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Thistleboy1980 user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 31 Jan 11, 11:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

My mrs (an an art-school graduate with a degree in Photography and Visual Comms) believes in the theory of postmodernism - whilst I (an academic graduate with a degree in media and journalism) reckon that there is no such thing.  This has caused quite heated debates in the past, but I take the term quite literally.... "modern" is "new" , and "post" means "after" - so you can't get "after the new". 

She says that there's a difference between "modern" (recent) and "contemporary" (new).  In my eyes, modern and contemporary are the same. 

Btw, I know there's no right or wrong answer here, I'm just interested in your thoughts....


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Posted: 31 Jan 11, 11:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It all depends on whether or not you enjoy sexual relations, ironed shirts and a cup of tea being brought to you in bed on a Sunday morning.
Admit you're wrong and start enjoying life.

fatty.

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Posted: 31 Jan 11, 12:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

-fatty- wrote: It all depends on whether or not you enjoy sexual relations, ironed shirts and a cup of tea being brought to you in bed on a Sunday morning.
Admit you're wrong and start enjoying life.

fatty.

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lol

there's no right or wrong answer, but that's the spirit fatty

btw, there'd be no chance in hell of me getting a shirt ironed for me or having a cup of tea brought in, either haha


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Posted: 01 Feb 11, 02:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

-fatty- wrote: It all depends on whether or not you enjoy sexual relations, ironed shirts and a cup of tea being brought to you in bed on a Sunday morning.
Admit you're wrong and start enjoying life.

fatty. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thistleboy:  These are pearls here. fatty's giving you pearls!


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Posted: 01 Feb 11, 05:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thistleboy 1980 wrote: My mrs (an an art-school graduate with a degree in Photography and Visual Comms) believes in the theory of postmodernism - whilst I (an academic graduate with a degree in media and journalism) reckon that there is no such thing.  This has caused quite heated debates in the past, but I take the term quite literally.... "modern" is "new" , and "post" means "after" - so you can't get "after the new". 

She says that there's a difference between "modern" (recent) and "contemporary" (new).  In my eyes, modern and contemporary are the same. 

Btw, I know there's no right or wrong answer here, I'm just interested in your thoughts....
====

As an historian, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you - you have the wrong definition of "modern(ism)" in mind.

What you are thinking of is modernity. This is actually a 20th century neologism meaning "the present time". However, modernism is the name given to the age identified as industrial capitalism or the second industrial revolution, roughly the period between the ascent of interchangeable parts (roughly the 1880s, though experiments had been taking place sinde the 18th century) and the rise of totalitarianism in Europe (usually set at 1930 to coincide with the depression and to make a neat 50-year period). Modernism in the philosophical sense refers to the intellectual climate and scientific (and philosophical) notions founded in that period. Post-modernism then refers to those intellectual currents that respond to (Hegel: antithesis) modernism. It should be noted, though, that post-modernism is a blanket term covering such diverse notions as structural linguistics, deconstructivism and minimalism.


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Posted: 01 Feb 11, 10:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

ThomasQuinn wrote: Thistleboy 1980 wrote: My mrs (an an art-school graduate with a degree in Photography and Visual Comms) believes in the theory of postmodernism - whilst I (an academic graduate with a degree in media and journalism) reckon that there is no such thing.  This has caused quite heated debates in the past, but I take the term quite literally.... "modern" is "new" , and "post" means "after" - so you can't get "after the new". 

She says that there's a difference between "modern" (recent) and "contemporary" (new).  In my eyes, modern and contemporary are the same. 

Btw, I know there's no right or wrong answer here, I'm just interested in your thoughts....
====

As an historian, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you - you have the wrong definition of "modern(ism)" in mind.

What you are thinking of is modernity. This is actually a 20th century neologism meaning "the present time". However, modernism is the name given to the age identified as industrial capitalism or the second industrial revolution, roughly the period between the ascent of interchangeable parts (roughly the 1880s, though experiments had been taking place sinde the 18th century) and the rise of totalitarianism in Europe (usually set at 1930 to coincide with the depression and to make a neat 50-year period). Modernism in the philosophical sense refers to the intellectual climate and scientific (and philosophical) notions founded in that period. Post-modernism then refers to those intellectual currents that respond to (Hegel: antithesis) modernism. It should be noted, though, that post-modernism is a blanket term covering such diverse notions as structural linguistics, deconstructivism and minimalism.

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It's a term that has been invented to describe a certain school of thought, but it's all theoretical rather than arbitrary.  I don't subscribe to it at all.


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Posted: 03 Feb 11, 06:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well, that's really the problem: "postmodernism" doesn't describe *a* school of thought, it is a blanket-term covering *all* those schools of thought that are a direct critique of / negation of / response to the school we call "modernism". As such, it is almost impossible to name traits that apply to all kinds of "postmodernism", but that's heading off in the philosophical direction.

Essentially, what I was responding to primarily is your claim that "postmodernism" is a semantically incorrect term because it would (according to you) mean "after the present time", which it doesn't. I can understand that you do not agree with many notions filed under postmodernism - I don't either. However, that has nothing to do with the term "postmodernism" itself, which makes perfect sense semantically.


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Posted: 03 Feb 11, 12:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

ThomasQuinn wrote: Well, that's really the problem: "postmodernism" doesn't describe *a* school of thought, it is a blanket-term covering *all* those schools of thought that are a direct critique of / negation of / response to the school we call "modernism". As such, it is almost impossible to name traits that apply to all kinds of "postmodernism", but that's heading off in the philosophical direction.

Essentially, what I was responding to primarily is your claim that "postmodernism" is a semantically incorrect term because it would (according to you) mean "after the present time", which it doesn't. I can understand that you do not agree with many notions filed under postmodernism - I don't either. However, that has nothing to do with the term "postmodernism" itself, which makes perfect sense semantically.

=============================================================================================

OK, I know what you're saying, really I do understand it all, I've just not expressed the argument correctly....so to put it semantically correct, there is no such thing as "postmodern".  So now we can go onto the argument that if there's no such thing as "postmodern", then the notion of postmodernism is incorrect and postmodernists are insane lol


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Posted: 03 Feb 11, 13:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Anything with as many syllables as 'postmodernism' must necessarily be crap.  Just kidding.  I don't really know what it is.

Philosophy is one of those things that I always think I should be better at and more stimulated by, but once you're more than a couple of levels deep I find it just gets rigid and annoying and burdened by formalism. The joy of ideas, but all wrung out.

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Posted: 04 Feb 11, 00:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

In very general terms "modern" in literature, art and archtecture means a general distrust in the abilty of art and literature to have any impact on the real world. As a result  language, styles and form become arbitrary and random. Language is often multi-meaning, multi-layered, associative. "Postmodern" is not an antithesis to "modern" but rather a continuation with even less trust in the traditional means of expression. "postmodern" literature and art often have no relation between form and content at all - styles and form are relating to each other instead of relating to so-called content of art. One could say that while modern art and literature emancipate from the so-called reality  postmodern art and literature emancipate from the so-called content. In fact, you can find many postmodern dicourses on the Queenzone forum:-)


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Posted: 04 Feb 11, 12:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Without looking it up, i believe 'postmodernism' is the era (including the ways of thinking, etc) that came after the 'modern' (industrial) era.  So modernism as an era or philosophies that were discussed in the modern era, doesnt mean contemporary, but things that occured or were discussed in the industrial era.  So postmodern would be the time after this, and the theories and ideas that came in the post-industrial time.  I dont know if that helps. :)  The terminology is confusing, a lot of words have different meanings depending on the discipline that uses them.