Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > John's involvement with Made in Heaven

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dagi user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 31 May 11, 17:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hi all,

As others may have picked up, in the second part of the Days of Our Lives documentary Roger referred to himself and Brian making the Made in Heaven album. John's contribution and involvement was not mentioned.

Moment's before, Brian briefly mentioned that "...John is no longer with us, he's in a different place....".

After I heard Roger's comment's, I opened up the album and re-read the credits, John is listed as playing bass and keyboards.

I remember seeing at least one picture of John in the studio in a fan club magazine, it was stated that this was taken during the sessions of Made in Heaven.

In addition, John's track 'My life has been saved' is on the album, which if memory serves me correct is a very slight variation of the CD single taken from one of the 'The Miracle' tracks.

Finally, I also remember Roger referring in a fan club letter (circa 1992) to the fact that himself and JD had started work on Made in Heaven without Brian. Although I seem to recall Brian subsequently saying that he undid much of their recording.

But what do you think of Roger's comments, is it a re-writing of history, an unintended badly worded phrase or was JD's involvement very limited / negligible?

I wasn't overly enamered with the documentary as the impression was given that the group was a trio rather than a quartet, there was some archive interviews with JD (including from when the Days of Our Lives video was being shot) which could have been used and this would have brought a greater degree of balance to the film. That said, I don't think Deaky could really give a toss about the group, their legacy. Brian or Roger - which is a shame.

Your thoughts?

dagi

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Posted: 31 May 11, 18:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

If I remember correctly at the time Roger & John did a huge chunk of work on the album while Brian dealt with his solo career.  When Brian came and heard what they'd done he went and reworked everything again with Roger as he didn't like the finished product.  This might have been another nail in the coffin for John who felt his hard work wasn't valued by Brian.

Although Brian did say around 1995 that he wasn't happy with how far back some of his vocals were mixed on the album so I guess Roger & John still kept some control on things.

Shame to have revisionist history like this in an otherwise fantastic documentary.

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Posted: 31 May 11, 18:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Eh, don't care much.  I thought it was brilliant when he shat on Robbie Williams about ten years ago (he was 100% right about the track) but if he wants to disappear then I say let him.


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Posted: 31 May 11, 19:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Roger said the "another place" comment in reference to the current moment. As an explanation as to why John didn't give new interviews for this particular documentary (or for "Champions of the World" sixteen years ago if memory serves).

John's writing was minimal on "The Miracle" and "Innuendo" (and even on "A Kind of Magic"), but he did have a great deal of input on both those albums. Since the "Made In Heaven" sessions are somewhat shrouded in mystery we can only speculate about John's involvement or lack thereof, but I doubt he was there just as a session player. 

And I certainly don't think that Brian and/or Roger implied otherwise.

V.


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Posted: 31 May 11, 19:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

dagi wrote:

the impression was given that the group was a trio rather than a quartet, there was some archive interviews with JD (including from when the Days of Our Lives video was being shot) which could have been used and this would have brought a greater degree of balance to the film ====

Absolutely agree with this, it's the one thing I thought was wrong with the documentary.

As for Roger saying he made MIH with Brian, I think the two of them have sort of come to see Queen as it is post-Freddie as Brian and Roger and I think he forgot to mention John there.

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Posted: 31 May 11, 19:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John Deacon died in 1992 after falling off the Wembley stage and being eaten by Amir, who blamed him for Freddie's death.  Therefore he had no input whatsoever in MIH.  He did, however, achieve a posthumous number one hit with "No Turning Back" in Uzbekistan in 1994, after Brian reworked it with Roger.  They took out the bass and had Treasure Moment redo the vocals.


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Posted: 01 Jun 11, 02:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As for Roger saying he made MIH with Brian, I think the two of them have sort of come to see Queen as it is post-Freddie as Brian and Roger and I think he forgot to mention John there.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I think there must be a lot of frustration for Brian and Roger, that John is no longer willing to do anything for Queen. 
I mean, they are working "their asses off" to keep the thing going and he still makes a lot of money, but isn't willing to even take part in a serious documentary.
As Brian somewhere said, once you are a rockmusician, you will always stay that way and never lose the appetite. 
So John losing his appetite while being one of the most versatile bass players ever is very uncommon in the music scene.

The fact that he has completely given up music makes me wonder, if we really know, what is going on. And maybe it's better that we do not know everything about "the other place". 

I have a lot of sympathy for Brian and Roger doing what they do.
Surely those who do a lot will also do a lot of mistakes.
While those who do nothing at all surely make no mistakes.
But are they the better ones?

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Posted: 01 Jun 11, 02:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Soundfreak wrote: As for Roger saying he made MIH with Brian, I think the two of them have sort of come to see Queen as it is post-Freddie as Brian and Roger and I think he forgot to mention John there.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I think there must be a lot of frustration for Brian and Roger, that John is no longer willing to do anything for Queen. 
I mean, they are working "their asses off" to keep the thing going and he still makes a lot of money, but isn't willing to even take part in a serious documentary.
As Brian somewhere said, once you are a rockmusician, you will always stay that way and never lose the appetite. 
So John losing his appetite while being one of the most versatile bass players ever is very uncommon in the music scene.

The fact that he has completely given up music makes me wonder, if we really know, what is going on. And maybe it's better that we do not know everything about "the other place". 

I have a lot of sympathy for Brian and Roger doing what they do.
Surely those who do a lot will also do a lot of mistakes.
While those who do nothing at all surely make no mistakes.
But are they the better ones?

========================

Agreed... I think Brian and Roger accept his decission not being part of the music business. But even this documentary that could been shot at John's home (John parts) is even too much. He doesn't have to leave the house for this and the press and radio stuff could be done by Roger and Brian..... but I'm sure once you are involved in a project there have to be certain commitments.

I think Queen screwed John life up a bit. He is a dad of five or six children, has been negative in the news with the strip affair, Made in Heaven issues, named before. I think he just want to be a family man and don't want to do anything for Queen anymore. Just cashing the checks. Once you are in the Queen rollercoaster you won't get out that easily.


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Posted: 01 Jun 11, 03:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

If i remember correctly, has it not been clearly stated that John wrote the keyboard drone sequence on 'IABD'?
Surely that and playing bass are enough to be credited as helping on MIH, that and the fact one of the songs are his songs.

I do think that it was just a badly worded phrase, which is fair enough, but thats something that should have been rectified when it was being edited. There's no excuse for that.


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Posted: 01 Jun 11, 04:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

BIZZARE  -  is how I would describe John not being able or willing to do a few new interviews for the doco & also not using his natural born talent to be able to play music & write songs for the past 15 or so years.  Why would you waste such a talent as his?? I can't quite figure it out, but having said that I don't know what goes on in his life  - each to his own i guess?!

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Posted: 01 Jun 11, 04:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I wasn't overly enamered with the documentary as the impression was given that the group was a trio rather than a quartet, there was some archive interviews with JD (including from when the Days of Our Lives video was being shot) which could have been used and this would have brought a greater degree of balance to the film. That said, I don't think Deaky could really give a toss about the group, their legacy. Brian or Roger - which is a shame.

==========================

I got a totally different impression and thought that every member was treated with equal respect, it was also one of the few times Brian May hasn’t come across as an egotistical maniac to me.
Made in heaven was Brushed over really quickly, Brian and roger use “we” a lot meaning the band, ie, John and Freddie too.
“Brian and I thought the time was right to work on it”, We (Brian JOHN and I,) went back in to the studio.

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Posted: 02 Jun 11, 09:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Who gives a fig about Deacon anyway??  He is pathologically lazy.  He forgot the bassline to Under Pressure (Roger had to remember it for him) and he was busy on freaking HOLIDAY when work on One Vision was starting up.  If you ask me, he's a liability.

Oh shit, sorry.  I was venting an irrational dislike about the wrong member of the band.  Sorry, it's Brian and Roger who are to blame for this seriously awful documentary that I didn't pay a cent to watch.


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
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Posted: 02 Jun 11, 09:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

British people love complaining about BBC stuff, because they fund the whole thing. However all you people who illegally watched it have no right to complain.

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Posted: 02 Jun 11, 09:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

You're quite right.  All that Queen music I've bought was really more of a reward to the record company for putting together such attractive packaging.


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
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Posted: 02 Jun 11, 10:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

You're quite right. All that Queen music I've bought was really more of a reward to the record company for putting together such attractive packaging.
===================

Now pay £145 a year for a licence to own a TV and you'll have put the money into make this documentary.

Not my view of course, but that's the argument.

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Posted: 02 Jun 11, 10:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's a somewhat foolish one, as I don't live in England and am not disposed towards paying for their television.

I'd happily buy the DVD though!


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
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Posted: 02 Jun 11, 10:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

but you watched one of the the programmesa the licence fee funds...

and so on and so fourth.

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Posted: 02 Jun 11, 11:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

People continually take things out of context when talking about the elusive Mr. Deacon. Brian's comment about John being in "another place" must simply refer to John just wanting to live a domestic life. Even back in '76 when George Tremlett's book came out there were hints of what each band member's future would be "after Queen" and John was thought to be, back then, the one who would probably live a more quiet and private life when it's all over. That is pretty much true. I would love to see him take part in some of these things being this is Queen's 40th year and I'm somewhat pissed off that he can't even put out the occasional press statement that he's ok, living large and enjoying life. Just to pacify us all. I think he owes us that much right? But what can we do? Just enjoy what's coming out now and let Deacy do it if and when he wants.

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Posted: 02 Jun 11, 13:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I didn't Jthink John looked too healthy in the very brief clip showing them making video for No One But You.

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Posted: 02 Jun 11, 18:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think it's pretty apparent Brian and Roger are trying to make Queen relevant in today's music world.  It's a shame John isn't involved though.  I don't think the documentary completely left John out of the recording process of MIH, I just think Brian and Roger just talked about themselves doing it.  At least that's my impression.  Before I watched "These Are the Days," I was under the impression John was hardly mentioned.  After watching it, I didn't get that impression.  He was complimented quite a bit.
My take from the recent documentary is that it sounds like Freddie "went to bat" for John quite a bit concerning song-writing, etc.  It sounds like they had very similar taste in music as well.  Now that Freddie is gone, John probably has no reason to continue with Brian and Roger.  
I would LOVE to see a new interview with John about why he chooses to stay out of the Queen 40th anniversary.  With that being said, I wonder why he did the reunion with "The Show Must Go On," with Elton John and the "No One But You" track in 1997???  I know that was a tribute track to Freddie, but he could have stayed out of that?  Any insight, anyone?