQ takes several hours and uploading will have to be to an internet server, probably megaupload, as with my internet connection, torrent would take probably weeks.
kind regards
teddi2002

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Posted: 12 Jan 11, 19:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

4x single channels would be great please!
Anyone then wanting them as a .wav encoded dts surround file to burn to CD could make their own.
There's software available free on the net for doing just that!

Thanks!!!

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Posted: 13 Jan 11, 00:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks a lot, teddi2002, I'd love to hear it

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Posted: 13 Jan 11, 01:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Quadrophonic... interesting.  This would perfectly explain why Freddie's vocal is buried.. it's in the other two channels.  Looking forward to developments here..


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Wilki Amieva user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 13 Jan 11, 05:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think I can author a DVD-Audio. That would be lossess.

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Posted: 13 Jan 11, 06:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

But Quadraphonic could be played and heard normally on both stereo and mono equipment, right? Im no expert on this, but is it possible that although the radio transmission would have sounded normal, it could'nt be recorded (without loosing channels) onto a stereo cassette?

An interesting read here
http://www.procolharum.com/99/bas_restoring-bbc-session.htm

Would be nice if QP could do something similar

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Posted: 13 Jan 11, 08:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I do own an original BBC transcription disc. I will look into this. Thanks!

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Posted: 13 Jan 11, 11:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well, I had a go at decoding "Ogre Battle" with a few simpler steps in Audacity. I was pleasantly surprised with the results.

Producing the "rear" channels, I found that much of the guitar had been greatly reduced in volume. The guitar was also centred rather than panned across the two channels. The vocal sounded a lot clearer. I then simply merged these two "rear" tracks with the original. In my opinion, the vocal sounds less buried than before. Whether I'm just hearing what I want to hear or not, the Quadraphonic decoding seems to work.

If anyone could give it a listen and tell me if they think the vocal is clearer, It'd be much appreciated. The source I used was Pittrek's merge:

http://www.mediafire.com/?1jgnuntk4ox0383


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Posted: 13 Jan 11, 13:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Everything is now done, the rar is being uploaded to megaupload, and in a few hours, it will be available for you.
Regarding Wilki Amieva's offer to author a dvd-audio, I would really appreciate that, since as far as I know, there's no free software doing that available.

regards
teddi2002

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Posted: 13 Jan 11, 13:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

teddi2002 - great work

GinjaNinja - I don't have my original version with me right now but the sample you posted sounds great

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Posted: 13 Jan 11, 13:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I would like know which Adobe Audition script, if any, did you use to decode SQ (there are several).

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Posted: 13 Jan 11, 13:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

By the way, it seems there were quite a bunch of quad broadcasts between 1973 and 1977:
http://keepontrackin.bravepages.com/quadradio.htm#1973
Queen it's not listed in it, but there are lot of well-known names (artists and also programmes).

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Posted: 13 Jan 11, 14:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I can't find the link to the thread I downloaded it from, but it was titled something like "SQ decoding in Adobe Audition 3.0" and required an additional phase shift plug-in. I think it's the "first" complete script available (of two that I know of). I modified it slightly because the original could only decode 96 kHz files. My reference is the web page http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/
regards
teddi2002

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Posted: 13 Jan 11, 14:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

That should be:
http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?7939-SQ-Decoding-with-Adobe-Audition-for-New-Converters-Start-Here
That is a perfect script. You can also achieve excellent (and, perhaps, faster) results with SQdecode 1.2:
http://www-user.rhrk.uni-kl.de/~junglas/SQdecode/SQdecode.html
Anyway, please bear in mind that the SQ-encoded audio should have not been tempered with if you want to extract the maximum amount of surround information from it.

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Posted: 13 Jan 11, 15:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The only thing I did to the files was to decode them, and I don't think pittrek's "remastering" injured any sq information.
Regarding the different decoding methods, I think that the scripts for Audition features greater seperation than anything else that I've tried, since most decoders use the "passive method", featuring a seperation of 3 db, while the script for audition features a "logic method" (although not similiar to dolby's pro logic).

kind regards

teddi2002

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Posted: 13 Jan 11, 15:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The sample is certainly an improvement.

Out of curiosity I converted both versions to mono, and after evening out the levels they sounded identical.  So in short, is this a shifting around of the channels or is it phase removal?  Or phase removal via channel shifting?  In headphones the phase effect is gone in GinjaNinja's version.. it's a much more stable stereo sound.

So, I guess what I'm asking is... have you guys managed to create four separate channels out of a single stereo recording?  How is this physically possible?


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Posted: 13 Jan 11, 15:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

teddi2002 wrote: I think that the scripts for Audition features greater seperation than anything else that I've tried, since most decoders use the "passive method", featuring a seperation of 3 db, while the script for audition features a "logic method"
Hmmm... not quite... Also remember that "F/R separation" is not exactly the same as "surround information extraction".

Pittrek's remastering COULD BE very detrimental to SQ-encoded information - that depends on what he did. Obviously any kind of phase correction will probably wipe most of such data, but also tiny little things like adjunting the relative levels of each channel or the DC offset will affect the results when decoding.