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Soundfreak user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 26 Jun 11, 06:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Jazz" is the album besides "Queen 2" that I was most curious about, because both albums never really sounded right to my ears. Especially the drum sound on most "Jazz"-tracks is very strange and thin compared to most other Queen albums. 
So I was hoping, that the remaster would have a more fuller sound. And the news about the newly discovered forgotten kick drum on the mix of "Jealousy", which was "accidently left out" on the original mix, raised hopes. 

But - apart from the "restored" bass drum in this song everything is still the same. Compared to the Hollywood version the new remaster is around 4 dB louder with some slight changes in bass and treble here or there - and that's it. 
Those listening in mp3 or other reduced formats will not notice any difference at all. And those playing their original cd louder will be hardly able to hear a difference - also depending on the stereo system they use. 

"Jealousy" sounds nice with the kick drum most noticible around 2:46 when Freddie sings "If I should live or die", but it doesn't really change that much. 

The bonus tracks in this case should not be called "bonus EP", as people have to pay a lot for it. The regular single version is sold for 17 Euro, the double (bonus) version costs 24 Euro ! And all you get is two songs already available and three outtakes of lesser quality.
The instrumental of "Bicycle race" is less interesting than the already available Japanese Karaoke track, that surprisingly had some extra guitar work, which is missing in this version.
 "Don't stop me now" and "Dreamer's Ball" as an alternate mix and early take are interesting but not essential.
If they really were a "bonus" I would say "fine", but three outtakes for 7 Euro leave a bad aftertaste. 

And it's getting worse on "The Game"......

Pim Derks user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 26 Jun 11, 07:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Everyone who pays 24 euros for these releases is a retard. They're 11 pounds at Amazon, which included postage if you purchase them all at once. I've paid 70 euros for the 5 new 2-disc editions + Deep Cuts 2. Still a waste of money, but not as bad as paying 5x24 euros + 15 euros for Deep Cuts (135 euros).

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Posted: 26 Jun 11, 07:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Very curious to hear the 2011 Jazz. (and NOTW for that matter)

Personally I think it will be hard pressed to beat the CDP, ...which sounds as close to perfect as that recording could ever sound IMO.

The Hollywood version is complete balls, so the bare minimum I'd expect is for the 2011 to be sound better than that.

....having said that, as bad as the Hollywood remaster is, the DMS 93-4 version is worse still. Terrible. Actually un-listenable.

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Posted: 26 Jun 11, 08:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It might be me being naive - but I just thought the Jazz album sounded like that as a piece of work. New studio, looser band etc. Like tracks from The Miracle have their sound. I love this album so much.

Rick user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 26 Jun 11, 08:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Soundfreak wrote: "Jazz" is the album besides "Queen 2" that I was most curious about, because both albums never really sounded right to my ears. Especially the drum sound on most "Jazz"-tracks is very strange and thin compared to most other Queen albums. 
So I was hoping, that the remaster would have a more fuller sound. And the news about the newly discovered forgotten kick drum on the mix of "Jealousy", which was "accidently left out" on the original mix, raised hopes. 

But - apart from the "restored" bass drum in this song everything is still the same. Compared to the Hollywood version the new remaster is around 4 dB louder with some slight changes in bass and treble here or there - and that's it. 
Those listening in mp3 or other reduced formats will not notice any difference at all. And those playing their original cd louder will be hardly able to hear a difference - also depending on the stereo system they use. 

"Jealousy" sounds nice with the kick drum most noticible around 2:46 when Freddie sings "If I should live or die", but it doesn't really change that much. 

The bonus tracks in this case should not be called "bonus EP", as people have to pay a lot for it. The regular single version is sold for 17 Euro, the double (bonus) version costs 24 Euro ! And all you get is two songs already available and three outtakes of lesser quality.
The instrumental of "Bicycle race" is less interesting than the already available Japanese Karaoke track, that surprisingly had some extra guitar work, which is missing in this version.
 "Don't stop me now" and "Dreamer's Ball" as an alternate mix and early take are interesting but not essential.
If they really were a "bonus" I would say "fine", but three outtakes for 7 Euro leave a bad aftertaste. 

And it's getting worse on "The Game"......
=====

I read the review by Kes at the Queenonline forums and he was very enthusiastic about Jazz. Apparently, both NOTW and Jazz are sounding great. They improved the low end, which gives both albums a rounded, warmer sound. The drum sound on Jazz cannot be changed, unless you remix it (but these are merely remasters), but a rounded sound was what we basically wanted, right?


John: "It's the one thing I wish I could do - sing."

Soundfreak user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 26 Jun 11, 10:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"News of the World" always sounded great. And it should not be forgotten, that these "remasters" shall basically replace the EMI versions in the shops. 

For me it's only interesting whether these remasters should replace my CDs. And in case of "Jazz" it's clearly a "no" as all you need to do is play the old ones louder. I'm old enough to raise the bass or treble myself to achieve "a rounder sound".

From a remaster I expect an improvement that I can't do that easily at home. In case of "Jealousy" it's fine. But the rest is the same as before.

dysan user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 26 Jun 11, 10:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Good point. For me, I'm happy with my versions, it's the bonus material that I'll get them for - as I did the Hollywood versions.

Worth noting too that outlets that still stock them (HMV Oxford Street for example) have the Hollywood versions quite cheap. Worth it for those consider the best: Queen 1 and The Miracle.

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Posted: 26 Jun 11, 11:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Fair enough.


John: "It's the one thing I wish I could do - sing."

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Posted: 26 Jun 11, 17:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

TyphoonTip wrote: Very curious to hear the 2011 Jazz. (and NOTW for that matter)

Personally I think it will be hard pressed to beat the CDP, ...which sounds as close to perfect as that recording could ever sound IMO.

The Hollywood version is complete balls, so the bare minimum I'd expect is for the 2011 to be sound better than that.

....having said that, as bad as the Hollywood remaster is, the DMS 93-4 version is worse still. Terrible. Actually un-listenable.

------- 

TyphoonTip (or anyone else who knows), could you please tell me what is the 'CDP' version of Jazz to which you refer?

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Posted: 26 Jun 11, 19:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Robbieboy wrote: TyphoonTip wrote: Very curious to hear the 2011 Jazz. (and NOTW for that matter)

Personally I think it will be hard pressed to beat the CDP, ...which sounds as close to perfect as that recording could ever sound IMO.

The Hollywood version is complete balls, so the bare minimum I'd expect is for the 2011 to be sound better than that.

....having said that, as bad as the Hollywood remaster is, the DMS 93-4 version is worse still. Terrible. Actually un-listenable.

------- 

TyphoonTip (or anyone else who knows), could you please tell me what is the 'CDP' version of Jazz to which you refer?
_______

It's the first EMI cd release in 1986: CDP 7 46210 2

Fantastically balanced. Nice bottom end. Enough top for a nice detailed sound, and the middle ranges are well rounded making Freddie sound perfect. One of the best sounding 1st presses IMO.

There's no muddy sound, it's all crisp and clear. So this notion of the new mastering technology revealing a long lost kick in Jealousy doesn't ring true. I think there may have been a sneaky remix.

The CDP's EQ may well be reproduced to a certain extent with the 2011 remaster, however it will come at the price of a loss of dynamics. While not terrible and brick-walled like other releases, the new remasters are none the less reasonably compressed and hard-limited in spots.

Rick user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 27 Jun 11, 02:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The first Japanese issue of Jazz on CD, from 1989, is a great version as well.


John: "It's the one thing I wish I could do - sing."

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Posted: 27 Jun 11, 11:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Soundfreak wrote:
"Don't stop me now" and "Dreamer's Ball" as an alternate mix and early take are interesting but not essential. "
=============================================================

Not Essential?
Fuck me, THEY are the most interesting tracks on this album!
Arse.

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Posted: 27 Jun 11, 11:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Not Essential?
Fuck me, THEY are the most interesting tracks on this album!
Arse.                                       
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Some people's garbage is other people's gold. But I would not insult you for loving a poor mix with guitars not on the spot or an unfinished early demo......each to his own.

Rick user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 27 Jun 11, 11:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Soundfreak wrote: Not Essential?
Fuck me, THEY are the most interesting tracks on this album!
Arse.                                       
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Some people's garbage is other people's gold. But I would not insult you for loving a poor mix with guitars not on the spot or an unfinished early demo......each to his own.
======

Finally we have got something completely new and still there are 'fans' who moan. Sad.


John: "It's the one thing I wish I could do - sing."

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Posted: 27 Jun 11, 12:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Finally we have got something completely new and still there are 'fans' who moan. Sad.  
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
In case you mean me I am not moaning. I said these tracks are interesting but not essential - as we have final and better takes of both songs.
But I am critisizing that these things are labeled as "Bonus EP" when in fact you have to pay the price of a Deluxe Double CD for these few tracks. In my language bonus always means "some extra for free".

I think it's sad when people take quotes out of context and then even start to insult others from the safe anonymous position of their homecomputers....

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Posted: 27 Jun 11, 14:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Soundfreak wrote: Finally we have got something completely new and still there are 'fans' who moan. Sad.  
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
In case you mean me I am not moaning. I said these tracks are interesting but not essential - as we have final and better takes of both songs.
But I am critisizing that these things are labeled as "Bonus EP" when in fact you have to pay the price of a Deluxe Double CD for these few tracks. In my language bonus always means "some extra for free".

I think it's sad when people take quotes out of context and then even start to insult others from the safe anonymous position of their homecomputers....
=======

"as we have final and better takes of both songs" - I'm really interested in what you expected to be included instead of rare demos/alternate takes/whatever. Of course these versions are essential for Queen fans. It extends our collections even further. It's interesting for the general public, I would say.

Well, the 'Bonus EP' discussion is rather old, and is getting tedious in addition. If you don't care about these extra things, why not buy the normal editions instead? You're not being forced to spend extra money.


John: "It's the one thing I wish I could do - sing."

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Posted: 27 Jun 11, 15:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

If there was anything to complain about the 2nd set of remasters for me is the 2CD logo on the front hinge spine. Other than that, I think the 2nd Set are stronger released than the 1st set. NOTW for bonus and FG for sound. (bare in mind I only own the 93/94 DMR series)

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Posted: 28 Jun 11, 06:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The Japanese CP32 sounds excellent to me, I'd be extremely doubtful of Ludwig doing a better job so will pass on this one.

Soundfreak user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 28 Jun 11, 12:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Rick wrote:
"as we have final and better takes of both songs" - I'm really interested in what you expected to be included instead of rare demos/alternate takes/whatever. Of course these versions are essential for Queen fans. It extends our collections even further. It's interesting for the general public, I would say. 

Well, the 'Bonus EP' discussion is rather old, and is getting tedious in addition. If you don't care about these extra things, why not buy the normal editions instead? You're not being forced to spend extra money.                                       

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@Rick
Besides Queen I'm a long time collector of the Beatles. And I used to be excited about every unfinished outtake and demo of an idea - until I found out that I usually listen to them once or twice for studying how a song developed. And then I never ever listen to them again. Instead I play the regular albums. Exceptions are finished alternate takes.

So unfinished stuff like a demo of "Sail away" are highly interesting once or twice, but then I see no point in listening again when I have a finished version on the album. So I consider those things as interesting but not essential.

Essential are tracks like the so called "BBC/King Biscuit version" of "We will rock you", the alternate "Kind of magic"...the De Lane Lea recordings....the BBC "White Queen"...."See what a Fool"....
Things that are finished and/or give a new approach to a well known song. 

I'm sorry to bore you with the "Bonus EP" discussion. But this discussion is hot as long as the record companies - who permanently complain about being robbed - permanently try to make money for nothing. 

When I buy a Deluxe edition of the Kinks these days I get around 60 songs on two full CDs with lots of unheard stuff including an extensive booklet. I have to pay the same money for an old Queen album being slightly louder plus a "Bonus CD" with four minutes of previously unreleased stuff (The Game). 
And even if it bores you I think it's not right

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Posted: 28 Jun 11, 19:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

he speaks the truth


Don't shun it!