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greaserkat user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 08 Dec 11, 13:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

What are the general comments you hear in your part of the world when you learn bout school shootings that occur here in the US?  I ask this because there has been a second school shooting at Virginia Tech this morning after the first one that occured a couple years ago.  I don't recall hearing of school shootings being that prominant in Europe or Canada, our friendly neighbor, although I am not saying that school shootings do not occur anywhere else in the world. Here is the link

http://news.yahoo.com/virginia-tech-locked-down-two-killed-including-police-182138357.html


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Posted: 09 Dec 11, 01:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The rest of the civilized world doesn't have as many shootings as the US because you can't buy a gun at the corner store.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#United_States

Since you asked, my part of the world generally pities you and your "right to bear arms."  We just watch the news, shake our heads, and move on with our comparatively safer lives.

My sympathies to those directly affected.


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Posted: 09 Dec 11, 07:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Here in Scotland, we had the Dunblane massacre in 1996, where the lives of 16 children and 1 teacher were taken.

http://en.wikipedia.org:80/wiki/Dunblane_massacre

As with all these types of events, it doesnt matter what country it has happened in, it will always be a despicable act inflicted upon innocent people. My sympathies go to them.


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Posted: 09 Dec 11, 22:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The only 2 shootings I remember that occurred in Montreal were the Dawson shooting in 2006 and Polytechnique in 1989.


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Posted: 11 Dec 11, 13:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

We've had two school shootings here in Finland, the Jokela school shooting in 2007, and one at Kauhajoki in 2008.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jokela_school_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kauhajoki_school_shooting

As expected, a public debate over gun legislation followed, however, no stricter gun laws were passed. I suppose after having our own school shootings, there may have been a slight shift in discourse when it comes to reporting US shooting incidents. We are hardly in a position to publish page long critical essays on US gun legislation, when in our own country any half-sane person can obtain a hand-gun legally (although not from a corner store!) and proceed to perform a massacre.


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Posted: 11 Dec 11, 13:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

People in Holland tend to say "well that's America for ya". In fact, most uneducated Dutchmen tend to see Americans as a horde of medieval convicts with a nuclear arsenal living in a continent-wide blend of Texas and New York City, with M-16s sold on every street corner.

And America itself isn't doing that much to help discredit this picture.


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Posted: 12 Dec 11, 13:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

FACTS:

All crimes commited with hand guns are legitimately purchased firearms,,,

If your country doesn't have that second amendment right, then you have no way of obtaining a gun.

Why can't we Americans "Smarten-up" and get rid of that right...  Then all these shootings would never happen!

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Posted: 12 Dec 11, 14:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/12/hollywood-shooting-video-gunman.html

Here's another story that occured last week, this time here in Southern California.  The gunman was in the middle of the street shooting at cars that went by at close range.  

I do not comprehend why people walk around with guns strapped to their belts when they go to a restaurant or to a mall in some Southern California cities where it is legal to do so.  I know it's your right to own a gun, but why do you have to flaunt it in the faces of many people who can confuse you as someone who might be trying to rob a store and wind up finding yourself in trouble by accident.


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Posted: 12 Dec 11, 16:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

There are all kinds of things argued in support of guns in the US- and argued by really bright people too : constitutional arguments, anecdotal arguments, appeals to emotion, statistics bent this way and that.  None of them ever seem to acknowledge that there's a heavy cost.  Americans in the aggregate are more likely to die by gun at rates at least triple that of any other similar society.  If you remove suicides and accidents and leave only homicides the difference in rates is closer to a magnitude at least.  And those are the easy measurements.  How do you qualify and quantify the more subtle effects on a society that on the gun issue runs on completely normalized fear, mistrust and aggression, but thinks it's running on principles of freedom, individual rights and self sufficiency?  In Canada you'll get the same weapons charges for carrying a plastic imitation handgun as you will for carrying the real thing locked and loaded.  That's because it's not just about the actual danger to society, but the perception of that danger and the fear and accommodations it engenders.

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Posted: 12 Dec 11, 16:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



MadTheSwine73 wrote: The only 2 shootings I remember that occurred in Montreal were the Dawson shooting in 2006 and Polytechnique in 1989.

Concordia in the early 90's too.

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Posted: 12 Dec 11, 19:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Micrówave wrote: FACTS:

All crimes commited with hand guns are legitimately purchased firearms,,,

If your country doesn't have that second amendment right, then you have no way of obtaining a gun.

Why can't we Americans "Smarten-up" and get rid of that right...  Then all these shootings would never happen!


I actually think that's one of the reasons no one would ever "invade" "America"... as much as the pundits and Self servers wish to have others believe.

There are far too many guns in the possession of the populace... also the vast terrain.

If anything, other routes would be chosen. So in a perverted way, the thing that destroyed the old world (before the Natives Discovered Ships on the coast filled with greedy, ignorant opportunists, triumphantly and defyingly preaching a separation from the old land to another, and still insisting on naming their towns just as in the old)

..turns out the guns that destroyed the old world, helped serve the new one. (despite american ineptitude and non-civillian gullibilty.

I think it's fair to say the way these elected heads run things into the ground and send business overseas while blaming the very constituents who elect them, and the illegals that run all the basest "job opportunities" (when was the last time you saw a white guy fight to work in the fields picking strawberries?) ... that very soon there may be a parting with the Administrative and the military.

Just sayyyin...

If they had any sense (the military) they'd have a disaffection growing. But they don't. One serves the needs of the other.

Maybe they'll bring back the old English tradition of poor houses.

That'd be a blessing...

It's been a long time since anyone's written a wonderful true american novel.

Some Dickensian times would be wonderful. Think of the culture!


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Posted: 13 Dec 11, 20:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



GratefulFan wrote:


MadTheSwine73 wrote: The only 2 shootings I remember that occurred in Montreal were the Dawson shooting in 2006 and Polytechnique in 1989.

Concordia in the early 90's too.


Ah. Didn't know about that. Thanks for it.


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Posted: 14 Dec 11, 12:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



GratefulFan wrote: There are all kinds of things argued in support of guns in the US- and argued by really bright people too : constitutional arguments, anecdotal arguments, appeals to emotion, statistics bent this way and that.  None of them ever seem to acknowledge that there's a heavy cost.  Americans in the aggregate are more likely to die by gun at rates at least triple that of any other similar society.  If you remove suicides and accidents and leave only homicides the difference in rates is closer to a magnitude at least.  And those are the easy measurements.  How do you qualify and quantify the more subtle effects on a society that on the gun issue runs on completely normalized fear, mistrust and aggression, but thinks it's running on principles of freedom, individual rights and self sufficiency?  In Canada you'll get the same weapons charges for carrying a plastic imitation handgun as you will for carrying the real thing locked and loaded.  That's because it's not just about the actual danger to society, but the perception of that danger and the fear and accommodations it engenders.


Just because Americans have the right to bear arms is not the reason for the high death rates.   There are LOTS of things that are much more easy to obtain in America and die from.

There is no Right To Bear Crack, yet we have the highest death rate for Crackheads.
There is no Right To Bear Cancer Of The Anus, but we have the second highest death rate for Anal Cancer
There is no Right To Go Thuggin, but we have the most gang members per capita
There is no Right To Make Slapping Noises in the Penn State Shower Room, but we have that too.

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Posted: 19 Dec 11, 10:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's the combination of a proliferation of guns and a society that more than most glorifies violence and armed resistance.   Take matt z's post. In most first world peacetime countries (particularly those sitting on nuclear arsenals) citizens contemplating the wisdom of an armed citizenry to guard against being invaded and fretting about military coup d'etats would be considered fringe.  In the US that's not too far off mainstream.  I was reading a forum the other day called 'Defensive Carry' for those who carry handguns, concealed or otherwise.  The top thread of the moment was people sharing their tips for seating in restaurants to avoid, I don't know, being shot to death over spinach dip or whatever.   That cold weight on their hip that makes them feel 'safe' has a big, big cost in fear, paranoia and distorted risk assessment.   And they're oblivious.  Armed and oblivious.  Somebody should put that on a bumper sticker.