Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > De Lane Lea demo's...'In The Beginning' vs '2011 remaster'

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Posted: 18 Mar 11, 11:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Just wondering what the findings are for these 2...

Is the claim accurate that the 'Queen' (Queen 1) re-release is a clearer source or are they simply trying to fool us by cleaning up the 'ITB' bootleg ?

I know it's been discussed in other threads but I'm curious if it could be summarized in this thread.

Thanks!

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Posted: 18 Mar 11, 11:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

If official recordings in better quality, is there sense to remove bootleg recordings in worse quality?


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Posted: 18 Mar 11, 12:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The main difference is the correct speed.
The Bootleg played 2% too fast, this has been corrected. The official version also has a slightly longer intro of "Keep yourself alive", which indicates, that the bootleg is not the source for this version. The remaster uses different methods of noise reduction, which lead to some amazing results in places especially without cymbals, but there are also some moments, where the different and lesser noise reduction of the bootleg works nice.

All in all the remaster wins - especially for the fact, that it plays at the correct speed.

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Posted: 18 Mar 11, 17:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I've only listened to the 2011 release of KYA in its entirety so far, only snippets of the others, but I'm pretty confident that I'll be binning ITB and buying the remaster (once the price comes down a bit).

The crackle noise at the beginning is ridiculous (but easily removed), otherwise I'd say this is 60% better than ITB.

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Posted: 19 Mar 11, 07:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

There is a topic overhere discussing the quality of in the beginning.

If I remember correct. In the begging bootleg was made by dutch collector. He got the acetate or an tape taken from this acetate from JSS. If it is a tape it is in worse quality to the official one.

Though I haven't compared it yet I am quite sure the official product sounds a lot bette. The sound on IN THE BEGIN... is muffled , incorrect speed (cassette tape issues ?) and has quite a lot of hiss on it.

Please search for the specific topic I'd mentioned above. I'm quite sure MIKO records did not used the acetate for the CD.

Besides this , th bootleg was made in the mid 90's using unproffessional equipment.... So I do really prefer the official release.

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Posted: 19 Mar 11, 09:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The crackling noise is obviously intentional; to indicate the source of the songs (Brian's acetate). I like it. Nostalgic in a way.


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Posted: 19 Mar 11, 18:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I feel the crackles on the recordings make it sound "cheap" as if QPL don't care about quality enough to clean it up!
3 non-Queen fan friends of mine who were actually interested enough to want to borrow the remasters, said exactly the same thing!

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Posted: 20 Mar 11, 10:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

And in contrast to what was shared here via John S. Stuart?


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Posted: 20 Mar 11, 10:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't remember JSS uploading anything of the De Lane Lea demos? I'd search, but the search function on this forum doesn't seem to work.

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Posted: 20 Mar 11, 11:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

No indeed JSS Lane Lea were neven uploaded here.

But it was JSS which sold a tape from his acetate to a dutch fan. Which made a cd out of it. Named In the Beginning. That cd was uploaded here. So there was no direct upload from JSS but a indirect upload.

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Posted: 20 Mar 11, 12:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Didn't JSS claim he sold a safety copy reel to the Dutch collector (whilst retaining what he says is a master), not a tape transfer of the acetate?

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Posted: 20 Mar 11, 14:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

OK it's time to clarify something.
I was supposed to upload John's version of the De Lane Lea demo tape. This never happened. The reason is very simple - in the time I got it it was officially announced that they'll be released OFFICIALLY. I have spoken with YourValentine about the share and she asked me NOT to upload it and I fully agree. It's an official release now.
JSS version sounds in some aspects better, and in some aspects worse. The better thing is that it's not so fucking loud ! I really don't understand why the new "remasters" are so loud :-( The bad thing is that it has more hiss than the official release, but (almost) no "scratches" . The official release has better "stereo separation" (sorry I can't describe it better), John's version has better sounding drums, etc. etc.

The old bootleg "In The Beginning" is a couple of generations worse than John's acetate

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Posted: 20 Mar 11, 15:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well, that's certainly interesting. As I'm sure he specifically referred to having a master tape - but in reality this "master tape" was merely a tape transfer of an acetate, and a bit like recording something off the radio onto cassette and referring to that as a master tape?

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Posted: 21 Mar 11, 21:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Rick wrote:

The crackling noise is obviously intentional; to indicate the source of the songs (Brian's acetate). I like it. Nostalgic in a way.

======================

That's exactly what I thought.


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Posted: 22 Mar 11, 13:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

pittrek wrote: OK it's time to clarify something.
I was supposed to upload John's version of the De Lane Lea demo tape. This never happened. The reason is very simple - in the time I got it it was officially announced that they'll be released OFFICIALLY. I have spoken with YourValentine about the share and she asked me NOT to upload it and I fully agree. It's an official release now.
JSS version sounds in some aspects better, and in some aspects worse. The better thing is that it's not so fucking loud ! I really don't understand why the new "remasters" are so loud :-( The bad thing is that it has more hiss than the official release, but (almost) no "scratches" . The official release has better "stereo separation" (sorry I can't describe it better), John's version has better sounding drums, etc. etc.

The old bootleg "In The Beginning" is a couple of generations worse than John's acetate

============
Can you send me John's versions via email? Of course, I won't share them :)

oleggolubkin@rambler.ru


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Posted: 29 Mar 11, 07:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db8D9ScAAXs

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Posted: 30 Mar 11, 10:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I personally like the cracks at the start.. very nice hommage to the era, recording techniques, and source.
And the remaining background noise only adds to the atmosphere of the songs, not a hinderence in any way..

Just listen to the drums!!! sorry, got carried away


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Posted: 30 Mar 11, 13:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Dane wrote: I personally like the cracks at the start.. very nice hommage to the era, recording techniques, and source.
And the remaining background noise only adds to the atmosphere of the songs, not a hinderence in any way..

Just listen to the drums!!! sorry, got carried away
------------------------------

I agree. I finally got my Queen (I) remaster in the mail and gave it a listen this morning and I have conlcuded that Queen fans are the bitchiest and nitpickiest people. All that fuss over that little needle drop at the beginning, which was obviously there for effect as a nod to the band's and the tracks' analogue beginnings, and which lasted all of two seconds, and to listen to some here, it was a slap in the face to "the fans". Please. Get over yourselves, friends. Save your ire for things that really matter.


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Posted: 01 Apr 11, 20:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

A couple of myths to dispel.

The studio master recording tapes for these sessions do NOT exist. They have long been erased. Whilst recording this session, Queen were not received with any notice or priority.

After the acetates were cut (which were only recorded as a show-case demo anyway), the studio master tapes were recorded over by other artists. Why would this not be the case (especially in the early 1970's when both studio time and tape were very expensive?). So no studio master survives. This was the case in '72 - and it cannot be "undone" since!

My high quality reel-to-reel came "almost instantly" from the direct recording of these newly-pressed acetates, (I believe ony four were cut, of which, only BM's & JD's survive) under studio conditions, and was the "cleanest" thing possible to a newly minted LP. (At that time - this would have been perceived as very high-tech). This tape was later hawked around the record companies as a demo tape - and was not intend for any other reason but to gain a record contract. It was never considered for publication.

Therefore; My tape is first generation from a mint condition acetate, preserving that "crisp" new sound. This was digitalised in the 1980's and although both the sound of the original acetate and tape have deteriorated during that period, the digitalised copy has not altered.

Queen's De Lane tracks come from a similar acetate, but my point is that their disc (or their LP if you like) is almost 40 years old now! It has obviously been played a few times - and it is also obvious that thier acetate has shown both ware and tare and a bit of "aging" during that interval. By the time QPL digitised their disc, my tape already had a twenty year start!

So although it can be argued that both Queen and I have produced their tracks from similar acetate masters - my acetate master was in a healthier state to begin with, and hence, I believe the better quality.
But, then again, my "older" preserved digitised copy of the tape - has not gone through any remastering, noise reduction or sonic engineering, so goodness knows what  "could" have been achieved at the hands of a studio engineer.
But it is not my tape in question rather the topic is "QPL Vs. In The Beginning".

Also for the record; I agree with Peter. The quality of my tape is somewhere between the two.
Above the bootleg (in places better - or at least on a par with QPL), but a bit more hiss than the official release.
A very accurate description.

You pays your money - you takes your choice!


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Posted: 02 Apr 11, 01:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John,
Thanks for clarification, but I can't understand one thing: If the stereo mix master was erased after cutting acetates possibly in late 71 - early 1972, they still had multitracks to remix TNCD version for 'Queen' album in summer/autumn 1972. And if all Trident multitracks from 'Queen' sessions still exist, there must be all De Lane Lea multitracks also exist 'cuase they were partially used for the album. If it's so, why not to remix them again...