Forums > Queen - General Discussion > Jealousy Kick Drum - Mistake on 2011 Remaster?!?

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cmsdrums user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 24 Jun 11, 11:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I've received my copy of Jazz today (see some comments on the bonus tracks here: http://www.queenzone.com/forums/1269698/2nd-batch-of-remasters-bonus-track-listing.aspx)

The sleeve notes say that the bass drum for 'Jealousy' has been restored (by Josh McCrae) having bizarrely never been present in all previous versions of Jazz!  It really does sound great, and I really like the accented beats Roger plays - HOWEVER
I think they've missed one beat at about 1 min 59 seconds - now, it COULD be that Roger didn't play that single beat at that part even though he plays it on all other comporable parts on the song, but I don't think so!

Once you've had a listen, let me know!!!

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Posted: 24 Jun 11, 18:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Bloody hell. Some lucky people get them early....

I have to say though, that if the drum was missed off on the album originally, then it shouldn't be present on the remaster.
I'd have expected this version to be the one on Deep Cuts 2....

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Posted: 24 Jun 11, 23:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Restored kick?

So the track was remixed? If that is the case, then that's poor form.

Sure have it as a bonus track, but leave the album the way it is.

I would want a unequivocally plausible explanation as to why (some) kicks were left out in the first place. It's impossible to believe that Freddie (being the perfectionist that he clearly was) would accidental leave them out. Seems completely likely it was an artistic decision. It's not like the entire kick track is missing. Perhaps he wanted (and I think achieved) a sparse sounding verse, which brilliantly draws more attention to John's amazing bass lines.

The fact that it's his track, and we can't ask him why they (the kicks) are not present, it should be left alone when in the context of the album.

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Posted: 25 Jun 11, 04:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I haven't heard it so far, but the answer may be found in the rules of the vinyl age.
Those who have "Jazz" in vinyl form can even see in "Mustapha" that the groove needs more space during the louder stereo parts.
Same goes for a kick drum. And as the album is packed with songs it may have had something to do with that.
A Kick drum in "Jealousy" might have lead to the consequence, that another song had to be removed or the whole album had to be mastered on a lower level leading to a weaker and poorer sound.

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Posted: 25 Jun 11, 05:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Soundfreak wrote: I haven't heard it so far, but the answer may be found in the rules of the vinyl age.
Those who have "Jazz" in vinyl form can even see in "Mustapha" that the groove needs more space during the louder stereo parts.
Same goes for a kick drum. And as the album is packed with songs it may have had something to do with that.
A Kick drum in "Jealousy" might have lead to the consequence, that another song had to be removed or the whole album had to be mastered on a lower level leading to a weaker and poorer sound.
______

If that were true, then why is the kick track clearly still present in other parts of the song? It seems more likely to be strategic artistic removal.

Getting rid of the occasional kick during the verses would have little to no effect in creating more physical space on a vinyl press.

Doesn't ring true for mine.

I'll say it again, should have been left alone.

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Posted: 25 Jun 11, 08:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Having listened to it over again, I'm convinced that this beat has been missed out in error. It stood out to me on first play, even when I wasn't obviously listening out expecting anything to missing from the mix.  If this is the case, then, fucking hell, who has the final clearance on these things, and can I have the job instead please????

Greg or Gary - can you provide some info on exactly what is meant by the kick drum being ' restored' for this version of Jealousy?  The track doesn't sound fully remixed in total to me, so has what Roger originally played been put back into the mix somehow as a sample, or from the original correct bass drum take on the multitracks?

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Posted: 25 Jun 11, 09:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The other possibility is that the kick drum was taken out in the first place because someone realised at the last minute that Roger HAD missed out a drum beat...

Either way, it should NOT have been added back in to the album version, but I have no objections to it being a bonus track.

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Posted: 25 Jun 11, 09:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

brians wig wrote: The other possibility is that the kick drum was taken out in the first place because someone realised at the last minute that Roger HAD missed out a drum beat...

Either way, it should NOT have been added back in to the album version, but I have no objections to it being a bonus track.

==============================================================================================

Agreed!!! these are remastered & should not be remixed!!!


Joyful the sound
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Posted: 25 Jun 11, 13:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

You know, I guess I never really noticed the bass drum missing before on this song. Had a listen to the Japanese remaster version, and I couldn't hear it at all. Being added as a bonus track with the bass drum in? Noooo...that would only give QP an excuse to fill up a blank within the 5 songs they are allowed to put on the bonus discs haha! Honestly...it's just a bass drum...it's not like an added guitar part or anything. Let it be...I can understand the purists point of view, but seriously...just a bass drum!


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Posted: 25 Jun 11, 17:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

http://www.we7.com/#/album/Queen/Jazz-Deluxe-Edition-2011-Remaster

listen to jazz here :)


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Posted: 25 Jun 11, 21:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The kick is on the origional version. Fair enough it is difficult to hear, but it is there alright. It's masked by the bass. With it being produced by RTB, he may have used the 3 bass guitar method. The new mastering techniques can get rid of a lot of stuff, muddines and isolate other frequencies and bring them out more.
 I've only heard the 30 second snippet on amazon and the new quick is very prominent. There does seem to be a bit of reverb added to it too though. So maybe it has been added, but there is no doubt in my mind that the Kick is in the origional mix. Maybe they have not ommitted the kick at 1.59 as it wasn't there. Another mistake, like the piano in Don't stop me now, which we have only just realised.
 I hope it hasn't been added and just enhanced, but It does sound better in my opinion with the kick there.


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Posted: 26 Jun 11, 03:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Am I the only one who doesn't give a shiny shite that the bass drum is now on Jazz as well? Heck, it's not that song has changed drastically. If they had used another Freddie vocal take I would be more disappointed.


John: "It's the one thing I wish I could do - sing."

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Posted: 26 Jun 11, 04:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Agreed ^


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Posted: 26 Jun 11, 08:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I wonder if the snippets in the song medley on the end of More Of That Jazz are taken from the remaster or from t

Actually, forget it :o)

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Posted: 27 Jun 11, 04:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks all for the comments.

My original intention in this thread was not to question whether it was right or wrong to reinstate the kick drum track, or debate whether a remix has taken place (which are worthy debates), but really simply to say that whatever thye have decided to do with it, they have made an error.  The end result is something being not as the original version was, and also not exactly as any revised version should be either!

As stated in an earlier post, I don't think the track has been full remixed, but they have clearly 'dropped' the kick drum in somehow.  Presumably they have gone back to the multitrack and put the kick in where it should have been (with the exception of the one beat!!), but not changed any levels etc.. of any of the other parts/instruments in any way.

It would be really helpful if Greg or Gary can comment as to:
1) exactly what the sleeve means by the kick track being "restored", and
2) is there a cock up with one of the beats being missed?

Cheers

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Posted: 27 Jun 11, 08:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Very interesting, I will have a listen to the original again...

BTW to the fella that said ''it's only a bass drum"   That's like the most important part of any rock, jazz, punk, country, soul,etc track....so fairly essentail really


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Posted: 27 Jun 11, 09:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Togg wrote: Very interesting, I will have a listen to the original again...

BTW to the fella that said ''it's only a bass drum"   That's like the most important part of any rock, jazz, punk, country, soul,etc track....so fairly essentail really
====

I would be that fella, and I don't agree with you. But have it your way.


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Posted: 27 Jun 11, 09:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm terrified it's going to sound like a  Junior Vasquez remix! Hope it's subtle.

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Posted: 27 Jun 11, 09:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

dysan wrote: I'm terrified it's going to sound like a  Junior Vasquez remix! Hope it's subtle.
----------------------

Don't panic!!   It's essentially as they probably intended back when the album was originally released  (less the now infamous beat discussed here of course!!)

I'm sure it's just because it sounds so unexpected because it was originally missing, but to me the kick on this one track sounds better than the rest of the album!

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Posted: 27 Jun 11, 10:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Haha - probably where the whole remastering budget went.