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YourValentine user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 30 Jul 11, 02:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Does anybody understand how the US congress can let the country slip into the possibly most dangerous crisis since the Great Depression? We watch in disbelief. I do not pretend to understand all the details but reports are mostly pointing the finger to the Tea Party. How can it be that so-called "patriots" risk the country's reputation, wealth and future for a short time political gain?

Compared to these people Gaddhafi looks sane...


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Posted: 30 Jul 11, 04:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

What's even more sad is that the Apple company has more cash on hand than the US government does, at this time.

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Posted: 30 Jul 11, 04:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

They've been bankrupt since the great depression lawls.


Killed by drones.
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Posted: 30 Jul 11, 10:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Deep Cuts isn't just for Queen!!   We'll be living that here soon.

Earlier this month, we watched Atlantis (the final space shuttle mission) climb
away to the stars and with it our entire space program for a long, long time to come.

With so many serious obligations to be met - tough challenges/times are ahead for many
years, no doubt.   I'm hoping enough money can be raised to send our Olympic team to
London next year.


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Posted: 30 Jul 11, 13:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

YourValentine wrote: Does anybody understand how the US congress can let the country slip into the possibly most dangerous crisis since the Great Depression? We watch in disbelief. I do not pretend to understand all the details but reports are mostly pointing the finger to the Tea Party. How can it be that so-called "patriots" risk the country's reputation, wealth and future for a short time political gain?

Compared to these people Gaddhafi looks sane...
===================

Tea Party freshmen are doing exactly what they said they'd do - changing the way Washington thinks. If that means shutting down the country while they hold their collective breath and turn blue, then that's what they'll do.

They're extremists who want "small" government - as in a government that doesn't spend money on things like welfare, medicare, medicaid or unemployment insurance, which are all programs to help those most in need. They don't want tax rates to return to pre-Bush amounts despite the fact that since he lowered them, the country's revenue has diminished considerably - of course two wars had nothing to do with that. They don't want any type of government intervention in their lives... yet they believe in constitutional amendments such as defining marriage as a union between one man and one woman, such as defining an embryo as a human being whose rights are valued as much as any other so if they are harmed in any way someone will be tried for neglect or murder, such as tying a raise of the debt ceiling to a budget "agreement" that they can’t even reach because they refuse to compromise with anyone including those within their own party.

Bottom line, they campaigned on a promise to "take our country back" by making Barack Obama a one-term president. They will meet that goal even if it means sabotaging democracy itself, and then in the end, they'll do what they did before and place the blame squarely on the Democrats and President Obama.

The Tea Party wants what they want with no regard for the good of the country or the world. Or worse, they truly believe their actions ARE for the good of the country and the world.


"The others don't like my interviews. And frankly, I don't care much for theirs." ~ Freddie Mercury



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Posted: 31 Jul 11, 04:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

how anyone living on mainland Europe can laugh at America's debt whilst their economy is in even more of a mess is in fact quite beyond me...

still bailing out Greece,Ireland and Portugal are you?

and that is why the UK will NEVER be a part of the Eurozone and with its toilet paper currency


isnt innuendo an italian suppository?

im gonna ride the wild wind!

its_a_hard_life wrote:you nutcase you rule!

joxer replies: but in a nice way :-]

YourValentine user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 31 Jul 11, 05:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I do not think anybody is laughing here, Jon. When the US economy crashes it won't take long for the European economies to crash. Somehow I do not believe that the pound will save the British economy. England is much more a money market than many other industry-oriented Eurpean countries.  As a member of the eurozone I can tell you that not many people here understand why we do not have the money for good streets and good schools anymore but are able to pay billions to bail out banks and whole countries who did not play by the rules - but that is another story.

I heard that Bill Clinton advised Obama to lift that debt ceiling with an executive order and leave it to the American people to vote about that in 2012. Apparently, there are people you just cannot compromise with.


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Posted: 31 Jul 11, 06:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

YourValentine wrote: I heard that Bill Clinton advised Obama to lift that debt ceiling with an executive order and leave it to the American people to vote about that in 2012. Apparently, there are people you just cannot compromise with.
.
================

The Obama Administration is concerned about the constitutionality of this. Though there was partisan hatred with Clinton in the Whitehouse, there's hatred like we've never seen before with Obama there. (And Clinton had a thicker skin and more productive ego than Obama) The concern of the Administration's legal team is that Obama will use powers from the 14th amendment to raise the debt ceiling Executively, and then the Republicans will sue - which will cost the country more money and might end with a strike against the Administration. That would be awful for Obama's reelection campaign, but also awful for the country because the entire process of lifting the debt ceiling, and the congressional sideshow included with that, would start again - with tempers higher and egos more bruised than they are now.

The Republicans have already gotten what they wanted in this debate - no "new" taxes, extremely low revenue and cuts to programs Democrats consider the blood of the country. It's still not enough for them.

Americans have their fellow citizens to thank for this predicament since a small group of ultra-right wingers voted these naysayers in. Worse? They're not seeing the error of their ways but rather cheering these representatives on with slogans like "shut it down!" since they'd rather see a government shutdown than a compromise.

Having said all that, I should add Democrats are not free from blame here. They had the Presidency, the House and the Senate for two years before the Tea Party was voted in. They could have easily balanced the budget their way - which would have included what most Americans want and that's a return to pre-Bush tax rates. If they had done that, this 'crisis' never would have occurred.


"The others don't like my interviews. And frankly, I don't care much for theirs." ~ Freddie Mercury



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Posted: 31 Jul 11, 07:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It never ceases to amaze me how easy it is for the super rich to convince the poor that both their interests are the same. I would giess most of the tea party people are normal hard working people who've been convinced by the media and certain politicians that "big govt" and taxes are "evil" whereas being obscenely rich and avoiding taxes is somehow democratic and the American way. The same thing has happened in the UK: working class and middle class people voted Conservative because the media and the Conservatives convinced everyone that paying for things like hospitals, roads and education was out of control whereas paying huge bonuses to bankers out of taxpayer money is necessary and desirable. Madness.


"With a population of 1.75 million, Northern Ireland should really be a footballing minnow. Instead, they could be better described as the piranhas of the international game" (FIFA.com)
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Posted: 31 Jul 11, 09:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

hope some way out is found... half the world will go down if the US does.

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Posted: 31 Jul 11, 10:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

catqueen wrote: hope some way out is found... half the world will go down if the US does.
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=============
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The US won't go down, IMO. I may not have faith in the US government, but I have faith in the US government's desire to exist. They will not sacrifice themselves. One way or another, they'll find a way out.


"The others don't like my interviews. And frankly, I don't care much for theirs." ~ Freddie Mercury



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Posted: 31 Jul 11, 16:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

magicalfreddiemercury wrote: catqueen wrote: hope some way out is found... half the world will go down if the US does.
.
=============
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The US won't go down, IMO. I may not have faith in the US government, but I have faith in the US government's desire to exist. They will not sacrifice themselves. One way or another, they'll find a way out.

Thats kinda what i figured by today... they are saying that there are several ways out, blaa blaa, which i don't really believe, BUT i think too, surely they won't go down.  having said that, the Roman empire crashed spectacularly, as did most big empires...
At least thats what the conspiracy theorist people say!

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Posted: 01 Aug 11, 07:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The Democrats have, as usual, given the completely insane Republicans what they wanted - no one is going to touch the absurd and perverse tax-cuts for the filthy rich, no matter if the rest of the country starves.

Everyone who votes Republican is a traitor of him/herself and the American people.

The Onion never came closer to being a serious news agency: http://www.theonion.com/articles/congress-continues-debate-over-whether-or-not-nati,20977/

The far-right neo-con wave that is still strangling both the Americas and Europe is going to kill both continents if it isn't stopped soon. These Reaganomics-morons are the only party responsible for the economic crisis, and if they are allowed to keep going, along with their racist-populist allies the Tea Party (U.S.) and the Islamophobe far-right (Europe), they will destroy the economy and society.

It is greed and a total lack of morality that is destroying countries. It is neo-conservatism that keeps telling people that their greed, hate and envy are virtues rather than vices.


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Posted: 01 Aug 11, 15:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Obama is a good man who wants one simple thing - to have the average American live in comfort.  But the system is far bigger than him, and he has surely learned many hard lessons over the past couple years.

The simple solution to this problem would be to cut defense spending in half, but that will never, ever happen.  America is a war country.  The bankers and warlords run the entire system, and they always get what they want.  They print and control the money, and they will make sure the richest 1% keep the majority of it, and at any expense.

The US will NOT default.  There will be a miraculous last minute deal, and the middle class will shrink a little more.  And the politicians decide NONE of it.  It is a giant charade.

The republicans set this one up.  Their interests are far more in line with the elite than the democrats ever will be.  They put the unelectable Palin and McCain in there in '08 so that a democrat could get blamed for a mess that dates back to the Reagan administration, at least.  With FOX news at their beck (pun not intended) and call, the majority of the public will be convinced just in time for the next election.

Obama will be a one term president... even though he tried to bring in universal health care, wall street reform, killed bin Laden and wanted to bring Israel back to its '67 borders.  A century from now he'll be looked upon as one of the greatest presidents.. certainly the best since Kennedy.  And Obama certainly learned a thing or two from him because, well .. he's still alive.

2013 to 2020 will be a republican.  You heard it here first.


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Posted: 01 Aug 11, 17:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH wrote: Obama is a good man who wants one simple thing - to have the average American live in comfort.  But the system is far bigger than him, and he has surely learned many hard lessons over the past couple years.

The simple solution to this problem would be to cut defense spending in half, but that will never, ever happen.  America is a war country.  The bankers and warlords run the entire system, and they always get what they want.  They print and control the money, and they will make sure the richest 1% keep the majority of it, and at any expense.

The US will NOT default.  There will be a miraculous last minute deal, and the middle class will shrink a little more.  And the politicians decide NONE of it.  It is a giant charade.

The republicans set this one up.  Their interests are far more in line with the elite than the democrats ever will be.  They put the unelectable Palin and McCain in there in '08 so that a democrat could get blamed for a mess that dates back to the Reagan administration, at least.  With FOX news at their beck (pun not intended) and call, the majority of the public will be convinced just in time for the next election.

Obama will be a one term president... even though he tried to bring in universal health care, wall street reform, killed bin Laden and wanted to bring Israel back to its '67 borders.  A century from now he'll be looked upon as one of the greatest presidents.. certainly the best since Kennedy.  And Obama certainly learned a thing or two from him because, well .. he's still alive.

2013 to 2020 will be a republican.  You heard it here first.

yeah... i don't understand why Obama isn't that well liked in the usa.  And i dont understand how the republicans are so popular.  I mean, how can u convince SO many people that this is in their interests?! 
And republican president again is a scary thought.  :/

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Posted: 01 Aug 11, 17:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

catqueen wrote:

yeah... i don't understand why Obama isn't that well liked in the usa.  And i dont understand how the republicans are so popular.  I mean, how can u convince SO many people that this is in their interests?!  

===============

Most Americans qualify under at least one of these categories:

- barely capable or incapable of independent thought
- easily swayed by manipulation
- racist

That should just about cover it.  I mean, really ... how dumb do you have to be to actually believe that not paying to see the doctor is somehow not a good idea?  And to believe that bombing other countries is somehow more important than lowering the unemployment rate from ~10%?  It really does boggle the mind.

That said, Obama has pissed off a lot of his voter base because he has been trying to find middle ground with the republicans.  One of his biggest campaigning points was trying to bridge the gap between the left and right, but in the end this has hurt him more than it has helped him.


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Posted: 01 Aug 11, 21:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH wrote:  
Most Americans qualify under at least one of these categories:

- barely capable or incapable of independent thought
- easily swayed by manipulation
- racist

That should just about cover it. 
===================

^ Disappointed that someone who seemed to be above writing something like this would actually write this.
Please tell me that someone hacked your account.


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Posted: 01 Aug 11, 23:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH wrote:

Most Americans qualify under at least one of these categories:

- barely capable or incapable of independent thought
- easily swayed by manipulation
- racist

That should just about cover it.  I mean, really ... how dumb do you have to be to actually believe that not paying to see the doctor is somehow not a good idea?  And to believe that bombing other countries is somehow more important than lowering the unemployment rate from ~10%?  It really does boggle the mind.

That said, Obama has pissed off a lot of his voter base because he has been trying to find middle ground with the republicans.  One of his biggest campaigning points was trying to bridge the gap between the left and right, but in the end this has hurt him more than it has helped him.
=====================================

I think some of this is a little facile.  First, citizens of universal healthcare countries certainly do pay to see the doctor.  It's not free, and it's not without sacrifice.  In Canada we pay in high taxes, and we often sacrifice choice, timeliness of care and the benefits and efficencies of private sector competition and dollars.  Do you really think the only arguments against government managed healthcare come from stupid people? My salary is decent enough that I could probably purchase insurance in a private system that would provide more benefits and services than I currently get, but I strongly believe that healthcare is a human right that should be equally available to all so I'm untroubled by any (mostly minor) personal sacrifices for the principle. However, I certainly understand the intellectual arguments against it and the arguments that urge caution, and they are not without some merit.  Just because the public discourse tends to absurd oversimplifications like 'death panels' and other nonsense doesn't mean there isn't a discussion to be had.  

Sometimes middle ground and compromise are great things.  Sometimes they're just weak, shit solutions that make nobody very happy.  I'm not sure I'd particularly want a political leader to be focused on 'bridging the gap'. The whole idea of democracy is the robust competition between often radically different ideas. It's their job to be partisan, and it's our job as voters to shape our respective nations by voting the best and worst ideas from both sides in and out over time.  Obama's hopey-changey-bridgey schtick was never going to be a reality (I spent most of 2008 silently (usually) yelling at my TV screen in disbelief) and I certainly wish he would have waited four or eight years to run and gathered some political experience.  Now there is a distinct possibility that all that intelligence and poetry and high minded affability will be wasted on a single term in tough times.  Unfortunate if it turns out that way.

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Posted: 02 Aug 11, 00:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

queenUSA wrote:

^ Disappointed that someone who seemed to be above writing something like this would actually write this.

=================

I'm flattered by your back-handed compliment :-)

Point 1)

"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and manipulates the credit of the United States" -- Senator Barry Goldwater

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." -- Henry Ford

Point 2)

Fox News is still the most watched news program in the US.  If these people could think independently, they would know the difference between reputable news and a right-wing think tank propaganda system.

Point 3)

Go south of Tennessee and you won't have much trouble finding entire counties where there isn't a single black person to be found.  The average white person carries a gun and will shoot if they see a black person.  One of these people is a second-cousin of mine, so I know.  But with respect to Obama, you can bet your life that millions of republican voters didn't want Obama in office simply because he's black.

My wording above was slightly ambiguous - obviously I didn't mean to imply most Americans were racist.  I said at least one of the three categories.  That said, categories 2 and 3 really aren't even necessary to make my point.  99% of the country doesn't have a clue of who controls their money, and that's all that really needs to be stated.


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Posted: 02 Aug 11, 00:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

GratefulFan wrote:

"I certainly understand the intellectual arguments against it and the arguments that urge caution, and they are not without some merit.  Just because the public discourse tends to absurd oversimplifications like 'death panels' and other nonsense doesn't mean there isn't a discussion to be had."

Very fair point.  But there is one simple solution - if the public health care system was all it could be, there would be no need to seek alternatives in the private sector.  But as long as there are right-wing politicians, they will always have friends in private enterprise who need money before poor people need health care.

"It's their job to be partisan, and it's our job as voters to shape our respective nations by voting the best and worst ideas from both sides in and out over time."

True.  But the best ideas are hard to find, as they are usually nowhere near mainstream media outlets.


"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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