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YourValentine user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 02 Jul 11, 03:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

So, the accuser of Dominique Strauss-Kahn is not so credible as the prosecution assumed - apparently without further investigation. What if the whole accusation is just a lie to gain money? It does not matter because Strauss-Kahn was already convicted by the pulic spectacle of the perp walk, the "horrible global lynching" as Jean-Pierre Chevènement said in his blog. Shame on the media, shame on this unworthy spectacle, the rioting mob in the streets, publicised class hatred, hatred of everything "French".

Of course the prosecution was right to follow this case, of course a rape must be prosecuted, there is no doubt about that. But what happened to the presumption of innocence when a defendant is paraded before the global press in handcuffs, unshaven and overtired ? How can a man who is innocent ever regain his life when something like that is done to him? Respect for the prosecution to admit that the case is not what it appeared to be, that was really a surprise. We can only hope that more discretion is observed next time - because the media do judge and the public follows. The presumption of innocence must even apply to the rich and the famous.


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Posted: 02 Jul 11, 03:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hmm... the power of the media is scary...  :/

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Posted: 02 Jul 11, 05:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well said Barb. In my opinion, especially when it comes to rape or sexual abuse, the accuser and the accused should not be named in the press until a verdict is reached. That means that should the accused be found not guilty, then they would not have the stigma attached like the do these days.


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Posted: 02 Jul 11, 06:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Politics is really dirty.  This case shows again that truth is stranger than fiction - a classic honey trap.

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Posted: 02 Jul 11, 09:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Assange, Polanski, and Strauss-Kahn walk into a bar.  I sure hope none of the barmaids are suffering PTSD!

In any case, no matter who you are, the details of court cases simply should not be released to the public.  What effing hope does anyone have of getting a fair trial in this day and age when the media is muddying up the waters like this?


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Posted: 02 Jul 11, 13:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Essential reading..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/07/02/f-vp-macdonald-strauss-kahn-judgment.html

And a great comment on the bottom:

"Some years ago a young woman admitted (on a TV show) of having fabricated a story about her father raping her when she was a teenager. After he was convicted and spent eight years in jail she admitted that she had been simply mad at him because he scolded her verbally for coming home hours past the time when she was supposed to be back. She said that she now had a life changing experience and could no longer live with the lie she made up and went to the proper authorities to confess.

He was immediately released from incarcaration, a man with a ruined reputation, who had lost his wife, his job and every friend he ever had.

They embraced when they faced each other for the first time (on TV) and he forgave her.

Most of the audience wept openly.

Since then I have changed my mind completely about always taking the "victims" side and rushing to judgment."


"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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YourValentine user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 03 Jul 11, 03:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

There are some interesting points in the article you posted, Bob. There is a huge dilemma:

On the one hand there are very good reasons to protect the privacy of a presumed rape victim. The intrusion is so big that you cannot drag a rape victim through the media adding more intrusion. On the other hand there are cases in which the motives of an accuser are very doubtful and the protection of the alleged victim is abused. Just recently we had a very spectacular rape case against a popular TV person - the accuser's face was hidden throughout the long court case but right after the trial (the man was acquitted) the woman sold her story to a tabloid with "exclusive" photos.

There seems to me the same dilemma with the defendant: on the one hand the trial  must be public to ensure the public control but as a result some cases are really tried by the media before a jury was even called in.

I think we need more discretion by the prosecution. Prosecutors should not be allowed to leak details of a case to the media. Also lawyers should not be allowed to publish details of an untried case trying to make an impact via the media. The press conference of the accuser's lawyer last Friday was totally disgusting and the TV stations should not have broadcast it. Which brings me to the role of the media - the media make such cases so much worse. I do not know how we can ever re-introduce decency into this crazy world of the media where there is no shame. no sympathy, no limitation at all. The DSK is only an example of how people can be literally destroyed by a hateful, unsympathetic media coverage serving the most basic insticts and the cheapest prejudices of a sensation-hungry public. The freedom of speech is so essential that I do not think there is a cure for that. The resposibility must rest with the prosecutors and the defense lawyers.


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Posted: 04 Jul 11, 13:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"The resposibility must rest with the prosecutors and the defense lawyers."

... good luck with that ...

Unfortunately the US legal system is not about justice - It is a game of winners and losers, and who has the better lawyer.  The prosecution occasionally tries to coverup evidence that will exonerate the suspect, while the defence will play games trying to get a hung jury.  ... and of course juries tend to try to reward outrageous monetary judgements.

Twenty years ago, my sister in law sat on a jury where someone was falsely accused of shoplifting. The jury (except for her and another hold out) wanted to reward the victim 1 million dollars, because, to quote one juror, "This is for all Americans".  Eventually the jury reduced the reward to $250,000, and the prosecuter admitted that the $250,000 reward was shocking and excessive.

Meanwhile, back to the topic at hand, a French novelist is resurrecting a 3 year old sexual assault charge against this prominent man ...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sns-ap-strauss-kahn-france,0,608581.story


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Posted: 04 Jul 11, 13:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

oops


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Posted: 24 Aug 11, 01:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Dear Supreme Court of the State of New York,

remember that fat, rich French guy we paraded in handcuffs in front of a global press some months ago? Sorry but we changed our minds. Unfortunately, there is not a  single substantial piece of proof and the complainant - the one on whom we spent thousands of tax dollars to protect her anonymity - changes her story each time we ask her - see attached 25 pages of moaning about that. There might be a member in the jury who was not totally impressed by all the press conferences and interviews she gave and the defendant might well be acquitted and we would look like idiots - certainly that cannot be the goal of such a spectacle.

Sorry about all the hassle but at least we proved that there is no prejudice and a fat, rich French guy is just treated like any other random victim of our justice system
Shit happens
regards
the People of the State Of New York


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Posted: 24 Aug 11, 01:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I hope he will sue her for defamation and seek extensive damages.

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Posted: 24 Aug 11, 13:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Honestly, I'm too nauseous to think about this much today due to the forty or fifty comments I read the this morning from commenters who appeared to be both male and female who one way or another said in effect that it was absurd to think Strauss-Kahn guilty because he wouldn't gamble his future by sexually assaulting a woman that unattractive.   DSK deserves the presumption of innocence - it's the stomach turning views of women, rape and it's spectrum of motivations that kind of wrecked my day.

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Posted: 24 Aug 11, 13:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I haven't much to say on the subject, other than : there seem to be a lot of experts on this subject ...  more people than could possibly have fit in the room during the events in question.

And - even a liar can get raped.


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
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Posted: 24 Aug 11, 15:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well, I guess this is a problem:  female maids working alone in rooms where males are there who could attack them.  Probably they will now have to clean rooms in teams rather than alone.  That is probably a better idea anyway (it is probably much more efficient, with certain tasks such as making beds).  These maids are not always the most honest type (I have twice had things stolen from my suitcase).  And maybe working in teams would prevent some of the thefts - as long as one of the members of the team is willing to tell the management.

Anyway, I haven't read too much on this case.  But I did read / hear on TV that there was another victim - a writer.  I can't remember if she was French.  These days, when a person can easily get proof with little hidden cameras, it seems likely that if he keeps up this type of behavior, he might one day be caught on camera.  Then the proof will be there.

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Posted: 24 Aug 11, 20:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Donna13 wrote: Well, I guess this is a problem:  female maids working alone in rooms where males are there who could attack them.  Probably they will now have to clean rooms in teams rather than alone.  That is probably a better idea anyway (it is probably much more efficient, with certain tasks such as making beds).  These maids are not always the most honest type (I have twice had things stolen from my suitcase).  And maybe working in teams would prevent some of the thefts - as long as one of the members of the team is willing to tell the management.

Anyway, I haven't read too much on this case.  But I did read / hear on TV that there was another victim - a writer.  I can't remember if she was French.  These days, when a person can easily get proof with little hidden cameras, it seems likely that if he keeps up this type of behavior, he might one day be caught on camera.  Then the proof will be there. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the woman you were thinking of ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23banon.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

She initially made this accusation in 2007, so she did not just make up this story, but who knows, as a novelist she could have made up the story.

I had posted about her earlier a few weeks ago, but the link is dead.

Strauss-Kahn may be innocent and obviously is intelligent, but he surely lacks common sense.


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Posted: 24 Aug 11, 20:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The Strauss-Kahn case seems very strange because for rooms to be checked out, hotels normally make up the rooms after the guests have checked out.

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Posted: 25 Aug 11, 04:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It seems the 'accuser remains anonymous while the accused can be named in the press' law is worldwide. A disgusting law which can ruin the lives of innocent parties.

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Posted: 25 Aug 11, 05:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

tcc wrote:

The Strauss-Kahn case seems very strange because for rooms to be checked out, hotels normally make up the rooms after the guests have checked out.

Not really. When I was staying at the Westin Airport Hotel in Atlanta last month for the Breakthru convention, every day their maids came in, tidied the room, made the beds and restocked the coffee/tea supply. Didn't appreciate them placing my guitar on the desk however! (Truth be told, I actually do not like people handling my possessions especially when I'm not around!)

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Posted: 25 Aug 11, 07:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

We knew she was lying when it came out a month ago that about $30,000 miraculously appeared in her bank account overnight.

She was paid off, full stop.  And now the jig is up.  Can Strauss-Kahn have his life back now?


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Posted: 25 Aug 11, 08:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

inu-liger wrote:

tcc wrote: The Strauss-Kahn case seems very strange because for rooms to be checked out, hotels normally make up the rooms after the guests have checked out.  

Not really. When I was staying at the Westin Airport Hotel in Atlanta last month for the Breakthru convention, every day their maids came in, tidied the room, made the beds and restocked the coffee/tea supply. Didn't appreciate them placing my guitar on the desk however! (Truth be told, I actually do not like people handling my possessions especially when I'm not around!)


What I mean is that when the rooms are due to be checked out, the housekeeping staff normally do not clean the rooms until the guests have left the rooms permanently.  This is to ensure the rooms are in good condition for the next occupant.

In your example, they clean the rooms daily but on the day that you are leaving, they will clean the room only after you have vacated the room.  In SK's case, he was supposed to check out that day, so the maid should not be around cleaning the room when SK was still in the room