Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Is anyone else a little skeptical about the new album?

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TyphoonTip user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 00:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I can't get past the feeling that it's just scraping the barrel, and tarting things up that were probably abandoned for very good reasons. It's not that I'm against having the material released, far from it. I just don't particularly like the idea of 2 members of a once great band polishing turds and presenting them as a genuine album release.

I'd much prefer to them to release the tracks 'as is'. A moment in time representing how the tracks sounded, albeit unfinished, when Queen was real functioning unit.

Keeping in mind, I'm not a big fan of Made In (Synth pad) Heaven. However there's no doubt that album had genuine justification for being completed. There is a lot of evidence from multiple sources that Freddie wanted the remaining members to complete it. Thus by giving his blessing, although in my eyes not a real Queen album, it does feel 'somewhat' authentic.

I don't feel the same can be said for the forthcoming record. There's been not evidence presented that Freddie would have wanted to have these tracks released. I would argue, the fact that they weren't released is considerable evidence to the contrary.

I guess my point is, when Queen were a functioning four piece, these tracks were not considered ready for release, for whatever reason. So why should I be suddenly convinced that they now 'right to go' when only 50% of the band worked on them, ....and in particular Freddie had not opportunity to veto (presumably John still does? Who knows.).

This '...we know what Freddie would have wanted' business just doesn't wash on this one for mine.

And, of course, John's lack of involvement IMO also leaves a sizable dint the credibility of this project.

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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 00:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I can see your point regarding the unreleased 'scraps', but john's lack of involvement isn't one of the reasons it lacks credibility. There have been lots of 'credible' events (rock n roll hall of fame, Freddie's 65th charity event, days of our lives doc etc...) that don't lose credibility because he chose not to be involved - he's retired, and we will never see/here from him again, alas.

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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 01:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I hope they stop paying tribute to themselves. In the QPR album, the song "Still burnin" all of a suddent had We will Rock you in. Please, please please. No clips of older songs unless necessary. Oh and leave that pedophile off the album please. MJ does not to be on it

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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 01:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

One off live events and documentaries can't be compared to an album of music that presumably will bare the name Queen.

I'm well aware that this part of my case feeds back into the old Paul Rodgers argument, of which it seems some opinions will never meet. But Queen's stock in trade, along with touring, was making albums. And as we've been told adnauseum, that process involved the 4 of them arguing empassionedly until compromises/agreements could be reached.

In my opinion that process defined a Queen album, indeed it defined Queen. Now it's a shame that can't happen anymore, it really is. But anything short of that, just isn't Queen.

I'm not dismissing it just because John's not involved, because who's to say Brian and Roger aren't still capable of making great music. But I just think Brian + Roger + Freddie's scraps - John, does not equal  Queen.

Like I said, If they indend to release demo/unfinished material, my personal opinion is it would be better served in a 'Anthology' type format, warts and all, and most importantly without pretension.

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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 08:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm a lot skeptical, if any MJ stuff is going to be on it.  Couldn't give two fucks about him and I'm glad he's dead.


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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 10:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well I see it this way - wait and see. It can be really GREAT, but also really TERRIBLE.

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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 11:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well, I think it depends on what the new album is. People seem to assume that it will be a proper studio release - MIH-style. But maybe they will simply release a low-key lost-tracks album, with no pretence to be a "new Queen album" whatsoever? I know, it doesn't sound plausible, but I think that's the only way it could work. Otherwise, let's get ready for another portion of crap.

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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 12:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It'll be nothing more than another load of over-produced rubbish featuring a bunch of scraps tweaked and tuned to meet commercial requirements for Island who obviously managed to get an agreement for an album of original material when negotiating terms with that wanker Beachey-Boy.

Any suvriving Queen archive material featuring Freddie's input should be released as a rarities collection and marketed accordingly.


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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 12:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Has this actually been confirmed as a release?

An album of demos will be held to a different standard than a Made in heaven Part II. With demos there's a lot of critcal room to allow for mistakes, incomplete tracks, off key singing and terrible lyrics (e.g. Feel Like). However, if they try to turn these demos into proper songs not only will the album face comparisons to Made in heaven, it will also face the inevitable comparisons with the original Queen albums/line-up. And if the latter, can anyone really say they trust Brian and Roger's artisitic judgement these days? They haven't tried anything daring since 46664, which was musically interesting, but with terrible lyrics.

Worst case scenario is that they complete the songs with new lyrics by Ben Elton, and featuring new music and vocals from the cast of WWRY :)


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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 13:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Some very good points have been make (except for the indecent remarks about Michael Jackson).  Also keep this in mind; sometimes songs are scrapped because 1:  That particular piece didn't flow with the overall feel of the album (arguable point I know) or 2:  It was a last minute idea with no time to complete it.  So I am very open-minded about these songs and breathing new life into something old and forgotten is not a bad thing in my opinion.  Let's face it, those negative nellies out there know damn well they are going to buy it.


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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 13:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Rotwang wrote: Some very good points have been make (except for the indecent remarks about Michael Jackson).  Also keep this in mind; sometimes songs arescrapped because 1:  That particular piece didn't flow with the overall feel of the album (arguable point I know) or 2:  It was a last minute idea with no time to complete it.  So I am very open-minded about these songs and breathing new life into something old and forgotten is not a bad thing in my opinion.  Let's face it, those negative nellies out there know damn well they are going to buy it.

4: Every Queen member wanted one or two of their songs on the album so they had to leave some Mercury Compositions in the barrel


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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 14:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Songs might be scrapped for a number of reasons, a lot of the demos weve heard sound good to me at least. Presumably there are other things we have not heard and other versions of that which we have.

I can understand the critiscism, but also in some ways I dont think its wrong finishing songs that have been left half- or close to-finished, might be a better alternative than just leaving them. Tying up the loose ends sort of. Rolling stones and bruce springsteen have done this in recent years to some acclaim. If it comes out and its good, I will be really excited anyway.

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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 15:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The fact remains that we don't know what they've got to work on.  We are assuming that all there is are the leaked demos we've all heard, and I agree, many of them are not worth releasing, but we don't know what else they have found in the archives.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Feelings Feelings, on the NOTW Remaster was a previously unheard take, so perhaps we should reserve judgement until the product is released, or, at least, we know more about it.

I too hope that the MJ tracks will be released separately, and not as part of a 'new' album, but I'm guessing that these will be needed to bolster the release, and will therefore be included.  This is going to be more fragmented than MIH, but I think could still be an interesting release - and let's face it, even if we slag it off, we'll all still buy it.

What I think would be a much better project, though, would be for Brian and Roger to do something together, on their own.  They are both competent songwriters and singers, and 'The May & Taylor Group' would hold much more credibility for me than another rehashed 'not-quite-Queen' effort.  They could get who they liked in on bass (Neil Murray?), and could even have a couple of guest vocalists, but could get away with it simply by not calling it 'Queen'.


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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 16:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Firstly I DO see Made In Heaven as an offical Queen album, how can it not be?? Secondly any new 'Queen' release will be accepted with an open mind and I will make my own judgment after I have heard it. I really cannot understand so much negativity before anyone even knows whats going to be on it! I know the remasters were a disappointment but at least lets see whats going to be on it before all the speculation about how good/bad its going to be.

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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 17:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Squidgy wrote: Firstly I DO see Made In Heaven as an offical Queen album, how can it not be?? Secondly any new 'Queen' release will be accepted with an open mind and I will make my own judgment after I have heard it. I really cannot understand so much negativity before anyone even knows whats going to be on it! I know the remasters were a disappointment but at least lets see whats going to be on it before all the speculation about how good/bad its going to be.


THANK YOU!!... someone said it!..

And firstly, i'm certain that a great part of the reason they went back to the old ideas was because of people bitching about the quality of their work afterward.

Hmm... maybe they realized it? I dunno... I've always loved the band members' solo albums. Funnily enough, i like most of the other gents' solo stuff much more than MR BAD GUY.... but Barcelona is another story.... that album is simply glorious.

...Yet i do empathize a bit. Maybe you forum people are just suffering from PTCRSD?

(Post-Traumatic-Cosmos-Rocks-Stress-Disorder)

Did the initial announcement/rumor meet your body with fatigue... fear, apprehension, a need to cover your ears and a disdain for all things involving Chuck Norris? (On the real, all his movies are crap excluding MIA 1,2,3 [for BAD movie + fun status]....and the Bruce Lee flick he was in)

Maybe this is the real source of your dillema?

BUt then again... i read a lot of hate for MIH so.... go figure... to each their own. I have a feeling it will only strengthen the credit  of the band :)


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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 18:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I just sincerely hope that they just don't pay tribute to themselves by putting in clips from old songs. On The Cosmos Rocks, the "We Will Rock You" beat appeared in "Still Burnin'". It was cheezy and it makes me skip to the next track. So please guys, don't do that on the new album. If you are going to go to the tribute to old songs route, tehn just get a Freddie soundalike and go on a neverending nostagia tour. 
I am so excited about this, but I just hope it's done right...and without self-tributes

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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 18:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Of course most people who post here will say they're skeptical. QZ is all about saying how Roger and Brian are screwing things up and sullying their legacy anymore. The real answer is their legacy already is, and no amount of The Cosmos Rocks or Made In Heavens or 5ive collaborations make any cut off of ANATO or any other album any worse.  

As for Zebonka saying he's glad Michael Jackson is dead, well, you get numb to those sort of things when you read such Serious Discussion, right?


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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 20:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

3 quick points:

1) The '...just wait and see' argument.
Sure, although my hopes aren't high, I'm not totally passing judgement on it. I haven't heard it yet! But this is completely missing the point! If you read my orginal post, the concerns I have are to do with the PREMISE of the project.

2) This '...Haha, what about Made in Heaven, it's the same thing, isn't it?".
Well, no it isn't. I addressed that in my OP.

3) If you're going to write a post denouncing what I've said, fine. No problem. Not everyone agrees. But please, can you at least read what I've said first.

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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 20:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



TyphoonTip wrote: 3 quick points:

1) The '...just wait and see' argument.
Sure, although my hopes aren't high, I'm not totally passing judgement on it. I haven't heardit yet! But this is completely missing the point! If you read my orginal post, the concerns I have are to do with the PREMISE of the project.

2) This '...Haha, what about Made in Heaven, it's the same thing, isn't it?".
Well, no it isn't. I addressed that in my OP.

3) If you're going to write a post denouncing what I've said, fine. No problem. Not everyone agrees. But please, can you at least read what I've said first.


I did no denouncing... it's just better to.... ah... i'd be eating those words after the COSMOS ROCKS...

i was gonna say it's better to think positive.. haha.. nvm.

But, yes... as for "credibility"... oh well... they'll be glossened up demos. Of course MIH had the 4's blessing. And yes.... it would be lacking a GREAT GREAT voice in the band... JOHN DEACON (his sense of melody IS another voice)

yeah, they were well presented arguments... but I AS A FAN would not strike down a chance of hearing the "true" band... recording something...

Of course people had problems with QPR... oh well... I was one of em... and look what happened.... i missed my chance to see em live. (it would have been an arm and a leg but i really SHOULD HAVE GONE)...

arrgh.


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Posted: 21 Nov 11, 21:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

All I am saying is there's no room, not really, for a nuanced discussion here of expressing skepticism/ambivalence whatever it is Brian and Roger are going to put together as a collection of songs, since there's just so many haters.  And to say in the original post you think Made in Heaven is different, fair enough; the dis on "synth pads," whatever that might mean, undercuts the point.  

For what it's worth: I do wonder if Freddie had a sit-down with QP et al and had a track-by-track approval of what would appear on the album(s) after Innuendo. We live in an age, like it or not, where unfinished/demoed recordings can be brought to completion, or an approximation thereof.  Granted, Queen doesn't have a Smile-type album up its sleeve that needs to see the light of day. The chance to see some rough recordings or demos or Michael Jackson duets brought to light with Roger and Brian at the helm seems a completely reasonable thing for members of a rock band to do.


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